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Texans Secondary = Hot Garbage

digitalswim

Sleepwalker
This is getting ridiculous and this is not some knee jerk reaction crap. Something is going to have to change schematically because our current strategy clearly isn't working.

These guys are getting smoked if the pass rush doesn't get there in a nano second. Wait until we play quality QB's and WR's in the playoffs.
 

CretorFrigg

Fire Rick Smith
The announcers brought this up, and I thought it was a valid question. Why don't we play more zone? Playing only man can be dangerous and leave us exposed to big plays.
 

Hagar

Drink up yall, its the Texans!
The announcers brought this up, and I thought it was a valid question. Why don't we play more zone?
Because playing man-to-man allows us to send all the free linebackers to get pressure on the QB. The strength of the defense is the front seven. This is especially true now that J.Joseph is out.
 

silvrhand

All Pro
This is getting ridiculous and this is not some knee jerk reaction crap. Something is going to have to change schematically because our current strategy clearly isn't working.

These guys are getting smoked if the pass rush doesn't get there in a nano second. Wait until we play quality QB's and WR's in the playoffs.
We play a high risk, high reward defense. which when you have most of your starting LB, and one corner down, we are definitely not the same we were early in the year.
 

SW H-TOWN

Rookie
The announcers brought this up, and I thought it was a valid question. Why don't we play more zone? Playing only man can be dangerous and leave us exposed to big plays.
I have to agree. I don't think the problem has to do with personnel. When all of our guys are healthy I see us as having a good secondary. Joseph and Manning are really good. Jackson seems to not be playing as well today as he did against Megatron but I will cut him some slack due to his performance as a whole this year.
 

LikeMike

Veteran
Losing JoJo is huge, because it moves every other CB up... Losing Ball and McCain as well means we are in trouble. That's playing without CB #1, 3, 4...

If JoJo can come back and be his old self again we should be fine!
 

srrono

All Pro
Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli

Brice McCain on crutches with a boot on his left foot. #Texans better hope Joseph is ready for Monday.
 

srrono

All Pro
Losing JoJo is huge, because it moves every other CB up... Losing Ball and McCain as well means we are in trouble. That's playing without CB #1, 3, 4...

If JoJo can come back and be his old self again we should be fine!
With HOU being this weak at CB due to injuries NE will come out and run 4&5wr sets and expose our weakness this is what they do.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Not to toot my own horn, but I said Kareem isn't ready to be a #1. He's still got a lot to learn & is still best facing the QB.

I was tempted earlier to post a thread giving the secondary props at the end of the first Qtr. They looked good. Harris, Kareem, McCain, Quin, all got hands on the ball... passes defensed & made good plays. Maning had that one where he had perfect position, had a hand on the ball, just wasn't strong enough to keep that big TE from securing the catch.

But damn. When they tested us deep..... hot garbage is about right.

The thing about it, was Locker didn't have to hold the ball long either for the deep ball. He put plenty of air under it, there was no safety anywhere. Kareem Jackson beat, just throw it out there.

Don't get me wrong, throughout the game they all made plays. It was good to see. But they got abused as well.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The announcers brought this up, and I thought it was a valid question. Why don't we play more zone? Playing only man can be dangerous and leave us exposed to big plays.
We don't have the LBs to play Zone. Been a problem of ours for a long time. Generally speaking we've had very good play making LBs. But they're usually thumpers. Demeco.... thumper, Cush... thumper, Sharpton, Dobbins..... thumper.

Their best game is attacking the LOS, getting after the QB & anybody who happens to be back there. We talked about Demeco playing sideline to sideline, & Cush, sideline to sideline. But when an offense stretches the field more than 7 or 8 yards, our LBs have always been a liability.

I will say though, Barwin & Rudd may change that. They appear to understand man, zone, & route recognition.
 

GP

Go Texans!
I don't think it's that big of a deal. Sometimes a QB and his WR are going to make great plays.

We've got an offense that's capable of scoring on every possession, but they have multiple possessions where they stall out and punt...putting our defense back onto the field.

