Who's better Schaub or A Smith?

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by mussop

I hate these narrow minded type of questions. Do you think Schaub is more mobile than Yates? That's all he was trying to say. Jeeesh use a little bit of common sense.

It isn't narrow minded at all. It is reality you don't want to examine. More athletic, more mobile whatever doesn't mean better period or even better at avoiding pressure. Yates sacked 11.2% of the time he dropped back. Schaub sacked 5.4%.

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by 2012Champs

Is that why Yates took as many sacks as Schuab last year?

I'd imagine that Yates took as many sacks as Schaub last year because Yates was a rookie. He was faster than Schaub but less experienced so he didn't feel the pressure coming as well as Schaub and he took longer to find the open man. He did however extend plays and keep drives alive with his legs on a number of occaissions.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by 2012Champs

Just because Yates is our backup and Kap was theirs in no way suggest if Jim was here he would be starting Yates. Yates is not a starter in this league

& neither was Kaepernick.

Maybe my glasses are rose colored, but right now I don't see much difference between Kap & Yate's first three or four starts. They've both made plays, they've both screwed the pooch....

Yates may be a little less athletic, but we have no idea how Kubiak would use him if Schaub's ego wasn't in the way.

That's not to say I think Yates should be starting, but if I had to chose Yates or Alex Smith to be our starter, I'm going with the Tarheel.

For many of the same reasons that has been reasoned that Smith is better than Schaub..... Yates is as athletic if not more than Smith, has a stronger arm & more snap imo.

[2012Champs]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

It isn't narrow minded at all. It is reality you don't want to examine. More athletic, more mobile whatever doesn't mean better period or even better at avoiding pressure. Yates sacked 11.2% of the time he dropped back. Schaub sacked 5.4%.

yates did have a single run for 18-25 yards or something that Matt would have never pulled off but one play doesnt make a trend

[amazing80]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

It isn't narrow minded at all. It is reality you don't want to examine. More athletic, more mobile whatever doesn't mean better period or even better at avoiding pressure. Yates sacked 11.2% of the time he dropped back. Schaub sacked 5.4%.

Ummm, come on, you can't seriously say these are both apples and compare their juicy flavor, because frankly they are not the same.

TJ played 4 of the last 5 regular season games without Andre Johnson, he got 0 reps prior to him taking over. He had no idea what NFL game speed looked like and frankly he was not 100% ready to take over.

That doesn't mean Matt is more capable of avoiding rushers or anything, it means he is USE TO the pressure and game speed. Something Yates will get better at and with his better mobility he will actually do things Schaub cannot do, like scramble for a couple first downs a game, instead of throwing it away or throwing it short on 3rd down boot legs, he can actually run ahead for a couple yards to pick it up. Matt is not capable of doing that and if you forgot how much more athletic Yates is than Schaub, I suggest you look at this to refresh your memory

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDCPrSn6YL0

And thats the game HE HAD ANDRE

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

1st off David Carr & Sage still looked like garbage have you forgotten the rosencopter game?....

Without Sage, we had no chance in that game. Sage was making plays. Extending plays, finding receivers, delivering the ball on time.

Had it not been for the copter thing, that would have been a shining moment in Sage's career. Poor decision on his part, but he was putting it all on the line to win that game for me & you.

But... alas, now everybody wants us to play conservative.. no, wait a minute.

[2012Champs]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

I'd imagine that Yates took as many sacks as Schaub last year because Yates was a rookie. He was faster than Schaub but less experienced so he didn't feel the pressure coming as well as Schaub and he took longer to find the open man. He did however extend plays and keep drives alive with his legs on a number of occaissions.

So it seems that having better legs and a better arm doesnt equal less sacks or better play. Well let me have the slower guy with a weaker arm that has better results

[amazing80]

Originally Posted by 2012Champs

So it seems that having better legs and a better arm doesnt equal less sacks or better play. Well let me have the slower weaker arm that has better results

Maybe you missed the part where he said YATES WAS A ROOKIE HENCE THE MORE SACKS

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by amazing80

That doesn't mean Matt is more capable of avoiding rushers or anything,

He didn't suggest Matt was more capable. He said Matt was better at it. He didn't give the reasoning, but you pretty much got it.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

It isn't narrow minded at all. It is reality you don't want to examine. More athletic, more mobile whatever doesn't mean better period or even better at avoiding pressure. Yates sacked 11.2% of the time he dropped back. Schaub sacked 5.4%.

