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Old 12-24-2012   #241
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by Norg View Post
its really bad when the top F/A QBs next year are Jason cambell and Matt moore

and i dont follow the QB class that much but that looks grimm esp when we pick in the top 20's

u think the Ravens will release Flacco ...????? ehhhh IDK


David carr Vince young Tebow anybody LOL
You forgot Jamarcus Russel....
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Old 12-24-2012   #242
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by Premier View Post
schaub doesnt change protection at the line and blitzers shoot the gap, then folks blame the o-line.. how much blame was put on the o-line yesterday for schaubs failures..
See this is what i'm talking about right here.


protection at the LOS is 9 out of 10 times a collaborative effort between the center and the qb. The center anchors the O-line guys & lets them know who they need to pick up & the qb ID's the mike backer & shuffles his backs as he needs to. The lone exception to this is probably Manning who basically does everything.

But for whatever reason folks here think that this job solely falls on Schaub when it's not even the case for 98% of league qbs including some elites.

If Schaub is solely responsible for this, then why the hell did we spend so much money to bring back Meyers?
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Old 12-24-2012   #243
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
See this is what i'm talking about right here.


protection at the LOS is 9 out of 10 times a collaborative effort between the center and the qb. The center anchors the O-line guys & lets them know who they need to pick up & the qb ID's the mike backer & shuffles his backs as he needs to. The lone exception to this is probably Manning who basically does everything.

But for whatever reason folks here think that this job solely falls on Schaub when it's not even the case for 98% of league qbs including some elites.

If Schaub is solely responsible for this, then why the hell did we spend so much money to bring back Meyers?
The center identifies who to block AFTER the QB makes his protection calls.

I have no idea who missed what assignment and who didn't do what and neither does anyone else in here.

Just pointing out that the QB is the catalyst. The QB can see the field better than anyone else when they are set. He can see guys creeping up from the outside...He can see the entire formation.

The Center mostly identifies and communicates...The QB is the one who sets up the protection.

He's supposed to know who is blocking who and who might be free and when to get the ball out hot.

Now if guys aren't picking up their assignments correctly or having mental breakdowns that's on them. But setting up the blocking and knowing who is coming and who might come through free is on the QB to know and deal with.
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Old 12-24-2012   #244
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, Eli, Brees, Matt Ryan, Luck, Griffin, Big Ben, Tebow. Unless you can get one of those guys, an immediate upgrade of Schaub is a moot point. If you don't have one of the true franchise guys then you should always be looking for someone to develop into that tier of Qb. Kubiak is supposed to be a Qb guy, so the search should always be on. Personally, I would love for Kubiak to draft a Qb in the second or third rounds every year he sees someone he thinks could possibly develop into that kind of Qb, until he has one that can beat out Schaub for the job. If an elite Qb prospect comes out trade up if necessary to take him. Imagine this roster with one of the guys listed above. It would be very scary.
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Old 12-24-2012   #245
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

For the record, Tebow was a joke so don't rip me too bad.
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Old 12-24-2012   #246
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

Its to the point I would take Sanchez over Schaub. YES I am completely serious.
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Old 12-24-2012   #247
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
The center identifies who to block AFTER the QB makes his protection calls.

I have no idea who missed what assignment and who didn't do what and neither does anyone else in here.

Just pointing out that the QB is the catalyst. The QB can see the field better than anyone else when they are set. He can see guys creeping up from the outside...He can see the entire formation.

The Center mostly identifies and communicates...The QB is the one who sets up the protection.

He's supposed to know who is blocking who and who might be free and when to get the ball out hot.


Now if guys aren't picking up their assignments correctly or having mental breakdowns that's on them. But setting up the blocking and knowing who is coming and who might come through free is on the QB to know and deal with.
i.e. a colloborative effort So now it just comes down to common sense then. Since the GB game where it was effective i've seen teams routinely make it part a huge part of their strategy to shoot someone in the "A" gap between Meyers & Smith & blow up whatever we're trying to.

With the Packers it was mostly Matthews with a little bit of AJ Hawk
With the Patriots is was mostly Mayo
With the Vikings if i recall i saw it a little with harrison smith & some other guy.

