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Old 12-19-2012   #101
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by TexanSam View Post
I'm not sure if we know what the Texans have in Yates yet. I don't think last year was a large enough sample size.
We still don't know if Schaub can perform at a top dog level in a big game. But that doesn't mean we can't look at him and say the things we like about him.

Last year didn't make or break Yates career, but for a 5th round rookie suddenly thrown into the action, IMO, he showed really well.
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Old 12-19-2012   #102
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Here's what Kubiak had to say about Keenum the Friday before the Pats game.

(on QB Case Keenum’s role preparing for the Patriots’ quick offense) “Actually (QB) T.J. (Yates) gets the bulk of it, but (QB) Case (Keenum) kind of plays everywhere. Case has done a wonderful job this year. I think he’s got a bright future in this league. I’m looking forward to these next eight weeks, but I’m really looking forward to his future coming back after a year with our team because he’s made a lot of progress. He knows what’s going on. He’s going to be very competitive come next year.”
I like Case too and I haven't even seen him play in the NFL much.
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Old 12-19-2012   #103
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

Anybody noticed that Kubiak mentioned about "looking forward to the next eight weeks".
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Old 12-19-2012   #104
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

If we would of traded up for RG3 last year like I wanted to we wouldn't be having these discussions.
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Old 12-19-2012   #105
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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If we would of traded up for RG3 last year like I wanted to we wouldn't be having these discussions.
We'd be talking a lot about Yates right now.
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Old 12-19-2012   #106
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Anybody noticed that Kubiak mentioned about "looking forward to the next eight weeks".
The next eight weeks will take us through the Super Bowl.

Kubiak is a liar when he said the Texans are only concerned with one game at a time, LOL.
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Old 12-19-2012   #107
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Our offense had 100 yds less passing per game and 10 pts less per game. I don't see where this Yates love comes from.

As to the OP - why not just use one of those draft picks on a QB?

But to give you a boost with a counter - of the 2007 draft class (the year we traded for Schaub) of QB's - none are starters in the NFL. Of the 2008 draft class of QB's only the two taken in the 1st round are starters.
I don't see it as much "Yates love" as I do Yates defense. Dude made some plays when it mattered, secured a playoff spot and won a playoff game. I do not think it is unreasonable for a fanbase to think favorably of a third-string rookie QB who epitomized the "next man up" mantra of 2011.

I'm a Schaub fan and I think he's got many years left in the tank. However, he got to ride the bench in Atlanta for three seasons.

And let's not forget the little fact that Schaub has yet to be tested in the playoffs. If judging by the SNF game with GB and MNF game with NE, I'm going to be holding my breath. His goofy stare down and INT when a wide open Foster never got a look scares me a little. Schaub has shown a tendency to shrivel a little in big pressure games. The playoffs are all that, and we will find out his true grit in the coming weeks.

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Gig 'em!!


***************************

All kidding aside, why are we considering another QB?? Why? Because Schaub is getting old, or because many of us and by us I mean you cynical folks are just bitching for the sake of bitching???

Just stoopid.... I think some people just post shyte about things they know nothing about just to push their agenda.
Yeah, these kinds of threads are indicative of a fanbase with a winning team that does not have a lot to bitch about. For years, there have been raging debates because the Texans were not a good team. Now we have to come up with hypotheticals and argue about a friggin' backup QB. Go figure.

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We still don't know if Schaub can perform at a top dog level in a big game. But that doesn't mean we can't look at him and say the things we like about him.

Last year didn't make or break Yates career, but for a 5th round rookie suddenly thrown into the action, IMO, he showed really well.
I agree. Schaub is our starter and I hope he stays at that level for years to come. But I want to see him prove himself in January.

Regarding Yates, I have never advocated that he be a starter, but I do feel comfortable having him on the bench backing up Schaub. I think he's better than any other backup we've had, including Rosencopter and Leinart. JMO.
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Old 12-19-2012   #108
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
We'd be talking a lot about Yates right now.
Had we drafted RG3 I doubt Yates would be on the team.
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Old 12-19-2012   #109
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by amazing80 View Post
In regards to Yates first 5 games vs Andre Lucks first 5 games.