You are a stat junky. Do those stats tell how many of those times they dropped back that there was actually pressure? Nope. Do those stats tell what percentage of the time that there was pressure that the QB was able to avoid it? Nope. C'mon man you're supposed to be smarter than this, you're a freaking lawyer for gods sake.

I get what you're saying and you're right but stop with the worthless STAT approach. Yes being more mobile doesn't necessarily mean you are goi g to be better at avoiding sacks. It doesn't mean you will have a better pocket presence or that you will even know how to use those abilities to extend plays. But not having any mobility to the extent that Schaubs at defiantly doesn't allow him to extend plays or improvise at all. When is the last time ou seen Matt go through his progressions and no one was open and tucks the ball and gets ANY positive plays with his mobility? It's ridiculous how quick he throws the ball away several times a game even when there is obvious openings in the defense.

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by 2012Champs

So it seems that having better legs and a better arm doesnt equal less sacks or better play. Well let me have the slower guy with a weaker arm that has better results

Originally Posted by amazing80

Maybe you missed the part where he said YATES WAS A ROOKIE HENCE THE MORE SACKS

Yeah, you kinda glossed over the most important part of the answer there 2012Champs.

Now if you could get a guy who had Schaub's football IQ and experience with better wheels (Yates quality or better) then you would be cooking with fire.

[Playoffs]

Originally Posted by DexmanC

Pockets are broken against good d-lines. When this happens, and Schaub is under center, the play is OVER...

I remember Dr. CND saying there was no brace that could protect Schaub from another lisfranc injury...

I wonder if the Dr.s told Matt "one more arch stomp and your career is likely over"??? Or if that is even the case? Doc?

I ask because Matt looked like he was playing "touch me not" during the particularly bad day the O-Line was having.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by Playoffs

I remember Dr. CND saying there was no brace that could protect Schaub from another lisfranc injury...

I wonder if the Dr.s told Matt "one more arch stomp and your career is likely over"??? Or if that is even the case? Doc?

I ask because Matt looked like he was playing "touch me not" during the particularly bad day the O-Line was having.

That's a good question.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by mussop

You are a stat junky. Do those stats tell how many of those times they dropped back that there was actually pressure? Nope. Do those stats tell what percentage of the time that there was pressure that the QB was able to avoid it? Nope.

Spare me your BS I can think of lots of unanswerable questions routine. Frankly it is particularly lame in this context - same OL so absolutely no reason to believe they were suddenly allowing a greater pass rush. My eyes tell me Schaub with his physical ability limitations is better at avoiding pressure than Yates - not on individual plays, yes Yates will sometimes pull something out which Schaub could not, but over the course of a game or season). Once again, the stats are there as a confirmation.

Schaub definitely has limitations but this across the board bashing has become freaking ridiculous.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by mussop

You are a stat junky. Do those stats tell how many of those times they dropped back that there was actually pressure? Nope. Do those stats tell what percentage of the time that there was pressure that the QB was able to avoid it? Nope. C'mon man you're supposed to be smarter than this, you're a freaking lawyer for gods sake.

Depends on how long he's been doing it. If he's been doing it for 2 or 3 years, then I have to assume his ability to judge & beat pressure is there. Guys who don't handle pressure well will not put up Matt Schaub's numbers for 6 years.

Guys who don't get a chance in this QB hungry league don't get a chance for a reason.

[2012Champs]

Originally Posted by amazing80

Ummm, come on, you can't seriously say these are both apples and compare their juicy flavor, because frankly they are not the same.

TJ played 4 of the last 5 regular season games without Andre Johnson, he got 0 reps prior to him taking over. He had no idea what NFL game speed looked like and frankly he was not 100% ready to take over.

That doesn't mean Matt is more capable of avoiding rushers or anything, it means he is USE TO the pressure and game speed. Something Yates will get better at and with his better mobility he will actually do things Schaub cannot do, like scramble for a couple first downs a game, instead of throwing it away or throwing it short on 3rd down boot legs, he can actually run ahead for a couple yards to pick it up. Matt is not capable of doing that and if you forgot how much more athletic Yates is than Schaub, I suggest you look at this to refresh your memory

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDCPrSn6YL0

And thats the game HE HAD ANDRE

I think Matt played without dre as well but somehow Matt's ppg avg didnt fall by 10

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by mussop

You are a stat junky. Do those stats tell how many of those times they dropped back that there was actually pressure? Nope. Do those stats tell what percentage of the time that there was pressure that the QB was able to avoid it? Nope. C'mon man you're supposed to be smarter than this, you're a freaking lawyer for gods sake.

