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Old 12-19-2012   #81
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

I think we start looking for Schaub's replacement NOW. Not to replace him in 2013 but to give the youngster 1, 2, maybe 3 seasons to grow in our system.
At the moment I'm not sure Keenum is that guy. Just don't have enough info/game data to make a solid call one way or the other.

And I disagree that Yates was ever Kubiak's "next big boy". Schaub is the only QB Kubiak has spent significant resources to acquire. Think about it. Every other QB Smithiak has brought is was 5th round or lower.

Rosenfels - Unrestricted FA
Shane Boyd - waivers (never got off P/S)
Rex Grossman - cheap F/A
Dan Orlovsky (okay, this was a 9 million dollar brain fart) - F/A
Matt Leinart - cheap F/A
T.J. Yates - 5th rounder
Case Keenum - UDFA

Now there were other late round experiments" whose names escape me but my point still stands. Other than that Orlovsky brainfart, Smithiak has yet to expend significant resources on a QB to replace Schaub. When Smithiak spends what I still call a first day pick - rounds 1-3 - on a QB, they aren't seriously looking to replace Schaub.
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Old 12-19-2012   #82
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

this idea that the only possible upgrade over schaub has to be an elite qb because hes right there on the cusp is pure effin nonsense. should we scroll down the list of non-elite qbs who would kill in this offense.. schaub top 10?? meh, around 7 or 8 or so there starts to be a bunch of interchangeable guys depending how good of a week they have. but if we compiled a list of qbs ranked on skill set, iq, arm strength, pocket presence, mobility, & ability to extend plays, schaub falls somewhere in late teens to 20s.. schaub has always been a numbers guy, he was getting top tenish rankings when the texans were terrible, now he has a top running game and a defense that does have the ability to shut you down and hes still right there where he was a few years ago.. stats and regular season wins only mean so much, lets see him operate in the playoffs. i still fear hes gonna shiit the bed when all the lights are on him. some will still make excuses for him though...
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Old 12-19-2012   #83
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by Premier View Post
this idea that the only possible upgrade over schaub has to be an elite qb because hes right there on the cusp is pure effin nonsense. should we scroll down the list of non-elite qbs who would kill in this offense.. schaub top 10?? meh, around 7 or 8 or so there starts to be a bunch of interchangeable guys depending how good of a week they have. but if we compiled a list of qbs ranked on skill set, iq, arm strength, pocket presence, mobility, & ability to extend plays, schaub falls somewhere in late teens to 20s.. schaub has always been a numbers guy, he was getting top tenish rankings when the texans were terrible, now he has a top running game and a defense that does have the ability to shut you down and hes still right there where he was a few years ago.. stats and regular season wins only mean so much, lets see him operate in the playoffs. i still fear hes gonna shiit the bed when all the lights are on him. some will still make excuses for him though...
You left out a very critical attribute: ACCURACY.
Arm strength don't mean SQUAT if you aren't hitting the target. Lots of guys have strong arms but can't get the ball into tight windows. I list this right after football IQ - the ability to see who should be open before the snap or to see the play called won't work and check into something more promising. And that whole "mobility" thing is a disaster waiting to happen. See M. Vick, RG3, VY, Roetlisberger... all get hurt, seemingly every year for extended periods, trying to be "mobile" and "extend plays".

Oh and I noticed you didn't list the guys you think are ahead of Schaub and why you think they are.
Post your list and lets get the debate on.
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Old 12-19-2012   #84
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

the whole accuracy measurement seems flawed, its just an advancement on completion percentage, a stat which doesnt tell the whole story to begin with. accuracy percentage ignores throwaways and throws under duress, even then its still mainly about completion percentage after those incompletions are removed from the equation. the way i see accuracy, if a wide receiver is a target, his chest and hands are the bullseye. balls thrown in the vicinity still hit the board but theyre not bullseye hits. schaub throws way too many balls at his TEs feet, behind WRs on slants, way too many times are his receivers fully extended saving INTs, with little to no velocity. hes not exactly the poster boy for accuracy. his completion percentage will always be high because this system is designed to trick defenses leaving guys wide open. ive seen schaub make some great throws that didnt seem to be in his repertoires, to beat dbs, but this isnt a common occurrence. when i think of accuracy, i think guys like brees, who can throw a dart back shoulder pass in tight coverage, that hits his main in the chest, a pass that dbs never had a chance of defending. does this sound like schaub at all?