Yates went 78/130 for a 60% completion rate and had 3 tds and 3 ints. 902 yards plus 57 yards rushing.

Luck went 118/221 for a 53% completion rate and 7 tds and 7 ints. 1488 yards plus 103 yards rushing.

They might want to cut Luck and trade for Cousins


PS, Luck played pre-season snaps AND got all the first team reps assuming the starter role
I see the haters conveniently skipped over this, should we send this to Indy so they can move on from Luck??
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Old 12-19-2012   #110
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Had we drafted RG3 I doubt Yates would be on the team.
How can that happen? Come on be real, dawg!
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Old 12-19-2012   #111
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by Premier View Post
the whole accuracy measurement seems flawed, its just an advancement on completion percentage, a stat which doesnt tell the whole story to begin with. accuracy percentage ignores throwaways and throws under duress, even then its still mainly about completion percentage after those incompletions are removed from the equation.
Didn't make myself clear. I'm talking more "eye test" than stats when I refer to accuracy. Your next paragraph goes to the heart of that point.

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the way i see accuracy, if a wide receiver is a target, his chest and hands are the bullseye. balls thrown in the vicinity still hit the board but theyre not bullseye hits. schaub throws way too many balls at his TEs feet, behind WRs on slants, way too many times are his receivers fully extended saving INTs, with little to no velocity. hes not exactly the poster boy for accuracy.
Agreed. However, Schaub does well enough and has, in past seasons at least, shown that he can put the ball in tight spaces. ...as long as it isn't a real, long throw.

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when i think of accuracy, i think guys like brees, who can throw a dart back shoulder pass in tight coverage, that hits his main in the chest, a pass that dbs never had a chance of defending. does this sound like schaub at all?
Add Rodgers and Brady to this list too. When their guy has a DB in his back pocket they can put the ball in his shirt pocket. When their guy has the DB on his inside they put it on the outside... ...and their guy never has to break stride.

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non elite qbs that would thrive in this system-
rivers, flacco, cutler, stafford, vick, freeman, ryan, romo, newton, eli, ben, rg3, luck...
good list. I'd put Schaub on equal footing with this bunch. Any of them, like Schaub, when they're "On", can go toe-to-toe with anyone. When they're not "On", they can cost you the game.

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if there was such a thing as a qb friendly system, this is it.. the toughest thing about it is learning that dennys menu playbook of kubes.. its all about formation trickery and getting defenses to commit to the stretch run.
and knowing when the defense is stacked against what was called and when/where there's a mismatch in our favor. One would think those things can be taught. But the prospect has to have the work ethic to study enough to pick that stuff up.
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Old 12-19-2012   #112
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
I would assume that every QB Kubiak drafts, he intends to some day take over, which inherently means that he is selecting QBs to be the next guy at the controls. Otherwise Kubiak is just drafting backups??? He could go get a backup if he wanted a backup (Leinart, Orlovsky, Rex, Couch, etc.).

Your idea almost makes it sound like Kubiak doesn't think Kubiak is smart enough to find a future Texans QB in the draft, the long-term solution as a guy like Schaub begins to fade or gets hurt and cannot play.
No, no... you're reading too much into what I said. All I'm saying is Kubiak is good with Schaub as his starter (note the multi-year extension in Sept.) and hasn't gone "all in" to find a replacement. I figure the search will become earnest in a couple of years unless Yates starts to improve significantly. And I ain't saying Yates can't ...I mean they turned Kareem (I fall down) Jackson into a solid #2 CB. Nothing says Yates cannot make that kind of improvement too. We have time.