The defense sacked the QB all day. Shut down their RB. Caused multiple interceptions, multiple fumbles. Deflected passes all day. Had great coverage on several pass plays.

I won't let a few pass plays convince me this is hot garbage.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli

Brice McCain on crutches with a boot on his left foot. #Texans better hope Joseph is ready for Monday.
I don't know about that. Roc & Harris looked pretty good for their first time out. I know it's New England & we want to win this game.

But to me, it is more important to Jjo healthy for when it really matters. Maybe we won't beat New England without him. But I think our chances are good enough against Minnesota & Indy.

Not that I know he will be healthy in 4 weeks. I don't. But if I'm GK, if he isn't 100%, if he feels a little soreness, if he walks with a little limp, if he's not running at top speed & favoring that groin..... he sits.

I wouldn't "force" him into a game until the play-offs started.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I don't know about that. Roc & Harris looked pretty good for their first time out. I know it's New England & we want to win this game.

But to me, it is more important to Jjo healthy for when it really matters. Maybe we won't beat New England without him. But I think our chances are good enough against Minnesota & Indy.

Not that I know he will be healthy in 4 weeks. I don't. But if I'm GK, if he isn't 100%, if he feels a little soreness, if he walks with a little limp, if he's not running at top speed & favoring that groin..... he sits.

I wouldn't "force" him into a game until the play-offs started.
You mean looked good despite the penalties? Harris had about 3 and Roc at least 1. I think penalties were the biggest issue today, along with having half of the defense being new starters.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Secondary is garbage.
No pass rush except for Watt
LBs can't cover.
People gas them running up the middle all day.
Just spread the Texans out and destroy them.

Schaub sucks.
What's wrong with Foster.
AJ too old; Walter can't get separation.
Dreessen is missed.
We need Vonta.
Right side of O-line will hurt Texans this year.

Fire Marciano.
Graham can't make that kick.
What's that LS doing on the roster.

11-1 baby! :texanbill:
 

Hervoyel

BUENO!
Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli

Brice McCain on crutches with a boot on his left foot. #Texans better hope Joseph is ready for Monday.
I am not happy to hear this but if Joseph comes back we'll be ok. We probably lose in New England regardless but Brice McCain borders on worthless to begin with (which says volumes about Harris and Carmichael because McCain is still playing before them).

Without Joseph we're dead in the playoffs. That's just a simple fact.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
You mean looked good despite the penalties? Harris had about 3 and Roc at least 1. I think penalties were the biggest issue today, along with having half of the defense being new starters.
The penalties are our own fault. We've had opportunities to get these guys in the game for at least two years, but didn't. They're going full-speed for the first time, snap after snap, play after play & not taking a breather in between

It's going to happen. They got it on tape, they'll talk about it, but chances are it's a big deal to both of them & they're thinking about it right now.

Again, I don't care if we loose 59 to 3 against the Pats. We'll be 11-2. I like our chances with both Roc & Harris against the Colts, Vikings, & Colts, we can forfeit that last game & finish 13-3 & have a good chance to win it if we need to be 14-2.

We need a healthy Jjo after our bye week, when the games really matter.

& yes, if we're playing that last game to secure the second seed, I'd still sit Jjo if he's not 100%. I'd force him into the game if we're playing Wild-Card weekend.

Not too worried about Brooks, I think our LBs are going to be better without him in the starting line-up. As long as everyone stays healthy, I'm not trying to force him into the game.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I am not happy to hear this but if Joseph comes back we'll be ok. We probably lose in New England regardless but Brice McCain borders on worthless to begin with (which says volumes about Harris and Carmichael because McCain is still playing before them).

Without Joseph we're dead in the playoffs. That's just a simple fact.
Really, despite the obvious errors, I'm liking what I'm seeing from both Harris & Roc over what we've seen from McCain. May look a little skewed since we're watching Roc & Brandon screw up, but their screw ups "equal" McCains alone.

