Who's better Schaub or A Smith?

[mussop]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

-His own coach benched him after his marvelous 20-6 record you keep touting

-As #1 overall pick 8 years in, he still hasn't had a 20 TD passing year ...that's basically a prequisite for being at least average

- Despite his big arm and mobility he doesn't throw the ball deep and he doesn't run around a whole lot...he doesn't even move around the pocket very well.

Those are about as legit as you trying to pass your opinion off about schaub as fact.

Wow I think this is proof enough that you have no clue what you are talking about. The only one of those that has any relevance in this debate is that he hasn't thrown 20 TD's in a season. Still with him at the helm they tied for 11th place in ppg last year with ......drum roll pleazzzze.... The Houston texans and the GREAT Matt Schaub. This year they were on pace to avg 23.5 ppg before he got hurt. And he was on pace to throw 25 TD's.

And in comparison Schaub in his first two years under Kubiak threw 9TD's and 15tD's.

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by mussop

Smith was replaced because Harbaugh wasn't content with a game manager. He, like many of the fans here, know the potential his offense have with a more physically gifted QB. He got the opportunity to play one and he did well so he rolled the dice and is sticking with the guy. Don't think for a minute that if he starts doing bad that he won't throw Smith back in there.

There is no reason to think there was a trust issue except that it fits your argument. Throughout the year Harbaugh said time and time again that he had faith in Smith. Google it, there are many many articles on it.


And this nonsense about the offense looking so much better with Kolin this year than it did last year, care to show a shred of evidence to the contrary or should we just take your word for it?

yeah, he'd go back to him...............b/c he'd have no damn choice to!


& we all know what coaches say out in the press is the truth and nothing but the truth.... Watch other games besides the texans man & stop being obtuse. harbaugh's the same guy who said "we're gonna go with the hot hand" and then a few days later named kapernick the starter...Well, since you brought the stat up, wouldn't you as a coach think that a guy who's 20-6 in his last few games is about as hot as you can get? Apparently harbaugh didn't think it was a enough.

& what you're saying just proves my point. After a year of giving him an opportunity to prove him wrong, he knew that he could never trust Smith to open his offense up the way kap has Plus, at the end of the day...Smith isn't his guy, kap is.


And if you've been watching them you can clearly see from an explosive play standpoint, they are much better. They actually throw the ball downfield much more effectively. They weren't doing that with Smith partly b/c Smith was so damn scared of making a mistake...and b/c harbs didn't trust him; Its why they lost the Giants game..they were just sitting on the short stuff and daring Smith to throw it deeper.

They've been moving the ball with much more ease since kap has been in & what he was able to do against the Bears, Patriots and Saints running and passing is better than anything Smith did in the offense in almost 2 years.

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by mussop

Wow I think this is proof enough that you have no clue what you are talking about. The only one of those that has any relevance in this debate is that he hasn't thrown 20 TD's in a season. Still with him at the helm they tied for 11th place in ppg last year with ......drum roll pleazzzze.... The Houston texans and the GREAT Matt Schaub. This year they were on pace to avg 23.5 ppg before he got hurt. And he was on pace to throw 25 TD's.

And in comparison Schaub in his first two years under Kubiak threw 9TD's and 15tD's.

I'll tell you what, why don't you go pose your thread question to any serious football fan & see what kind of responses you get back.....If the majority of them don't or like Dream Team has already pointed out to his fellow 9er fans then you might be on to something....until then, i'll just leave you to your own devices homie.

[Playoffs]

Originally Posted by mussop

Smith was replaced because Harbaugh wasn't content with a game manager...

I think Harbaugh grew tired of managing Smith by limiting the playbook to low risk passing options. Coach did a great job of maximizing what was previously a marginal QB.

Now, you might be able to say that Kubiak has been doing the same thing with Schaub -- managing his shortcomings. I can buy that. I think Gary's forte is maximizing QB play.

But the evidence we have is Smith was a disappointment before Harbaugh. And he's likely to be same again if given broader decision-making choices.

I wouldn't mind upgrading our QB position. But let's really upgrade it, not move sideways or down.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

yeah, he'd go back to him...............b/c he'd have no damn choice to!


& we all know what coaches say out in the press is the truth and nothing but the truth.... Watch other games besides the texans man & stop being obtuse. harbaugh's the same guy who said "we're gonna go with the hot hand" and then a few days later named kapernick the starter...Well, since you brought the stat up, wouldn't you as a coach think that a guy who's 20-6 in his last few games is about as hot as you can get? Apparently harbaugh didn't think it was a enough.

& what you're saying just proves my point. After a year of giving him an opportunity to prove him wrong, he knew that he could never trust Smith to open his offense up the way kap has Plus, at the end of the day...Smith isn't his guy, kap is.


And if you've been watching them you can clearly see from an explosive play standpoint, they are much better. They actually throw the ball downfield much more effectively. They weren't doing that with Smith partly b/c Smith was so damn scared of making a mistake...and b/c harbs didn't trust him; Its why they lost the Giants game..they were just sitting on the short stuff and daring Smith to throw it deeper.