I get what you're saying and you're right but stop with the worthless STAT approach. Yes being more mobile doesn't necessarily mean you are goi g to be better at avoiding sacks. It doesn't mean you will have a better pocket presence or that you will even know how to use those abilities to extend plays. But not having any mobility to the extent that Schaubs at defiantly doesn't allow him to extend plays or improvise at all. When is the last time ou seen Matt go through his progressions and no one was open and tucks the ball and gets ANY positive plays with his mobility? It's ridiculous how quick he throws the ball away several times a game even when there is obvious openings in the defense.

I really am wondering if we watch the same games & you guys need to make up your minds. 1 guy's talking about mobility as in extending plays, another's talking about him tucking and running type mobility. If it extending plays with his mobility, Schaub routinely does this on bootlegs once he realizes he cannot go deep.
matter fact one of my biggest criticisms of him is that he likes to hold on to the ball too long going through his progressions off of those bootlegs and just doesn't throw it away even when someone's got him in their grasp....See the Detroit game where Suh should've been called for a horsecollar as schaub's releasing the ball...that play by definition is him extending a play b/c he had to side-step to get it off.

he also routinely steps into the pocket to extend plays once pressure comes from the outside.....He does this just fine when he's in the shotgun, but yes he does have issues doing that when he's got to come from under center. Again, see the detroit game and the broncos game this year...There are number of plays where he does just this in those games and really throughout the season.

just b/c he's not tucking and running doesn't mean that the guy is this immobile statue back there and he's not capable of making a play. he's not that running guy..most qb's aren't that guy.

[ChampionTexan]

I think we need to stop talking about whether he's better than Alex Smith, and start talking about whether he deserves to be named to the AFC Pro Bowl team.

[scourge]

Originally Posted by mussop

Let the games begin.

The case for Smith -

Smith led the 49ers to within a couple of plays from the Super Bowl. Smith threw only five interceptions all season (none in the playoffs) and finished in the top 10 in QB rating 2011.

This season Smith he was third in QB rating, behind Manning and Aaron Rodgers before he got injured and replaced. In his last full game he was 18-of-19 with three TDs setting an NFL record with a 94.7 completion percentage for a quarterback with a minimum of 15 attempts. He was named NFC Offensive Player of the Week for the first time two days later.. Before he was knocked out of the game against St. Louis, he was 7-of-8 with a TD and a passer rating of 143.8. Three of his five interceptions this season came in one game -- against the New York Giants, the defending Super Bowl champs. In fact he is 20-6-1 in the games he's started for Harbaugh.

Here's something interesting for all you STAT lovers. Smith owns a passer rating of 104.1, less than a point behind Aaron Rodgers (104.7) and Robert Griffin III (104.2).

The problem is He's ineligible for the passing rating crown and needs another seven attempts to climb back into the race. Smith also can improve upon his 70 percent completion rate and break Drew Brees' record (71.2) from a season ago if he completes nine of nine passes in the next game.

Not bad for a guy most around here say doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Schaub.

While I'm not saying I'd definitely take Alex over Matt, no one seems to care(or maybe know) that there was a good reason Smith did so poorly in the years leading up to playing for Harbaugh. In 8 seasons he has had 7 different offensive coordinators, and 3 head coaches. Few QB's could deal with that when just coming into the league and still put up amazing numbers. That's not the only reason he's played as he did in the past, but that is absolutely one of the major factors.

It's understandable that people want to compare him to Rodgers since they were both in the '05 draft, but had it went the other way instead, Rodgers wouldn't be lighting it up like he is now. Honestly, Alex doesn't have the same skillset as Aaron, so I don't think he would have put up the same stats as Aaron. But Smith definitely would have at least got to his current level of playing earlier in his career.

Having said all that, I would probably take Matt over Alex. However, if the Texans in the offseason were to drop Matt in favor of Alex it wouldn't give me heartburn either. I think Alex is still coachable, and Kubiak would be the right coach for him, just like Harbaugh is... Those who are formerly quarterbacks themselves.

[Thorn]

Originally Posted by ChampionTexan

I think we need to stop talking about whether he's better than Alex Smith, and start talking about whether he deserves to be named to the AFC Pro Bowl team.

I was really surprised when I saw that. I wouldn't have voted for him. Oh yeah, I didn't.