non elite qbs that would thrive in this system-
rivers, flacco, cutler, stafford, vick, freeman, ryan, romo, newton, eli, ben, rg3, luck...

if there was such a thing as a qb friendly system, this is it.. the toughest thing about it is learning that dennys menu playbook of kubes.. its all about formation trickery and getting defenses to commit to the stretch run.
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Old 12-19-2012   #85
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by amazing80 View Post
why are so many against Yates? He played with a banged up AJ and was a true rookie who started the season as the 3rd qb. Did any of you really think we would win a super bowl? The guy has all the tools to be good and offers things Matt doesn't, stronger arm and MUCH more mobile than Matt ever dreamt of being.

What about clinching our first playoff game without AJ, could Matt have done that...not 100% confident in that one especially with Foster being held in check all game.....

Not saying Yates is the GOAT, but IMO he will be MUCH better than Schaub ever has been or will be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4VOLPxKlis

Still gives me chills

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wV-u6Vnr7o

Notice AJ did not have to stop and come back and make a spectacular grab over a defender?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLfGMN9ocVQ

What about on the run?

Sure he will make mistakes in the beginning, but Yates has all the tools to be great in this system

While I agree with this 100%, I have my doubts that Kubiak will ever give Yates the chance he needs. I think Kubiak has found a QB (Schaub) that he can control and will run his system his way. I think Yates could be trade bait this coming offseason and if he were to get with another team and get a chance he's got the potential to be quite good.
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Old 12-19-2012   #86
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I agree with most of your posts on Schaub and Yates but this is spot on. The Texans have a 1-3 year window to let drafts fall to them and find someone who doesn't have to be an immediate starter but has the potential to be elite. No reason to force it but also no reason to pass up a good opportunity because it isn't a top need.
Perfect....... exactly how I feel.

I've not been a Schaub fan... actually I said I loved that guy in 2009. Recently I'm working on a train of thought that says we don't have the talent at the WR position for Kubiak or Matt to trust themselves to sling it on every down, unless they really have to.

If LeStar, Posey, & Martin can turn into productive, trust worthy receivers before Andre flames out, we might see an elite QB in the very near future.

As far as Tj goes, he's the perfect QB for us now.... to back up Matt Schaub.
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Old 12-19-2012   #87
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
A few things here.

You people that continually keep bashing Matt Schaub have no ability to observe what a good QB is in the NFL. Sorry, if that sounds harsh, but Schaub continually has sustained himself as a top 10 QB and has led this team to a 12-2 record this season, and in case you guys haven't noticed the Texans are currently "3rd" in PPG for scoring in the entire league. And yet you guys have the adacity to act like Schaub isn't doing his job???? There can only be like 3 to 4 elite QB's in this league. And for you guys who want him gone or who constantly bash the guy, please suggest how a better replacement would come here? Who?? Where are the Texans going to get this elite QB from, because the next step above Schaub is an elite guy.


Now as for Yates, I'm sorry but only homers who root for the Texans think that this guy is something that is even remotely good. There wasn't any National attention being brought to the great play of TJ Yates, because there wasn't any. Yates did nothing but hand the ball off and make check down passes with an occassional down the field throw. He didn't even show any ability to make things happen on his own, he didn't show any great arm, and he was just an average QB for a rookie even. Until I see these same fans repping guys like Gabbert and Locker, then I'll just laugh at these Tj Yates comments, because it's laughable to ever suggest he should be a future starter here and to even remotely suggest that he can do better then Schaub is the poorest assessment I've ever read in a football discussion after the consistency that Schaub has shown for this team year after year. Yates looked like complete trash in the pre season this year as well. He didn't show one ounce of improvement, and that is what young QB's on the rise generally show if they are going to be the heir to the throne.

Yates = Jason Campbell, Blain Gabbert.

Most people want an upgrade to their starting QB and want to look for an elite guy. They don't look for the next Jason Campbell just because they think the guy is a nice guy or because he was some rookie that played on a great team where he got to play in the playoffs and stunk up the field against the Ravens.