When Jjo comes back, it'll only be one or the other out there screwing up, which I think will be less than McCain.
 
Losing JoJo is huge, because it moves every other CB up... Losing Ball and McCain as well means we are in trouble. That's playing without CB #1, 3, 4...

If JoJo can come back and be his old self again we should be fine!
Exactly.

I was actually impressed with the D considering they were down 3 of their original 4 starting linebackers and 3 of their top 4 CBs.

They still gave up plays and that's not a good thing, but if the O could have produced a decent drive once in the 2nd half it might have made a difference. We can't live with 10 Donnie Jones punts a game. That's inexcusable for an offense with this much talent.
 

Hervoyel

BUENO!
Really, despite the obvious errors, I'm liking what I'm seeing from both Harris & Roc over what we've seen from McCain. May look a little skewed since we're watching Roc & Brandon screw up, but their screw ups "equal" McCains alone.

When Jjo comes back, it'll only be one or the other out there screwing up, which I think will be less than McCain.

I hope you're right. I think we've seen McCain's best and we've got four more games to try and find out if Harris or Carmichael can do as well or better.
 

EllisUnit

Vote RED!!!
The announcers brought this up, and I thought it was a valid question. Why don't we play more zone? Playing only man can be dangerous and leave us exposed to big plays.
HMMMM dont know what yall were seeing but to me when we were playing nearly 100% man early in the game we were shutting them down, Then in the 4th we go to this safe defense and give up 15, 20 every play. Havent we all come to expect this when we get a lead ?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Not to toot my own horn, but I said Kareem isn't ready to be a #1. He's still got a lot to learn & is still best facing the QB.

I was tempted earlier to post a thread giving the secondary props at the end of the first Qtr. They looked good. Harris, Kareem, McCain, Quin, all got hands on the ball... passes defensed & made good plays. Maning had that one where he had perfect position, had a hand on the ball, just wasn't strong enough to keep that big TE from securing the catch.

But damn. When they tested us deep..... hot garbage is about right.

The thing about it, was Locker didn't have to hold the ball long either for the deep ball. He put plenty of air under it, there was no safety anywhere. Kareem Jackson beat, just throw it out there.

Don't get me wrong, throughout the game they all made plays. It was good to see. But they got abused as well.
So who are the 32 CBs in this league that you consider as better than Jackson?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
When we play zone under R Smith & Bush, people complaint about it.

Wade is a guy who prefers man coverage a major portion of the time and people wants him to go zone ! :thinking:
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Agree i only saw 1 bad play by KJ today on the long Td where he got beat, but i saw him make A LOT of good plays.
I need to rewatch that; I think perhaps he was gambling on an inside route and was wanting to have an early jump and couldn't recover.
 

Premier

Rookie
we have the dbs good enough to play man, not a ton of teams can do that. jax game had a limping jjo, lions game had ball on megatron for a half, and todays game no jjo or mccain, and the titans scored 10 points.. we will need a healthy jjo against brady. thankfully no gronk for this game..
 

Texn4life

All Pro
I need to rewatch that; I think perhaps he was gambling on an inside route and was wanting to have an early jump and couldn't recover.
That's what I saw too. Don't forget he jumped a slant route and took it to the house last time we played the Titans. I think he thought they were going back to that route and gambled. It happens.
 

EllisUnit

Vote RED!!!
I need to rewatch that; I think perhaps he was gambling on an inside route and was wanting to have an early jump and couldn't recover.
possibly but regardless he still got beat, not hating on him he made way more good plays today than bad, but he looked inside, the WR went outside and KJ couldnt catch up. So all in all he still got beat. BUT he had a damn good day other than that one play
 

Texn4life

All Pro
You guys are rough man. We played the majority of the game with 2 guys in the secondary who haven't been on the field all year. I guess we have to find something to complain about.
 

TEXANRED

Texan-American
This is getting ridiculous and this is not some knee jerk reaction crap. Something is going to have to change schematically because our current strategy clearly isn't working.