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And this whole bull**** of "hate" is dumb. Come on, man. It's not hate...it's just saying that he had a full off-season, a full camp, and even in preseason games vs. 3rd stringers...Yates looked really, really, REALLY bad. And I was one of the biggest Yates pumpers out here back in the off-season.
I salute you for backing off on last year's "enthusiam" for Yates and recognizing he hasn't progressed as some predicted and most of us hoped. So, you're right, it's not "hate". This season Yates simply has not passed the eyeball test. But I'm thinking Kubiak will give him next year to grow and maybe he'll blossom as KJ did.
If so, great.
If not, the search continues.
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Old 12-19-2012   #113
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by amazing80 View Post
Incorrect, the NFL voted Yates the most valuable back up and most wanted QB......it was a story earlier in the season.....No one here is claiming he is the next Tom Brady, but the guy surely provides upside

And Schaub is BARELY top 10, if he even is....so its not like we're moving on from a prime top 5 qb, give schaub another season or 2 then evaluate him and move on
Talk about complete false rhetoric to suggest that Yates is some highly sought after QB. WHat a crock. There isn't any teams out there trying to get Yates out of Houston. ANd there won't be either. And yeah, there were several people trying to make Brady comparisons last season because they were drafted in the same draft. There were a ton of people saying he should be the starter over Schaub in the off season, and everyone can spare me with this total BS that Yates took the Texans to the playoffs or "epitomized" this next man up garbage. Yates was "dragged" to the playoffs by a team that had a great running game and a great defense. Yates was awful down the stretch of the season. He was dreadful and Kubiak never trusted him either. Our offense was horrible with him in there and we lost to the Colts for crying out loud.

The Texans aren't even close to moving on from Schaub. They're 12-2 with Schaub and were on a winning streak with a very good offense last season with Schaub.

I swear, you guys don't seem to realize at all that the Texans offense right now is the 3rd highest scoring offense in the league. That means that Schaub has led an offense that can put up points all year long and until a few weeks ago they were #2 behind the Patriots. And this is all behind an offense where most people think that Foster is not the same and Tate has been out and where we have a ton of lousy #2 WR's.

Schaub and Yates aren't even in the same dimension of QB's.

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I see the haters conveniently skipped over this, should we send this to Indy so they can move on from Luck??
You should be excluded from this conversation for even attempting to compare Yates to Andrew Luck. Luck has carried a 1-15 team on his back all season long. He has made several come back victories and is already one of the better QB's in this league. Trying to cherry pick some type of worthless stats from Yates to Luck is one of the biggest reaches I've ever seen in here.
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Old 12-19-2012   #114
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Talk about complete false rhetoric to suggest that Yates is some highly sought after QB. WHat a crock. There isn't any teams out there trying to get Yates out of Houston. ANd there won't be either. And yeah, there were several people trying to make Brady comparisons last season because they were drafted in the same draft. There were a ton of people saying he should be the starter over Schaub in the off season, and everyone can spare me with this total BS that Yates took the Texans to the playoffs or "epitomized" this next man up garbage. Yates was "dragged" to the playoffs by a team that had a great running game and a great defense. Yates was awful down the stretch of the season. He was dreadful and Kubiak never trusted him either. Our offense was horrible with him in there and we lost to the Colts for crying out loud.

The Texans aren't even close to moving on from Schaub. They're 12-2 with Schaub and were on a winning streak with a very good offense last season with Schaub.

I swear, you guys don't seem to realize at all that the Texans offense right now is the 3rd highest scoring offense in the league. That means that Schaub has led an offense that can put up points all year long and until a few weeks ago they were #2 behind the Patriots. And this is all behind an offense where most people think that Foster is not the same and Tate has been out and where we have a ton of lousy #2 WR's.

Schaub and Yates aren't even in the same dimension of QB's.



You should be excluded from this conversation for even attempting to compare Yates to Andrew Luck. Luck has carried a 1-15 team on his back all season long. He has made several come back victories and is already one of the better QB's in this league. Trying to cherry pick some type of worthless stats from Yates to Luck is one of the biggest reaches I've ever seen in here.


Way to rant about nothing mentioned in the thread. No one here is proclaiming that Yates is better than SCHAUB, we're discussing our FUTURE qb and Yates is the likely candidate based on last season. Way to be dramatic and over react, typical from you I imagine.....
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Old 12-19-2012   #115
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Way to rant about nothing mentioned in the thread. No one here is proclaiming that Yates is better than SCHAUB, we're discussing our FUTURE qb and Yates is the likely candidate based on last season. Way to be dramatic and over react, typical from you I imagine.....
I've read in this very thread that Yates has more upside, that Yates showed all this good stuff last season, and yada yada, yada. And yes, I've heard many people attempt to suggest that Schaub would not be as good as Yates in the off season. Sorry, but I'm tired of hearing his name being mentioned. He showed that he was what he was drafted as last season which was a 6th round rookie 3rd string QB. His numbers were not good. He did not have any type of improv skills anywhere near what I've seen even out of guys like Kapernick or Russell Wilson.

