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Old 12-22-2012   #161
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

How about this guy? Texans Future QB

He's got the arm, size and family pedigree to be a great QB. I'm sure his family has told him to be a QB before anything else in life. He won't be in the draft this year and we may have to trade up to get him but he might just be worth it.

Don't kill me!!!
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Old 12-22-2012   #162
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by Exascor View Post
How about this guy? Texans Future QB

He's got the arm, size and family pedigree to be a great QB. I'm sure his family has told him to be a QB before anything else in life. He won't be in the draft this year and we may have to trade up to get him but he might just be worth it.

Don't kill me!!!
Why, I ought to ...

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Old 12-22-2012   #163
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by Exascor View Post
How about this guy? Texans Future QB

He's got the arm, size and family pedigree to be a great QB. I'm sure his family has told him to be a QB before anything else in life. He won't be in the draft this year and we may have to trade up to get him but he might just be worth it.

Don't kill me!!!
You're just cruisin' for a bruisin' aintcha?


...seriously, nothing says this guy doesn't have a much better work ethic and football IQ than his older brother. Maybe he does. Everyone is worth a look.

I almost admire you for having the 'nads to post that link.

then again you're probably just
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Old 12-22-2012   #164
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post
I think his numbers are spot on, as far as this conversation goes. Eyeball wise, if we saw Brady miss on all 6 of his 40+ yard passes, we'd think he was inaccurate. Peyton only attempting it one time may tell us that he "knows better" Rogers missing on 5 of 6 would also not pass the eyeball test.

However, that one pass to Walter in the gifs above, though it was a TD, that's not where I would have wanted that ball & like you said, Schaub fails the eyeball test on the 20 to 40 yard passes.

But again, I'm sure his numbers are similar to the QBs we say he isn't in the class of... Brady, Manning, Rogers.

I'm not a Schaub fan, so don't take this as me defending Schaub, only that 'cak's argument is relevant & evidence enough that the rest of us should probably reconsider our opinions of the "looks older than he really is" QB.

I'm an Aikman fan. & Troy was not very mobile. I think Troy understood ball placement much better than Schaub & his accuracy was off the chart (eyeball wise) in comparison.

But as Tex so vehemently professed, Schaub may very well be elite & we just don't know it. I know Tex didn't say it in so many words, but once you consider what Schaub has done & how long he's done it, it's kinda hard to argue. If we get to the Super Bowl & he plays the way he had at the beginning of the year (most notably Denver) or as well & efficiently as he did prior to getting hurt last year, it's going to be hard to deny & the conversation will get bigger at the national level.

Another season like this, with Schaub staying healthy, there won't be any doubt.
That's a very logical conclusion however I pay special attention to the deep passes because it drove me crazy early on in Schuabs career. The stats being used to argue that he is an accurate deep ball thrower don't translate here. It doesn't matter how many completions he's thrown compared to other QB's. not one stat being tossed out here proves his deep ball accuracy which is all I'm debating. Again I'm not dogging Schaub or sayin he sucks or comparing him to anyone. I'm simply pointing out that one of his few weaknesses is his DEEP BALL ACCURACY. In other words his ability to hit receivers in stride.

Again the stats don't show how many times a WR had to stop or comeback to make the catch when had he been led it would of been a TD. They don't show how many times the WR has had to make a great play on the ball even though they had a step on the DB.
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Old 12-22-2012   #165
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

Really I wouldn't mind seeing us draft any of these guys to push Yates for the backup sopt.
Tyler Wilson, QB, Arkansas
Height: 6-3. Weight: 220.
Projected 40 Time: 4.80.
Projected Round (2013): 1-2.
Wilson completed 62 percent of his passes for 3,387 yards, 21 touchdowns and 13 interceptions in 2012.

Tyler Bray*, QB, Tennessee
Height: 6-6. Weight: 210.
Projected 40 Time: 4.82.
Projected Round (2013): 1-3.
12/1/12: Bray had a bunch of uneven games this year. He was repeatedly been hurt by dropped passes, but also had some shaky decision-making. The junior completed 59 percent of his passes this season, collecting 3,612 yards, 34 touchdowns and 12 interceptions.