So the question is do some here really believe that schaub himself is purposely not adjusting protection to account for a blitzer coming right in front of him over the center or is it reasonable to assume that between meyers and smith, someone's missing an assignment? I only say this b/c a lot of the times, those guys are coming in fairly clean which would lead me to think that there's some confusion up front with the line.

My opinion is that there's absolutely no way a qb doesn't account for a blitzer coming up the middle....that's pretty much the holy trinity of the pocket b/c no qb like being pressured up the middle like that unless they have a screen called.
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Old 12-24-2012   #248
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

There's been 1st round QB picks that were busts and lower round picks that became stars. I've never been a big fan of trading lots of picks for a single person. There are very few players on the planet that are elite NFL QB material. There are three, maybe four QBs in the NFL right now that are elite.
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Old 12-24-2012   #249
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
There's been 1st round QB picks that were busts and lower round picks that became stars. I've never been a big fan of trading lots of picks for a single person. There are very few players on the planet that are elite NFL QB material. There are three, maybe four QBs in the NFL right now that are elite.
By definition there can only be a few elite Qb's. However, there are 10 or so Qb's right now that are good enough to carry an offense at a super bowl level, and they have been drafted anywhere from the first pick to the 199th pick. Qb's come from all over the draft becuase lots of guys have the physical tools to be really good Qb's, it's the mental aspects and the development of said player that are they major factors to a player reaching his full potential. I want to believe that Kubiak can be the guy to develop a Qb properly. It's never to early to look for the your heir apparent at Qb, look at the patriots with Mallet.
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Old 12-24-2012   #250
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
i.e. a colloborative effort So now it just comes down to common sense then. Since the GB game where it was effective i've seen teams routinely make it part a huge part of their strategy to shoot someone in the "A" gap between Meyers & Smith & blow up whatever we're trying to.

With the Packers it was mostly Matthews with a little bit of AJ Hawk
With the Patriots is was mostly Mayo
With the Vikings if i recall i saw it a little with harrison smith & some other guy.

So the question is do some here really believe that schaub himself is purposely not adjusting protection to account for a blitzer coming right in front of him over the center or is it reasonable to assume that between meyers and smith, someone's missing an assignment? I only say this b/c a lot of the times, those guys are coming in fairly clean which would lead me to think that there's some confusion up front with the line.

My opinion is that there's absolutely no way a qb doesn't account for a blitzer coming up the middle....that's pretty much the holy trinity of the pocket b/c no qb like being pressured up the middle like that unless they have a screen called.
Spot on series of posts.

People are exaggerating the hell out of things right now.

On a different note, I may have missed it, but I haven't seen anyone mention the unusual number of dropped balls yesterday. They listed it at 3 midway thru the 2nd - I think there were 5 on the day. The whole offense was off except for AJ.

OK back to the regularly scheduled Schaub bashing.

Oh and for the record - I said in the draft forum the Texans should be looking to draft a QB in the next 1-3 rounds. They are in a good spot to not have to force the issue until they see what they want but they shouldn't hesitate to take someone they like even a high round pick either.
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Old 12-24-2012   #251
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i.e. a colloborative effort So now it just comes down to common sense then. Since the GB game where it was effective i've seen teams routinely make it part a huge part of their strategy to shoot someone in the "A" gap between Meyers & Smith & blow up whatever we're trying to.

With the Packers it was mostly Matthews with a little bit of AJ Hawk
With the Patriots is was mostly Mayo
With the Vikings if i recall i saw it a little with harrison smith & some other guy.

So the question is do some here really believe that schaub himself is purposely not adjusting protection to account for a blitzer coming right in front of him over the center or is it reasonable to assume that between meyers and smith, someone's missing an assignment? I only say this b/c a lot of the times, those guys are coming in fairly clean which would lead me to think that there's some confusion up front with the line.

My opinion is that there's absolutely no way a qb doesn't account for a blitzer coming up the middle....that's pretty much the holy trinity of the pocket b/c no qb like being pressured up the middle like that unless they have a screen called.
Like I said, we don't know and can't know unless we are in those meeting rooms and on the practice field. Normally you wouldn't want a guy coming right up the middle free, but there are some cases where you'd have a rb pick that guy up. Could be the o line not reading it correctly...could be they are overloading somewhere...could be a bad protection call...