Incorrect, the NFL voted Yates the most valuable back up and most wanted QB......it was a story earlier in the season.....No one here is claiming he is the next Tom Brady, but the guy surely provides upside

And Schaub is BARELY top 10, if he even is....so its not like we're moving on from a prime top 5 qb, give schaub another season or 2 then evaluate him and move on
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Old 12-19-2012   #88
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I like Yates. I don't see where this Yates hate comes from.

If you look at him and Dalton they had similar rookie seasons. Biggest difference was just Dalton playing more. Yates also played a bunch without Andre.

I like Yates a lot actually. He's better than what some are giving him credit for.
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Old 12-19-2012   #89
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by amazing80 View Post
Incorrect, the NFL voted Yates the most valuable back up and most wanted QB......it was a story earlier in the season.....No one here is claiming he is the next Tom Brady, but the guy surely provides upside

And Schaub is BARELY top 10, if he even is....so its not like we're moving on from a prime top 5 qb, give schaub another season or 2 then evaluate him and move on
I think Matt is capped by the talent he has at the WR position, so I think it is premature to talk about future solutions. Even his durability concerns are wildly overstated. I think our running game is about to get to where it was last year before Schaub got hurt last year & more people are going to see him masterfully direct this offense.

Tj Yates is simply more talented than Schaub. To not admit that is dishonest at best. I don't think he is Schaub replacement. But I think he's as good as any prospect we could find in the fourth or later. As been stated before, when Kubiak feels it's time to moved on, he'll move on.
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Old 12-19-2012   #90
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

What's with the TJ bashing. He was a rookie last year right? 5th round pick even. We were supposed to have Leinart as a back up btw. For a late pick, 3rd string QB and given the entire situation he filled in nicely. I have no clue how high his ceiling is, but perhaps there is potential there. I think he can be a solid back up at this point, not sure what beyond that, I personally haven't seen enough of him since his rookie year to know much more (and that's a good thing). Not pouring on the love or pouring on the hate, just trying to be fair here. I'd need a bigger sample size and see how is development is coming.

Remember how certain every one was about Kareem Jackson.
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Old 12-19-2012   #91
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
I like Yates. I don't see where this Yates hate comes from.

If you look at him and Dalton they had similar rookie seasons. Biggest difference was just Dalton playing more.

I like Yates a lot actually.
Some people see him as a threat to Schaub.
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Old 12-19-2012   #92
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
And I disagree that Yates was ever Kubiak's "next big boy". Schaub is the only QB Kubiak has spent significant resources to acquire. Think about it. Every other QB Smithiak has brought is was 5th round or lower.
I would assume that every QB Kubiak drafts, he intends to some day take over, which inherently means that he is selecting QBs to be the next guy at the controls. Otherwise Kubiak is just drafting backups??? He could go get a backup if he wanted a backup (Leinart, Orlovsky, Rex, Couch, etc.).

Your idea almost makes it sound like Kubiak doesn't think Kubiak is smart enough to find a future Texans QB in the draft, the long-term solution as a guy like Schaub begins to fade or gets hurt and cannot play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
I like Yates. I don't see where this Yates hate comes from.

If you look at him and Dalton they had similar rookie seasons. Biggest difference was just Dalton playing more. Yates also played a bunch without Andre.

I like Yates a lot actually. He's better than what some are giving him credit for.
Whoa. I would never put Yates on the same level of Dalton. You must not be watching Dalton much if you think those two guys are relatively the same.

Andy Dalton is a pretty good QB stuck on a team who has one major WR threat and inconsistency in the backfield. I'd take Andy Dalton over TJ Yates in a heartbeat.

And this whole bull**** of "hate" is dumb. Come on, man. It's not hate...it's just saying that he had a full off-season, a full camp, and even in preseason games vs. 3rd stringers...Yates looked really, really, REALLY bad. And I was one of the biggest Yates pumpers out here back in the off-season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore Texan View Post
What's with the TJ bashing. He was a rookie last year right? 5th round pick even. We were supposed to have Leinart as a back up btw. For a late pick, 3rd string QB and given the entire situation he filled in nicely. I have no clue how high his ceiling is, but perhaps there is potential there. I think he can be a solid back up at this point, not sure what beyond that, I personally haven't seen enough of him since his rookie year to know much more (and that's a good thing). Not pouring on the love or pouring on the hate, just trying to be fair here. I'd need a bigger sample size and see how is development is coming.