When I hear you and some of these others repping 3rd string QB's on other teams or guys like Gabbert, then I won't think that this has anything to do with Yates being some likable 3rd string guy that was thrown into the fire that people wanted to believe in. People should want a guy who has the ability to become an elite level one day. There was nothing to see out of Yates to suggest that he would ever be anything more then another Jason Campbell or Brad Johnson type of QB at best. If he hit his highest peak, he could possibly be as good as Jake Delhomme. And I don't think even for a second that even Gary Kubiak would ever make Yates as a full time starter unless it was a stop gap type of season where we had no one else to throw out there. There is nothing out there currently to suggest that Yates is our future. He was our 3rd stringer that we were forced to play. Nothing more then that.
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Old 12-19-2012   #116
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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There were a ton of people saying he should be the starter over Schaub in the off season
Not saying you are wrong, but I don't recall anyone seriously suggesting that Yates should start over Schaub.

I do remember the question, "If Yates leads us to the AFC Championship game should he start over Schaub?"

Since that didn't happen, & like you said, he was dragged to a play-off victory.... the question's kinda moot.
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Old 12-19-2012   #117
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Not saying you are wrong, but I don't recall anyone seriously suggesting that Yates should start over Schaub.

I do remember the question, "If Yates leads us to the AFC Championship game should he start over Schaub?"

Since that didn't happen, & like you said, he was dragged to a play-off victory.... the question's kinda moot.
Off season threads got pretty ridiculous regarding Yates and even going back to last season. The Texans were winning a few games with him, but it was with a run first team and a great defense. It had nothing to do with Yates's arm. Hell, Kubiak didn't trust Yates to do anything either. When he did and Yates was forced to actually try to win games, you saw what happened against a terrible Colts team and the Ravens game where he threw like 4 picks. The thing is that no one ever whispered a word about this great potential of Yates. Before he was forced to start he was just some 6th round pick that no one cared about. But when we had all those injuries and he was forced to start, everyone wanted to have this huge rally around him where all this false hope was put behind this below average guy who never had a chance last season. I told people that the minute he became our starter. I knew our chances of winning a SB were done, and believe me a ton of people swore up and down that we still had a shot even with Yates and made all of these Tom Brady analogies as if Brady's story was some norm around the league.

I think Yates is fine for a back up. Glad to have him. But the minute that talks begin as far as him being a starter, that's when this stuff gets crazy. I can guarantee you that if Yates played for the Titans people in here would clown him just as bad as they do with Gabbert. you put Gabbert as our back up on the Texans you'd be hearing all these same people talking about how much potential Gabbert has and how he could possibly be our future. That's how a lot of fans are always thinking certain guys that are completely unproven will become these great surprises just because they want that to happen. Hell, do you remember how many people automatically thought that Lestar Jean and Martin were something to get really excited about after the pre season? neither one has done jack this year, and you'd have figured that people would have learned after Jacoby Jones did nothing after that great pre season. I see this every off season on this board.
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Old 12-19-2012   #118
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post

I think Yates is fine for a back up. Glad to have him. But the minute that talks begin as far as him being a starter, that's when this stuff gets crazy. I can guarantee you that if Yates played for the Titans people in here would clown him just as bad as they do with Gabbert. you put Gabbert as our back up on the Texans you'd be hearing all these same people talking about how much potential Gabbert has and how he could possibly be our future. That's how a lot of fans are always thinking certain guys that are completely unproven will become these great surprises just because they want that to happen. Hell, do you remember how many people automatically thought that Lestar Jean and Martin were something to get really excited about after the pre season? The guy hasn't done jack this year.
I wouldn't mind having Locker as our back-up, under Gary's tuteledge. Then yes, you may here some talk about how "great" our back up is. Gabbert? Jags QB? I doubt it. He'd get the Orlavsky treatment.