I have no idea.

What I do know is that Matt doesn't handle pressure in his face well at all. I mean...no qb likes pressure in their face, but some handle it better than others...Matt is pretty much useless with any kind of pressure from the inside...no side step...very little maneuverability, doesn't have the arm to consistently throw accurately from awkward positions and on the run.

And the o line is not blameless at all. Just saying that it's not a crime to acknowledge that he has some pretty stark limitations to his game.
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Old 12-24-2012   #252
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

texans should give me a tryout, i can throw a football over those mountains, plus i dont get scary feet and ball up when a defender puts a hand on me!!

seriously. get mike vick here ASAP.
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Old 12-24-2012   #253
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

It'll be interesting to see what Smithiak thinks of Keenum's progress.

I agree with a lot of the posts about the OL not playing well. It takes time for them to gel and Kubiak's been mixing and matching all season long.
I've never been a fan of OL rotations.
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Old 12-24-2012   #254
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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texans should give me a tryout, i can throw a football over those mountains, plus i dont get scary feet and ball up when a defender puts a hand on me!!

seriously. get mike vick here ASAP.
I'm all for it. You looked pretty accurate here.

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Old 12-24-2012   #255
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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You brought up the point that the Texans could tank for the next few years and secure a number one draft pick. I countered that the Texans pretty much sucked up until a few years back. Why didn't we get that elite QB then?
NO gets Brees. Denver gets Manning. Giants get younger Manning. Packers get Rodgers. San Fran has two pretty damn good QB's, how did that happen?
Heck, even Washington gets RG III..
Let's review the draft picks we got during those years. And let's assume that a QB of the caliber you specified would HAVE to be drafted in the first round OR that we'd have to give up our first round picks for two years in succession (that's what trading up would have cost) to grab such a quality QB.

2008 - Duane Brown
2009 - Brian Cushing
2010 - Kareem Jackson
2011 - J.J. Watt
2012 - Whitney Mercilus

Which two of those guys are you willing to give up? And who was out there that we would have drafted or traded to get.

Before you list Peyton, think about how much he would have cost salary cap-wise. I don't know for sure, but I doubt we could have paid Duane Brown and Foster if we had Peyton's salary on our books.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for upgrading the QB spot. What sane fan wouldn't be? But I'm like Tex. All this "we need to replace Schaub" yelling without specifying WHO or laying out a PLAN is just whining.

Only the backwards possuM has even bothered to make a list of prospects in the upcoming draft. I'll give him credit for that. I'd like to see some of the draftniks comment on his selections, since I'll admit I don't study college ball like those guys.

And I'd take a Russell Wilson or Kapernick(sp?) type to groom for a year or two and then let him start.

Comments, folks??
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Old 12-24-2012   #256
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
i.e. a colloborative effort So now it just comes down to common sense then. Since the GB game where it was effective i've seen teams routinely make it part a huge part of their strategy to shoot someone in the "A" gap between Meyers & Smith & blow up whatever we're trying to.

With the Packers it was mostly Matthews with a little bit of AJ Hawk
With the Patriots is was mostly Mayo
With the Vikings if i recall i saw it a little with harrison smith & some other guy.

So the question is do some here really believe that schaub himself is purposely not adjusting protection to account for a blitzer coming right in front of him over the center or is it reasonable to assume that between meyers and smith, someone's missing an assignment? I only say this b/c a lot of the times, those guys are coming in fairly clean which would lead me to think that there's some confusion up front with the line.

My opinion is that there's absolutely no way a qb doesn't account for a blitzer coming up the middle....that's pretty much the holy trinity of the pocket b/c no qb like being pressured up the middle like that unless they have a screen called.

My god you are all over the place trying to make excuses for Schuab. Look it's simple. Schaub is well versed in this offense and runs it well enough for the team to win many games. I don't think any reasonable person will argue differently. And yes the OL had breakdowns and were largely responsible for Schaubs crappy play. And yes even elite QB's don't play as well when pressured. Only an insane person would say different.