Landry "Lance" Jones, QB, Oklahoma
Height: 6-4. Weight: 216.
Projected 40 Time: 4.81.
Projected Round (2013): 1-3.
12/1/12: Jones has completed 66 percent of his passes for 3,745 yards, 27 touchdowns and nine interceptions.

Tajh Boyd*, QB, Clemson
Height: 6-1. Weight: 225.
Projected 40 Time: 4.63.
Projected Round (2013): 1-3.
12/1/12: Boyd has completed 67 percent of his passes this year for 3,550 yards, 34 touchdowns and 13 interceptions. He has run for 706 yards (492 net) and nine touchdowns, too.

Ryan Nassib, Syracuse
Height: 6-2. Weight: 229.
Projected 40 Time: 4.80.
Projected Round (2013): 2-3.
12/1/12: Nassib has completed 63 percent of his passes for 3,619 yards, 24 touchdowns and nine interceptions this year. He has displayed intelligence and accuracy this season.


Mike Glennon, QB, N.C. State
Height: 6-6. Weight: 232.
Projected 40 Time: 4.61.
Projected Round (2013): 2-3.
12/1/12: Glennon has completed 57 percent of his passes for 3,648 yards, 30 touchdowns and 14 interceptions. He has played better than his numbers indicate.

Aaron Murray*, QB, Georgia
Height: 6-1. Weight: 211.
Projected 40 Time: 4.81.
Projected Round (2013): 2-4.
12/1/12: Murray has completed 67 percent of his passes in 2012 for 3,201 yards, 30 touchdowns and seven interceptions

E.J. Manuel, QB, Florida State
Height: 6-5. Weight: 234.
Projected 40 Time: 4.61.
Projected Round (2013): 3-4.
12/1/12: Manuel is one of the most improved draft prospects in the nation. His accuracy and field vision have really made strides from 2011. He is elevating from a game manager to a play-maker. Manuel has completed 67 percent of his passes for 2,972 yards, 22 touchdowns and 16 interceptions this season. He has run the ball well for the Seminoles also.

Zac Dysert, QB, Miami of Ohio
Height: 6-4. Weight: 228.
Projected 40 Time: 4.79.
Projected Round (2013): 3-5.
12/1/12: Dysert has completed 63 percent of his passes for 3,483 yards, 25 touchdowns and 12 interceptions in 2012.

Colin Klein, QB, Kansas State
Height: 6-5. Weight: 226.
Projected 40 Time: 4.72.
Projected Round (2013): 5-7.
12/1/12: Klein has been one of the best players in college football this season. He has been a superb play-maker who has carried the Wildcats to a great season.

Klein's completed 67 percent of his passes for 2,306 yards, 14 touchdowns and six interceptions this year. The senior has also ran for 20 touchdowns. He ran for 1,141 yards and 27 touchdowns in 2011 while throwing for 1,918 yards with 13 touchdowns and six interceptions.
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Old 12-22-2012   #166
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Old 12-22-2012   #167
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by Textan View Post
Last game against the Colts Schaub woefully under-threw a wide open Andre Johnson, causing Johnson to make a herculian effort to catch the pass.
And comparing Manning, Brady, Warner, Eli, to Schaub is absolutely ridiculous. He's not even in the same league, seriously.
I'm pretty sure that's exactly where the ball was supposed to be.

It's the equivalent of some 48 yard downfield from the LOS, the top of Schaub's range.

And he was some 10 yards behind of the LOS without much time to set up.

AJ knew where be needed to be to catch that ball.
He ran hard so that the DB had no time to look back for the ball.

You may not know it, but we had talked about this before (many many times) about how far he can throw the ball.
Nope, it was not underground.
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Old 12-22-2012   #168
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
Your observation is flawed because you are using stats instead of using your eyes. That might convince a jury in a court room that hadn't actually seen the throws but doesn't mean diddly squat to me. I watch him game after game, deep throw after deep throw not hit wide open WR's in stride.
Nope, I use my eyes plenty. But I look all around the league. I think you are being hypercritical of the home team QB and not giving him a fair assessment in comparison to the competition. The stats are a reality check.