Yates & Rosenfels showed an ability to play this game at a high level & with a safe Gary Kubiak game plan, could win some games. They had that improv factor that Matt does not.

Locker has it. Gabbert does not.

You're right, we get way too excited about what might be with any QB on our roster that shows the slightest hint of talent & totally dismiss what talent Matt Schaub possesses.

But, we're pretty brutal to the ones that show no snap at all... Orlavsky, & Sage again.
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Old 12-19-2012   #119
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
I've read in this very thread that Yates has more upside, that Yates showed all this good stuff last season, and yada yada, yada. And yes, I've heard many people attempt to suggest that Schaub would not be as good as Yates in the off season. Sorry, but I'm tired of hearing his name being mentioned. He showed that he was what he was drafted as last season which was a 6th round rookie 3rd string QB. His numbers were not good. He did not have any type of improv skills anywhere near what I've seen even out of guys like Kapernick or Russell Wilson.

When I hear you and some of these others repping 3rd string QB's on other teams or guys like Gabbert, then I won't think that this has anything to do with Yates being some likable 3rd string guy that was thrown into the fire that people wanted to believe in. People should want a guy who has the ability to become an elite level one day. There was nothing to see out of Yates to suggest that he would ever be anything more then another Jason Campbell or Brad Johnson type of QB at best. If he hit his highest peak, he could possibly be as good as Jake Delhomme. And I don't think even for a second that even Gary Kubiak would ever make Yates as a full time starter unless it was a stop gap type of season where we had no one else to throw out there. There is nothing out there currently to suggest that Yates is our future. He was our 3rd stringer that we were forced to play. Nothing more then that.

The point of the Yates vs Luck (first 5 games) comparison was to show that Yates played similar to ANY rookie (maybe slightly better since he was the 3rd string) and the expectations were only higher since we had a veteran who had POTENTIAL to lead us deep into the playoffs.....Yates showed flashes of a good arm, nice accuracy and his mobility was a nice bonus, none of those things suggest GOAT, but again, the point of the thread is to discuss the FUTURE qb and Yates is the favorite and should be.....Given time his mental make up will improve and his decision making will also get better. Lets not pretend Schaub is brilliant in our system, he is a game manager, nothing more. Has moments of greatness, but has MUCH more moments of incompetence. For every game he won (and that could be debated since he usually throws it up to our HOF wide out) he has LOST just as many if not more....
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Old 12-19-2012   #120
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by amazing80 View Post
The point of the Yates vs Luck (first 5 games) comparison was to show that Yates played similar to ANY rookie (maybe slightly better since he was the 3rd string) and the expectations were only higher since we had a veteran who had POTENTIAL to lead us deep into the playoffs.....Yates showed flashes of a good arm, nice accuracy and his mobility was a nice bonus, none of those things suggest GOAT, but again, the point of the thread is to discuss the FUTURE qb and Yates is the favorite and should be.....Given time his mental make up will improve and his decision making will also get better. Lets not pretend Schaub is brilliant in our system, he is a game manager, nothing more. Has moments of greatness, but has MUCH more moments of incompetence. For every game he won (and that could be debated since he usually throws it up to our HOF wide out) he has LOST just as many if not more....
Schaub is a game manager?? How the hell do you say these things?? Game managers are guys like Sanchez, Alex Smith, and Kyle Horton.

Schaub is on pace with guys like Matt Ryan, Tony Romo (Better then Romo though), and Eli Manning before Eli won his 2nd SB. That's a fine class to be in.

Schaub has been throwing for a ton of yards every season and has had pretty good TD totals year after year. That is not even close to being a game manager. A game manager is not even close to being capable of throwing for over 500 yards in a game like Schaub had to do just to win.

The only reason why any of you make these ridiculous claims that Schaub is some game manager is because he is no a mobile QB that can make plays on his feet and because he is so mellow on the sidelines. But I don't know how many times I have to point out several QB's that aren't mobile either that are great QB's. Hell, Matt Ryan is not considered one of the best in the league, but he is very good every season. He has his limitations though, but leads his teams to wins just like Schaub does, and Ryan is 12-2 as well.
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