The problem is that if any part of the offense breaks down, the OL, the running game or the WR,s dropping passes, Schaub doesn't have the ability to make a play on his own. There almost a ZERO percent chance of anything positive happening.

Here's where you come back with "only the elites can do that" crap. No! Not true. Schaub is exceptionally horrible under pressure. He does it every game. The slightest hint of pressure and he's throwing the ball away. Most of the time he's just a simple side step or step up from extending the play. And most of the time if he were able to do that there are open guys. Those few plays every game are huge opportunities that are being wasted.

Obviously there is no one that could replace him at this moment. However the sooner Kubiak pulls his head out of his ass (just like McNair made him do with his defensive coordinators) and start looking for someone that can take this team to the next level. The sooner he will find one. Until then we will win a lot of game but never be serious Super Bowl contenders.

Schaubs lack of mobility and inability extend any plays is going to handcuff this team against top competition. To many things are going to have to fall in line for us to ever even make it to the Super Bowl. The good thing is we are a young team so there is time to Find our QB. The bad news is Kubiak is loyal to a fault and Schaub isn't going to improve in his biggest area of weakness.
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Old 12-24-2012   #257
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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You lose any cred when you mention Yates. I'm tired of talking about him or even discussing his name. He's back up. He'll always be a back up. Get over it and accept it or go root for another team, because Schaub isn't going anywhere any time soon. You say you agreed with what I just wrote, but then start bringing up a sorry ass 6th rounder who played like trash at this time last season, so you're a total contradiction to even suggest Yates. I'm all for hearing about other guys in the up coming drafts. I'd like to find a Schaub replacement for the future, but I want a guy who looks like a can't miss where the margin of error on the guy is very slim. You want a guy that can be an average starter at best if he hits his peak completely. It is no point in me discussing QB's with you because you aren't even suggesting anything that has value to the discussion at this point.
I'm on your side of this "discussion" but that "can't miss" statement is a slippery slope. No way Wilson lasts to the 3rd round or Tom Brady lasts until the 6th round or San Diego gives up on Drew Brees for Phillip Rivers (yeah, in hindsight that was stupid) if folks knew then what they know now. No way Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russell or Vince Young go so high if folks knew then what they know now.

I know what you mean, you want, we all want, a QB with a great football IQ (at least that's first on my list), accuracy, good-to-great arm strength and accuracy to go with it, and above average mobility. And lastly, maybe more important that some others, a "find a way to win" mentality that infects every other member of the offense.

Case Keenum showed that in college. Can it transfer to the NFL? Who knows. Is yates that guy? I haven't really seen it in him.

I'm pretty sure these aren't the last two QBs Smithiak will target. The search is on-going.
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Old 12-24-2012   #258
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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texans should give me a tryout, i can throw a football over those mountains, plus i dont get scary feet and ball up when a defender puts a hand on me!!

seriously. get mike vick here ASAP.
Yeah, because that has worked out so well for Philly.


Good lord this has become the worst board in the NFL over night. A guy who has had two horrible back to back seasons is now the guy that should replace Schaub. Wow.
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Old 12-24-2012   #259
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
Really I wouldn't mind seeing us draft any of these guys to push Yates for the backup sopt.
Tyler Wilson, QB, Arkansas
Height: 6-3. Weight: 220.
Projected 40 Time: 4.80.
Projected Round (2013): 1-2.
Wilson completed 62 percent of his passes for 3,387 yards, 21 touchdowns and 13 interceptions in 2012.

Tyler Bray*, QB, Tennessee
Height: 6-6. Weight: 210.
Projected 40 Time: 4.82.
Projected Round (2013): 1-3.
12/1/12: Bray had a bunch of uneven games this year. He was repeatedly been hurt by dropped passes, but also had some shaky decision-making. The junior completed 59 percent of his passes this season, collecting 3,612 yards, 34 touchdowns and 12 interceptions.