They've been moving the ball with much more ease since kap has been in & what he was able to do against the Bears, Patriots and Saints running and passing is better than anything Smith did in the offense in almost 2 years.

Typical Mr Tex it's right because it's my opinion no substance retort. couldn't decide which of these emoticons best described the way I feel after reading one of your post so I picked them all.

This is how I feel after reading one of your post.
This is what I should do instead of reading your responses.
This is what it feels like having a conversation with you.
This is what you sound like.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by Playoffs

I think Harbaugh grew tired of managing Smith by limiting the playbook to low risk passing options. Coach did a great job of maximizing what was previously a marginal QB.

Now, you might be able to say that Kubiak has been doing the same thing with Schaub -- managing his shortcomings. I can buy that. I think Gary's forte is maximizing QB play.

But the evidence we have is Smith was a disappointment before Harbaugh. And he's likely to be same again if given broader decision-making choices.

I wouldn't mind upgrading our QB position. But let's really upgrade it, not move sideways or down.

Again I never said I wanted Smith here. Just asked a simple question. Who is better. For some reason people here have an over inflated value on Schaub. Some even suggest he is just below the elites in talent and ability. Then the same people say A Smith is horrible. Just trying to get those people to see the light. It's like trying to talk sense to a west baptist church member.


And Kubiak has been doing the same thing. Smith and Schaub are the same type QB the only real difference is Smith has a stronger arm and is a little bit more mobile.

[DocBar]

Originally Posted by Playoffs

I think Harbaugh grew tired of managing Smith by limiting the playbook to low risk passing options. Coach did a great job of maximizing what was previously a marginal QB.

Now, you might be able to say that Kubiak has been doing the same thing with Schaub -- managing his shortcomings. I can buy that. I think Gary's forte is maximizing QB play.

But the evidence we have is Smith was a disappointment before Harbaugh. And he's likely to be same again if given broader decision-making choices.

I wouldn't mind upgrading our QB position. But let's really upgrade it, not move sideways or down.

With Smith, you have to remember he's had a lot of different systems thrown at him and a ton of turnover in the HC/OC positions. I'm not saying that's why he was so bad for so long, but it certainly contributed to his poor developement.

[Rey]

Harbaugh went with Kaepernick because that's his guy that he chose and he has better tools. His upside is greater.

Lets not act like Smith just flat out got benched. He got injured and Kap came in and played well and it was the perfect storm for Harbaugh to insert his guy.

[Corrosion]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

The bolded is actually a good point in his favor but people need to put things in perspective. He doesn't throw a ton of ints partly b/c coaches...even harbaugh, haven't trusted him to the throw the ball. 3 ints in 445 attempts sounds nice but its still not all that impressive when you consider that there are at least 2 rookie qbs this year who have or will have thrown the ball more times than he did all of last season....& that's excluding Andrew Luck (599 att).......i'm talking guys like Tannehill and Weeden. The average total attempts for the league is probably somewhere around 500-515 attempts. Reagardless of the regime that's been in place, noone trusts him to air it out.


& again, what it comes back to with him is that this guy was still benched by his coach a season after an NFC championship appearance. That imo says more than any stat or any particular fan's feeling are towards him. & if you've watched the 49ers offense since Kap has been at the helm and compare it to how it was last year under Smith, the difference is stark...they are way more explosive with kap..much more so than they've ever been under Smith.

Smith's Int numbers 1.1% in 2011 and 2.3% in 2012 - of passes attempted are far better than Lucks 3.0%.


He hasnt had to air it out in the past two seasons - he's had Frank Gore to lean on much like Schaub has had Foster .

I dont think one is better than the other , I believe they are equally flawed.

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by mussop

Again I never said I wanted Smith here. Just asked a simple question. Who is better. For some reason people here have an over inflated value on Schaub. Some even suggest he is just below the elites in talent and ability. Then the same people say A Smith is horrible. Just trying to get those people to see the light. It's like trying to talk sense to a west baptist church member.


And Kubiak has been doing the same thing. Smith and Schaub are the same type QB the only real difference is Smith has a stronger arm and is a little bit more mobile.

no one has an over inflated value of schaub...we just know....and always have known from the time he got here what he is. You and a few others undervalue him imo b/c he's not the prototype...& threads like these prove it b/c they weren't even in existence until this past week. This is who this guy has been from the jump...good, but he'll never be that guy. I'm all for finding a new qb that's better than schaub...but when you talk about better, you're basically talking about finding a guy that can be amongst the elite...& those kinds of players aren't exactly easy to find.

All i know is 1 thing Smith is definitely not that guy.

[DexmanC]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

no one has an over inflated value of schaub...we just know....and always have known from the time he got here what he is. You and a few others undervalue imo b/c he's not the prototype...This is who this guy has been from the jump...good, but he'll never be that
guy. I'm all for finding a new qb that's better than schaub...but when you talk about better, you're basically talking about finding a guy that can be amongst the elite...& those kinds of players aren't exactly easy to find.

All i know is 1 thing Smith is definitely not that guy.