PS - I have watched all the same games. Sure there are balls I think could have been thrown better but the difference is I see that all over the league. The fact is the highlight reel catches by WR's are often balls which could have been thrown better. Lynn Swan is in the HoF for bailing out Bradshaw multiple times in the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post
I'm an Aikman fan. & Troy was not very mobile. I think Troy understood ball placement much better than Schaub & his accuracy was off the chart (eyeball wise) in comparison.
That was absolutely one of Aikman's greatest strengths. Very few QB's have been as precise.
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Old 12-22-2012   #169
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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so you're doing it too, huh
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Old 12-22-2012   #170
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Nope, I use my eyes plenty. But I look all around the league. I think you are being hypercritical of the home team QB and not giving him a fair assessment in comparison to the competition. The stats are a reality check.

PS - I have watched all the same games. Sure there are balls I think could have been thrown better but the difference is I see that all over the league. The fact is the highlight reel catches by WR's are often balls which could have been thrown better. Lynn Swan is in the HoF for bailing out Bradshaw multiple times in the playoffs.
Again show me how the stats are a reality check. How do they prove Schaub throws the ball accurately when throwing deep? Like I said before, they have no merit in this conversation. I think it's you that is giving the hometown QB a pass. (no pun intended ) Unless one of us or someone else has the time to go back and review all the deep passes Schaub has thrown in the last couple of years we will just have to agree to disagree.
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Old 12-22-2012   #171
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Again show me how the stats are a reality check. How do they prove Schaub throws the ball accurately when throwing deep? Like I said before, they have no merit in this conversation.
No, you're right. Clearly 1 of 13 from three elite QB's is all on perfectly thrown balls and the WR's for the Broncos, Packers and Patriots just suck.

I am overwhelmed by the persuasiveness of your "I don't give a stat" argument.
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Old 12-22-2012   #172
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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No, you're right. Clearly 1 of 13 from three elite QB's is all on perfectly thrown balls and the WR's for the Broncos, Packers and Patriots just suck.

I am overwhelmed by the persuasiveness of your "I don't give a stat" argument.
Hey... don't be bothering him with facts and stats; his mind is made up!
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Old 12-22-2012   #173
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Hey... don't be bothering him with facts and stats; his mind is made up!
You are right my mind is made up. And until he comes up with better evidence than some stupid ass stats that barely have anything to do with the conversation it will stay made up.

Tell me this, you line up 3 QB's and have them throw one after another a deep pass to a sprinting WR. At the end of the day is it conclusive that whichever one completed the most passes is the best?

Does Throwing the most completions mean he is the most accurate or even that he is accurate at all?

If two of them each complete 5 out of 10 of their passes does it mean they are equally as accurate.

The easy answer is yes to all these questions but it wouldn't necessarily be the right answer. There are many other factors involved that need to be taken Into consideration.

How many of the completion did the WR have to stop or come back to too catch?

How many we're just great catches by the WR?

How many of the incompletions were dropped?

Now factor in game situations. How many of the throws were thrown on the move or with a defensive player applying pressure?

And so on and so on. Stats are misleading and are only tell a small part of the whole story. You can use them as a guideline but to assume they are the be all end all is really pretty narrow minded.

Like I said earlier, the only true way to prove which of our perceptions is more accurate is to review all the deep throws he has made over the last couple of years and judge his accuracy using ALL the factors not just his completions compared to a few others.

But hell if deducing down to simple stats is all it takes convince you guys then I'm wasting my time.
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Old 12-22-2012   #174
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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You are right my mind is made up. And until he comes up with better evidence than some stupid ass stats that barely have anything to do with the conversation it will stay made up.

Tell me this, you line up 3 QB's and have them throw one after another a deep pass to a sprinting WR. At the end of the day is it conclusive that whichever one completed the most passes is the best?

Does Throwing the most completions mean he is the most accurate or even that he is accurate at all?

If two of them each complete 5 out of 10 of their passes does it mean they are equally as accurate.

The easy answer is yes to all these questions but it wouldn't necessarily be the right answer. There are many other factors involved that need to be taken Into consideration.

How many of the completion did the WR have to stop or come back to too catch?

How many we're just great catches by the WR?

How many of the incompletions were dropped?

