Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-23-2012   #61
Thorn 
Dirty Old Man
 
Thorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Houston
Section: Restrained in the mental ward
Age: 63
Posts: 21,663
Rep Power: 224197 Thorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: So what have we learned thru 11 games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012Champs View Post
What I've learned is that if needed Schaub can put up fantasy numbers if that's what he is called on to do. That's not our game plan or our type of football anymore but it's on tap if need be. I'd rather foster control the game with some shorter passes to the TE and the occasional bootleg deep, but I like the alternative capability
You know, it used to be Schaub's arm that we relied on for the wins. The passing game was in full swing before Foster became a star. Schaub was always capeable of this.
__________________


"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." --- John Wayne
Thorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012   #62
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,571
Rep Power: 69152 2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: So what have we learned thru 11 games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
You know, it used to be Schaub's arm that we relied on for the wins. The passing game was in full swing before Foster became a star. Schaub was always capeable of this.

I'm aware he did this before but reading what so many post about him here they seem to forget years back when Schaub's numbers were all we had. It's nice to see that years later when this isn't the case that he can go right back to the well when needed
2012Champs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012   #63
HJam72
Hall of Fame
 
HJam72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Over here.
Age: 41
Posts: 11,514
Rep Power: 72200 HJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: So what have we learned thru 11 games?

Well, here's where I'm at:

I don't see anything to gripe about the offense, Schaub, or Kubiak. It's not perfect and neither are they, but they score enough to win every time. Sometimes they are bad at this or that--3rd downs in one game, running in another, sometimes they can't SEEM to score quickly when they SEEM to need to. Whatever. They score with long drives, or they score quickly in the end, they score 34 or 13, but they out score the other team and that's what matters.

On defense, it seems pretty simple to me. They need J. Joseph on the field and they need him healthy. If he has a nagging groin problem, Aaron Rogers lights them up. If he is on the sidelines in street clothes, then Detroit scores 31 on them. They need other guys too and J. Jo. is not even the best player on the D this year--heck, K-Jax is better as a #2 than J. Jo. is right now as a #1--but, I believe J. Jo. is one SERIOUS key to the success of our D. So, drink your Texans Kool-aide and pray to the football Gods for J. Jo's. sustained health, along with Mr. SWatt, because God(s) forbid that man have an inury...
__________________

HJam72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012   #64
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,571
Rep Power: 69152 2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: So what have we learned thru 11 games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HJam72 View Post
Well, here's where I'm at:

I don't see anything to gripe about the offense, Schaub, or Kubiak. It's not perfect and neither are they, but they score enough to win every time. Sometimes they are bad at this or that--3rd downs in one game, running in another, sometimes they can't SEEM to score quickly when they SEEM to need to. Whatever. They score with long drives, or they score quickly in the end, they score 34 or 13, but they out score the other team and that's what matters.

On defense, it seems pretty simple to me. They need J. Joseph on the field and they need him healthy. If he has a nagging groin problem, Aaron Rogers lights them up. If he is on the sidelines in street clothes, then Detroit scores 31 on them. They need other guys too and J. Jo. is not even the best player on the D this year--heck, K-Jax is better as a #2 than J. Jo. is right now as a #1--but, I believe J. Jo. is one SERIOUS key to the success of our D. So, drink your Texans Kool-aide and pray to the football Gods for J. Jo's. sustained health, along with Mr. SWatt, because God(s) forbid that man have an inury...



I agree here. People keep asking whats wrong with our D and I wonder if they look to see how banged up it is.
2012Champs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012   #65
Thorn 
Dirty Old Man
 
Thorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Houston
Section: Restrained in the mental ward
Age: 63
Posts: 21,663
Rep Power: 224197 Thorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: So what have we learned thru 11 games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012Champs View Post
I agree here. People keep asking whats wrong with our D and I wonder if they look to see how banged up it is.
We've got a banged up defense that leaking, and an offense that has to score a bunch of points to win.

Seems like old times. LOL
__________________


"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." --- John Wayne
Thorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012   #66
Texan_Bill 
Subscribed Contributor
 
Texan_Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Houston. Mediocrity Lives Here!!
Section: Bull Pen!!
Age: 47
Posts: 48,153
Rep Power: 108115 Texan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: So what have we learned thru 11 games?

Quote:
Re: So what have we learned thru 11 games?

That JB and Thorn are really, REALLY old???
__________________
We SUCK AGAIN!
Texan_Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012   #67
Thorn 
Dirty Old Man
 
Thorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Houston
Section: Restrained in the mental ward
Age: 63
Posts: 21,663
Rep Power: 224197 Thorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: So what have we learned thru 11 games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
That JB and Thorn are really, REALLY old???
Yeah, well, the shoe will be on the other hand when I start throwing my diapers at you.
__________________


"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." --- John Wayne
Thorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 11-23-2012   #68
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,571
Rep Power: 69152 2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: So what have we learned thru 11 games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
We've got a banged up defense that leaking, and an offense that has to score a bunch of points to win.