Smith

Don't discount the system Schaub plays in. This system took Sage Rosenfels
from the scrap heap, and made him a decent starter. The guy was traded
for draft picks, for crying-out-loud. David Carr looked like an NFL QB under
this system.

Schaub has certain skills, but he lacks CLASS A TOOLS. If Harbaugh were
here, I think we would've seen more snaps from TJ Yates, who is OUR
"Colin Kaepernick." Jim Harbaugh was a starter, Kubiak was a career backup.

Their coaching mentalities bear that out.

[2012Champs]

Originally Posted by DexmanC

Don't discount the system Schaub plays in. This system took Sage Rosenfels
from the scrap heat, and made him a decent starter. The guy was traded
for draft picks, for crying-out-loud. David Carr looked like an NFL QB under
this system.

Schaub has certain skills, but he lacks CLASS A TOOLS. If Harbaugh were
here, I think we would've seen more snaps from TJ Yates, who is OUR
"Colin Kaepernick." Jim Harbaugh was a starter, Kubiak was a career backup.

Their coaching mentalities bear that out.

Just because Yates is our backup and Kap was theirs in no way suggest if Jim was here he would be starting Yates. Yates is not a starter in this league

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by DexmanC

Don't discount the system Schaub plays in. This system took Sage Rosenfels
from the scrap heat, and made him a decent starter. The guy was traded
for draft picks, for crying-out-loud. David Carr looked like an NFL QB under
this system.

Schaub has certain skills, but he lacks CLASS A TOOLS. If Harbaugh were
here, I think we would've seen more snaps from TJ Yates, who is OUR
"Colin Kaepernick." Jim Harbaugh was a starter, Kubiak was a career backup.

Their coaching mentalities bear that out.

1st off David Carr & Sage still looked like garbage have you forgotten the rosencopter game?....

2nd, i guess it just comes down to what you value the most in you qb imo...me personally, i value a good decision making qb above the rocket arm, above the super mobility.

[DexmanC]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

1st off David Carr & Sage still looked like garbage have you forgotten the rosencopter game?....

2nd, i guess it just comes down to what you value the most in you qb imo...me personally, i value a good decision making qb above the rocket arm, above the super mobility.

Prior to the "Rosencopter Game," Sage was quite serviceable while playing in this
system. In fact, during that SAME game he led the Texans to a 17-point lead
against the perennial AFC South Champions. Kubiak's system works wonders
on all quarterbacks, but if they have the physical tools to go along with it,
those special quarterbacks would excel.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

1st off David Carr & Sage still looked like garbage have you forgotten the rosencopter game?....

I remember that game. Sage was playing pretty well all game and had that one awful, awful moment.

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by DexmanC

Prior to the "Rosencopter Game," Sage was quite serviceable while playing in this
system. In fact, during that SAME game he led the Texans to a 17-point lead
against the perennial AFC South Champions. Kubiak's system works wonders
on all quarterbacks, but if they have the physical tools to go along with it,
those special quarterbacks would excel.

& then he proceeded to fumble the ball on a head 1st run...(dumb decision)

& then he later threw a bad int to give the lead right back...(dumb decision)

As far as the bolded, that would apply to any system. Obviously, the offense the Broncos run wouldn't run as well with a guy like Matt Schaub or Chad Pennington at the helm.

[DexmanC]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

& then he proceeded to fumble the ball on a head 1st run...(dumb decision)

& then he later threw a bad int to give the lead right back...(dumb decision)

As far as the bolded, that would apply to any system. Obviously, the offense the Broncos run wouldn't run as well with a guy like Matt Schaub or Chad Pennington at the helm.

Pockets are broken against good d-lines. When this happens, and Schaub
is under center, the play is OVER.

TJ Yates, and other qb's with similar tools, are able to EXTEND the play with
their arm or legs. Schaub struggles to do either.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

1.)no one has an over inflated value of schaub... 2.)I'm all for finding a new qb that's better than schaub...but when you talk about better, you're basically talking about finding a guy that can be amongst the elite...& those kinds of players aren't exactly easy to find.

3.)All i know is 1 thing Smith is definitely not that guy.

1.) If you think he is much better than A Smith you do.
2.) you see right there you are basically saying that Schaub is just below the elites. I'm fine with a smart, good game manager type. I just want one that is at least mobile enough to extend plays when things go wrong up front. He doesn't have to be Rodger Stauback like just be decent at it. I want a guy that if no one is open to at least be able to break the LOS and pick up a first down every once in a while. Every Since Schaubs injury he hasn't been the same. You can't deny that. He's basically a cripple out there.

3.) never said he was.

[2012Champs]

Originally Posted by DexmanC

Pockets are broken against good d-lines. When this happens, and Schaub
is under center, the play is OVER.

TJ Yates, and other qb's with similar tools, are able to EXTEND the play with
their arm or legs. Schaub struggles to do either.

Is that why Yates took as many sacks as Schuab last year?

[mussop]

Originally Posted by 2012Champs

Is that why Yates took as many sacks as Schuab last year?

I hate these narrow minded type of questions. Do you think Schaub is more mobile than Yates? That's all he was trying to say. Jeeesh use a little bit of common sense.