Remember how certain every one was about Kareem Jackson.
Kareem Jackson doesn't handle the ball on every snap, either. The QB does.

Look, like I told rey: I was excited to see TJ Yates in the preseason because of all the extra work he received in off-season and camp (due to Schaub being out). Well, I was completely shocked. He looked worse, a lot worse.

Sure, he could become something. That shouldn't stop Kubiak from drafting a QB every year and maybe even thinking one day soon about the idea of pulling the trigger on a QB a bit higher than round 5.
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Old 12-19-2012   #93
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

Depending on how the rest of the season plays out.....I think Schaub has the potential to be considered the lower end of elite. He has (like Tom Brady) the benefit of playing in and mastering the playbook by being in the same system for years. I am NOT saying Matt is Tom, but simply saying that with his intelligence and experience in the same system for an extended amount of time, he can become a very good QB. He just needs post season wins now to help his career resume.

As for TJ, I like him, but the jury is still out on his future potential.
Either way, I don't think QB is an issue at the present time.
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Old 12-19-2012   #94
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Look, like I told rey: I was excited to see TJ Yates in the preseason because of all the extra work he received in off-season and camp (due to Schaub being out). Well, I was completely shocked. He looked worse, a lot worse.
Go back and look at how many rookies, new players and people who didn't even make the team Yates was playing with.

And his O-line was pretty much non existent. Even Kubiak mentioned that it was hard for him to do much because the O-line was playing so poorly.
I remember a few times where it literally looked like the O-line wasn't even out there.

Against New Orleans he was sacked 5 times. There wasn't a game he played in where he didn't get crazy pressure in his face and went un-sacked.

And still despite that, his numbers weren't even terrible for the most part.

I know it's about more than numbers, but as I recall my memory from those games I though Yates looked like a guy that could only do so much because of the people around him. Had he gotten some reps with the first team I think he'd have looked better. More like the guy that showed promise the year before.


Oh and what's dumb is nit picking on words. Would you rather I said non-love? Or dislike? disdain? Who cares....Was just using a word that showed strong dislike which is exact what some of these posts I've read express.
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Old 12-19-2012   #95
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

I need that popcorn emoticon.
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Old 12-19-2012   #96
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

I like our QB situation.

You can't have an All-Pro at every position .

At least Schaub made the Pro-Bowl without being "sexy".
He isn't elite, but he's still the King of Play Action.

Yates is regarded highly around the league as a good back-up QB, and that will do for now.

Every now and then, Kubiak was asked about Keenum, and he always said that the guy will play in this league for a long time.
Kubiak does not say this about many young players.
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Old 12-19-2012   #97
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by SrslySirius View Post
Thread title says future solution. Matt Schaub is 31 years old.
Exactly! I'd also like a QB that can see that receivers are covered and will tuck it and run if 6 yards are available.
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Old 12-19-2012   #98
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
I like Yates. I don't see where this Yates hate comes from.

If you look at him and Dalton they had similar rookie seasons. Biggest difference was just Dalton playing more. Yates also played a bunch without Andre.

I like Yates a lot actually. He's better than what some are giving him credit for.
I'm not sure if we know what the Texans have in Yates yet. I don't think last year was a large enough sample size.
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Old 12-19-2012   #99
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by TexanSam View Post
I'm not sure if we know what the Texans have in Yates yet. I don't think last year was a large enough sample size.
Yet this thread is started by a guy who wants to trade draft picks for Kirk Cousins. 1 game.

The chances of Cousins being a starting QB in this league is about the same as Tj Yates.
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Old 12-19-2012   #100
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

Here's what Kubiak had to say about Keenum the Friday before the Pats game.

(on QB Case Keenum’s role preparing for the Patriots’ quick offense) “Actually (QB) T.J. (Yates) gets the bulk of it, but (QB) Case (Keenum) kind of plays everywhere. Case has done a wonderful job this year. I think he’s got a bright future in this league. I’m looking forward to these next eight weeks, but I’m really looking forward to his future coming back after a year with our team because he’s made a lot of progress. He knows what’s going on. He’s going to be very competitive come next year.”
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