These guys are getting smoked if the pass rush doesn't get there in a nano second. Wait until we play quality QB's and WR's in the playoffs.
We are down to our 4th string CB. What do you expect.

JJO, Ball, McCain, hurt.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
So who are the 32 CBs in this league that you consider as better than Jackson?
For the years where Dunta started for this team, we didn't have a #1. Same thing happens all over the league. Just because McCain started today, doesn't make him a #2 any more than it makes Kareem a #1
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Agree i only saw 1 bad play by KJ today on the long Td where he got beat, but i saw him make A LOT of good plays.
He made some plays. I'm not denying that. Brandon Harris made some plays. Roc Carmichael made some plays. But their "mistakes" makes them a wash.

If Kareem had made an INT on that play where Brit grabbed his helmet.... I'd say that would make up for the "mistakes"

That was perfect coverage by the way & if he could have located that ball.... man.... that would have been sweet.


That's what I saw too. Don't forget he jumped a slant route and took it to the house last time we played the Titans. I think he thought they were going back to that route and gambled. It happens.
He jumped a post route today & broke up a sure TD.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
possibly but regardless he still got beat, not hating on him he made way more good plays today than bad, but he looked inside, the WR went outside and KJ couldnt catch up. So all in all he still got beat. BUT he had a damn good day other than that one play
When I said "couldn't recover", it automatically means "got beat".

But I remember somebody said once that it's good to see a guy gamble once in a while.

He got credited for 2 PDs and was on the tail of the receivers many times, not allowing them time and space to adjust to the throw.

He was solid in tackling, too.

Overall, I would say he had a decent day.
 

EllisUnit

Vote RED!!!
When I said "couldn't recover", it automatically means "got beat".

But I remember somebody said once that it's good to see a guy gamble once in a while.

He got credited for 2 PDs and was on the tail of the receivers many times, not allowing them time and space to adjust to the throw.

He was solid in tackling, too.

Overall, I would say he had a decent day.
I said he had a good day and made A LOT of plays, just noting he got beat once. You should know i would note that ;)
 

klockWork

Rookie
I wish Wade stop dialing so many blitz and leaving those cb's on an island. Most of our sacks and pressure come from 4 man rush. If Titans WRs hadn't drop so many passes on those blitz play we probably be playing our 3rd straight OTs.

But it was the offense that's most disappointing. 6+ in turnovers and they manage 1 score from it.
 

fiasco west

All Pro
Secondary is garbage.
No pass rush except for Watt
LBs can't cover.
People gas them running up the middle all day.
Just spread the Texans out and destroy them.

Schaub sucks.
What's wrong with Foster.
AJ too old; Walter can't get separation.
Dreessen is missed.
We need Vonta.
Right side of O-line will hurt Texans this year.

Fire Marciano.
Graham can't make that kick.
What's that LS doing on the roster.

11-1 baby! :texanbill:
All great points.

This team is just complete trash.
 

EllisUnit

Vote RED!!!
I wish Wade stop dialing so many blitz and leaving those cb's on an island. Most of our sacks and pressure come from 4 man rush. If Titans WRs hadn't drop so many passes on those blitz play we probably be playing our 3rd straight OTs.

But it was the offense that's most disappointing. 6+ in turnovers and they manage 1 score from it.
Well kubiak went into a shell EARLY in this one, and after AJ has the best 2 game stretch ever in the NFL the dont utilize him at all in this game. Didnt go down the field very often either, Next week he wont be able to go into a shell so should be a lot more interesting.

Jean looked good today, saw him on the field a lot today also. Thats encouraging.
 

GP

Go Texans!
I need to rewatch that; I think perhaps he was gambling on an inside route and was wanting to have an early jump and couldn't recover.
He was just trying to prevent the first down to the inside and he lost the gamble. There was a play later in the game when KJ took inside position on Britt inside the end zone and damn near picked it off. The 2010 KJ would have given that TD up very easily.

Not exactly a brain fart. I mean, no CB shuts out every single WR on every single play for an entire year. Not even for an entire game.