Now factor in game situations. How many of the throws were thrown on the move or with a defensive player applying pressure?

And so on and so on. Stats are misleading and are only tell a small part of the whole story. You can use them as a guideline but to assume they are the be all end all is really pretty narrow minded.

Like I said earlier, the only true way to prove which of our perceptions is more accurate is to review all the deep throws he has made over the last couple of years and judge his accuracy using ALL the factors not just his completions compared to a few others.

But hell if deducing down to simple stats is all it takes convince you guys then I'm wasting my time.
It comes down to whether you believe accuracy or effectiveness is the more important characteristic. That those guys only completed only 1 of 13 opportunities - for whatever reason - while Schaub had a 75% success rate tells me he's at least more effective. Maybe not more accurate but way more effective on those long throws. And I'll take successful results over pretty but incomplete passes any day.
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Old 12-22-2012   #175
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

With Schaub as QB, we'd probably have been in the AFC championship game last year. And that's the next to last game I expect we'll play this year.
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Old 12-22-2012   #176
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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It comes down to whether you believe accuracy or effectiveness is the more important characteristic. That those guys only completed only 1 of 13 opportunities - for whatever reason - while Schaub had a 75% success rate tells me he's at least more effective. Maybe not more accurate but way more effective on those long throws. And I'll take successful results over pretty but incomplete passes any day.
In this situation effectiveness is the result of more than just an individual and many factors. I can't understand how you don't see that. Of course you believe Rodgers is only slightly better than Schaub because of stats so.......
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Old 12-22-2012   #177
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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for each of those, there are these


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQMK89xsbXA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEKJZxalrEc

And those plus 20 and plus 40 yarders are flawed, because our scheme leaves guys wide open OR you have AJ making Herculean catches
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Old 12-22-2012   #178
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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And those plus 20 and plus 40 yarders are flawed, because our scheme leaves guys wide open OR you have AJ making Herculean catches
I agree our schemes are good but this is a seriously BS argument - as if other teams aren't scheming to get their receivers open. Yeah the other 31 teams are just playing sandlot football - umm, Calvin you go on a pitch and Titus you go on a hitch.

In the two gifs you quoted nobody was wide open and AJ did not have to make a herculean catch - and that was a 55 yard in the air perfectly in stride thrown ball. AJ certainly goes herculean at times - it is what great receivers do (and they do it because QB's, all of them, make poor or imperfect throws). Try finding a highlight clip for a WR which doesn't have him making dramatic catches on imperfectly thrown balls.

I am not making an argument Schaub is the most accurate QB around. I am saying the assertions of his noodle arm and inaccuracy are overstated when comparing him to other QB's instead of a vacuum.
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Old 12-22-2012   #179
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by amazing80 View Post
And those plus 20 and plus 40 yarders are flawed, because our scheme leaves guys wide open OR you have AJ making Herculean catches
That "Herculean" description applies to any QB. That's not unique to Schaub.
NFLN just showed a highlight reel of some of Rodgers' TD tosses this season (they were posing the question "Is Rodgers the best QB in football today?") and half of the scoring tosses they showed the WR had to leap over the DB to make the catch or make a diving grab to complete the play. I'm pretty sure Brady, Manning, et. al. sometimes just toss the thing in the area of his guy and depends on him to make the play. In fact I've heard Brady say as much about Gronk or Welker in post-game pressers. So that "Herculean catch" thing is what the WRs get paid to do. If I have a WR who can only make a catch when the ball hits him in stride and on the numbers then I'm looking to replace him. Because any REASONABLE person knows every pass won't be perfect.
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Old 12-23-2012   #180
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

I think kubes is always looking for that guy who fits the mold for his offense. He can get by with schaub and his limitations because he was trying to get the team moving forward. Just like he and shanny managed to get jake plummer and griese in the pro bowl, when he had the chance to get a mobile guy with a big arm(cutler) they did it. Kubes is looking for that guy even while he's winning with schaub. If I were the texans in this draft, if Manuel or bray are there in the 3rd rd, I would draft either 1. Geno falling is a wet dream, bridgewater still has 2 yrs left. Its never a wrong time to develop the qb position.
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