Landry "Lance" Jones, QB, Oklahoma
Height: 6-4. Weight: 216.
Projected 40 Time: 4.81.
Projected Round (2013): 1-3.
12/1/12: Jones has completed 66 percent of his passes for 3,745 yards, 27 touchdowns and nine interceptions.

Tajh Boyd*, QB, Clemson
Height: 6-1. Weight: 225.
Projected 40 Time: 4.63.
Projected Round (2013): 1-3.
12/1/12: Boyd has completed 67 percent of his passes this year for 3,550 yards, 34 touchdowns and 13 interceptions. He has run for 706 yards (492 net) and nine touchdowns, too.

Ryan Nassib, Syracuse
Height: 6-2. Weight: 229.
Projected 40 Time: 4.80.
Projected Round (2013): 2-3.
12/1/12: Nassib has completed 63 percent of his passes for 3,619 yards, 24 touchdowns and nine interceptions this year. He has displayed intelligence and accuracy this season.


Mike Glennon, QB, N.C. State
Height: 6-6. Weight: 232.
Projected 40 Time: 4.61.
Projected Round (2013): 2-3.
12/1/12: Glennon has completed 57 percent of his passes for 3,648 yards, 30 touchdowns and 14 interceptions. He has played better than his numbers indicate.

Aaron Murray*, QB, Georgia
Height: 6-1. Weight: 211.
Projected 40 Time: 4.81.
Projected Round (2013): 2-4.
12/1/12: Murray has completed 67 percent of his passes in 2012 for 3,201 yards, 30 touchdowns and seven interceptions

E.J. Manuel, QB, Florida State
Height: 6-5. Weight: 234.
Projected 40 Time: 4.61.
Projected Round (2013): 3-4.
12/1/12: Manuel is one of the most improved draft prospects in the nation. His accuracy and field vision have really made strides from 2011. He is elevating from a game manager to a play-maker. Manuel has completed 67 percent of his passes for 2,972 yards, 22 touchdowns and 16 interceptions this season. He has run the ball well for the Seminoles also.

Zac Dysert, QB, Miami of Ohio
Height: 6-4. Weight: 228.
Projected 40 Time: 4.79.
Projected Round (2013): 3-5.
12/1/12: Dysert has completed 63 percent of his passes for 3,483 yards, 25 touchdowns and 12 interceptions in 2012.

Colin Klein, QB, Kansas State
Height: 6-5. Weight: 226.
Projected 40 Time: 4.72.
Projected Round (2013): 5-7.
12/1/12: Klein has been one of the best players in college football this season. He has been a superb play-maker who has carried the Wildcats to a great season.

Klein's completed 67 percent of his passes for 2,306 yards, 14 touchdowns and six interceptions this year. The senior has also ran for 20 touchdowns. He ran for 1,141 yards and 27 touchdowns in 2011 while throwing for 1,918 yards with 13 touchdowns and six interceptions.
All of these guys have good potential. Kubiak is supposed to be a QB guru. Obviously the list will shrink after the interviews, workouts and combine. But this is a pretty talented group with a lot of natural ability and good size/measureables. Don't get me wrong they all have their faults and there isn't any obvious franchise types but A few of these guys with the right coaching could turn out to be pretty dam good.
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Old 12-24-2012   #260
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Default Re: Possible future QB solution?

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Yeah, because that has worked out so well for Philly.


Good lord this has become the worst board in the NFL over night. A guy who has had two horrible back to back seasons is now the guy that should replace Schaub. Wow.
Relax man the board is fine, I am pretty sure most of us don't want a turnover prone Vick.

Also we don't need a fast Qb than can run, that is just a plus. To me, mobility isn't being able to scramble for 50 yards, it's being able to slide and shift in the pocket and escape it from time to time with the intention to throw it. Mobility is about crafty movement and shiftiness not speed. In the 2013 draft, the only Qb's I think are really worth drafting are Geno Smith, Ryan Nassib, and Aaron Murray. None of them are worth a first rounder to me, I would spend a late second rounder on Geno Smith, Ryan Nassib, and Aaron Murry in that order. I think they all are better prospects than Yates, though i like Keenum alot. The fact that Keenum wasn't drafted makes me skeptikal though since NFL GM's are smarter than I.
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