Whereas KJ was giving everything to WRs in 2010, this year it's the exact opposite but with the occasional great play by a QB-WR that any CB in the NFL would be challenged to stop. I wasn't even mad at KJ on that play. I also thought Demps, #27, should have shaded over more to the sideline than he did...he was late to the party, but then again it was just a great QB-WR play, IMO.
 
He was just trying to prevent the first down to the inside and he lost the gamble. There was a play later in the game when KJ took inside position on Britt inside the end zone and damn near picked it off. The 2010 KJ would have given that TD up very easily.

Not exactly a brain fart. I mean, no CB shuts out every single WR on every single play for an entire year. Not even for an entire game.

Whereas KJ was giving everything to WRs in 2010, this year it's the exact opposite. I wasn't even mad at KJ on that play. I also thought Demps, #27, should have shaded over more to the sideline than he did...he was late to the party, but then again it was just a great QB-WR play, IMO.
This in bold. It looked like Demps was late over the top. Big Fing deal. How many time has that play happened this year, bet you can count them on one hand.

good throw, good catch, bad coverage, bad angle = TD for the tits and they still suck...

11-1 headed to Foxboro....
 

GP

Go Texans!
He made some plays. I'm not denying that. Brandon Harris made some plays. Roc Carmichael made some plays. But their "mistakes" makes them a wash.

If Kareem had made an INT on that play where Brit grabbed his helmet.... I'd say that would make up for the "mistakes"

That was perfect coverage by the way & if he could have located that ball.... man.... that would have been sweet.




He jumped a post route today & broke up a sure TD.
Brandon Harris had his hands all over his guy a lot. I loved the tight coverage, but he was just too amped up.

If he gets his legs underneath him, he can be really special because I like what I see out of him. His head isn't quite CORRECTLY telling his hands what to do, though. For me, that's just trying to get adjusted the game speed that's nothing like practice speed. Nothing like preseason game speed. Overall, IMO, Harris did pretty good. Not saying you said he was bad, just saying I thought he looked OK today.
 

TexCanada

All Pro
Do we know the extent of Ball's injury?

"Hot garbage" might be a bit a a hyperbole. Actually, its a total load of BS. We have a very solid secondary that can excel when the front 7 is playing as well as they can. I'm excited to see Harris and Carmichael as they get more comfortable out there.
 

GP

Go Texans!
This in bold. It looked like Demps was late over the top. Big Fing deal. How many time has that play happened this year, bet you can count them on one hand.

good throw, good catch, bad coverage, bad angle = TD for the tits and they still suck...

11-1 headed to Foxboro....
Teams dial those plays up when they're down 21 points. So, yeah, good for the Titans...but in the grand scheme of things, we were playing them everything up front and they slipped by us for a change. I agree with what you said.
 

GP

Go Texans!
Do we know the extent of Ball's injury?

"Hot garbage" might be a bit a a hyperbole. Actually, its a total load of BS. We have a very solid secondary that can excel when the front 7 is playing as well as they can. I'm excited to see Harris and Carmichael as they get more comfortable out there.
Let us not also forget that the refs were missing a lot of calls on BOTH sides today. Hot Garbage should be what we use to describe the refs.

Seemed like every time we held them on 3rd and long, the refs would throw the obligatory Get Out of Jail Free card for the Titans. It really was, at one point, obvious that the refs were trying to keep them in the game...trying to not let this be a blowout. And I'm not even joking.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
This in bold. It looked like Demps was late over the top. Big Fing deal.
He was the only safety back there. Looked like he was cheated to the other side (2 receivers) as if Kj was supposed to keep dude in front of him. If there is any play you don't cheat & jump the route, that's the one.

I don't know if we can blame Demps.... if I'm Van Joseph I'd be telling Kj, "Uh huh.. uh huh, what I tell you? what I tell you? You can't let this happen here, you're on your own.. you owe me a ball, no. You owe me a TD. Go get it!!"
 
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