Seems like old times. LOL




Two full OT games in a couple days has taken years off my life I think.
2012Champs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012   #69
Thorn 
Dirty Old Man
 
Thorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Houston
Section: Restrained in the mental ward
Age: 63
Posts: 21,663
Rep Power: 224197 Thorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: So what have we learned thru 11 games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012Champs View Post
Two full OT games in a couple days has taken years off my life I think.
Yeah, I know. I said in another thread I'm going to have to double up on my blood pressure medicine on game days if they keep this overtime stuff up.
__________________


"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." --- John Wayne
Thorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012   #70
Texan_Bill 
Subscribed Contributor
 
Texan_Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Houston. Mediocrity Lives Here!!
Section: Bull Pen!!
Age: 47
Posts: 48,153
Rep Power: 108115 Texan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: So what have we learned thru 11 games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
Yeah, well, the shoe will be on the other hand when I start throwing my diapers at you.


Awesome!
__________________
We SUCK AGAIN!
Texan_Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012   #71
ObsiWan
Site Contributor
 
ObsiWan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: League City, Tx
Age: 62
Posts: 13,371
Rep Power: 194681 ObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: So what have we learned thru 11 games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
Yeah, well, the shoe will be on the other hand when I start throwing my diapers at you.
Ewwwwwww!
ObsiWan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012   #72
beerlover
Site Contributor
 
beerlover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 12,358
Rep Power: 52212 beerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: So what have we learned thru 11 games?

  • Texans have arrived - possibly best balanced team in NFL
  • Character is important - Overcoming officiating, bad weather, next man up mentality, on same page with coaches, hostile crowds & beat the odds.
  • Capo-logy - Texans know how much & where to spend valuable cap allocations (let Mario leave, resign Foster & Schaub).
  • Getting respect around the league - Every time Foster touches the ball fans/players of other teams fall in love with him, no wonder he is the #1 fanatasy football player in the NFL.
  • Making a case for JJ Watt - leads the NFL in sacks, swatts, tkl for loss despite being double teamed.
  • Texans free agent aquistions - not one to say I told you so but I told you so Justin Forsett would contribute to this team despite coming in lightly regarded.
  • Special Teams - are improving, Shayne Graham leg strength looks stronger (kicking into endzones) & Donnie Jones has been solid punting while Keshawn looks more comfotable each week returning kicks.
  • Secondary play - Next man up mentality which means there is now quality depth. Kareem has improved, Ball has filled in, McCain is nickle entire games even Harris is seeing action.
  • Schaub is healthy - Moving in pocket better than past, no idea about back-ups (Yates/Keenum) would like to see Texans with comfortable lead to see them get some reps.
  • DL other than Watt - undersized & pushed around yet not breaking. Need a stud in the middle to push back.
  • OL besides Duane Brown/Chris Myers - adequate but lapses @ key moments placing more pressure on QB & RB positions. Newton gets hurt, Texans lack back-up depth, RG revolving chair, LG solid but for how much longer?
  • Andre is not finished - Spring in his step, cuts & extension to ball in traffic, hands best seen since in the league but his counter-parts only serviceable peices.
  • Gary Kubiak - is more confident, assertive & therefore leader, a playoff team needs to overcome what lies ahead.
__________________

2012 Draft was Mercilus
beerlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012   #73
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 42
Posts: 33,856
Rep Power: 216695 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: So what have we learned thru 11 games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
  • Capo-logy - Texans know how much & where to spend valuable cap allocations (let Mario leave, resign Foster & Schaub).
  • Texans free agent aquistions - not one to say I told you so but I told you so Justin Forsett would contribute to this team despite coming in lightly regarded.
Don't forget Eric Winston & Brisiel. Both very questionable & the source of much debate here. We've still got growing pains on the offensive line, but after yesterday, I think we can all agree that Newton is better than Harris & overall I think his pass protection is miles ahead of Winston.

I think they're getting the run thing going & if Newton comes back, we'll dominate by the end of the season.

Justin Forsett, I've been a fan since he saved my fantasy season two years back. I've always thought if he got behind a true Zone Blocking line he'll flourish. He's looked good everytime I've seen him get some carries & as soon as we start dominating on the right side, I think he'll be a pleasant surprise.

I'd still rather have Tate spelling Foster. His punishing style of run is a great change of pace & wears down defenses.
__________________
thunderkyss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012   #74
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
 
The Pencil Neck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Age: 52
Posts: 17,732
Rep Power: 228472 The Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: So what have we learned thru 11 games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
You know, it used to be Schaub's arm that we relied on for the wins. The passing game was in full swing before Foster became a star. Schaub was always capeable of this.
That was one of the things that got me about Simms. He was like "Wow, I didn't know if Schaub could still do this."

WTF?

It was a lisfranc injury. Schaub put up these sorts of numbers for a couple of years. He can still play with the best of them when he has to.

I prefer him not having to.

But if he doesn't, then someone's going to whine about our mediocre QB. Hell, even when he does put up great numbers people are going to whine about our mediocre QB.
__________________
Adoptee: #55 - Chris Myers.
The Pencil Neck is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012   #75
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
 
The Pencil Neck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Age: 52
Posts: 17,732
Rep Power: 228472 The Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: So what have we learned thru 11 games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012Champs View Post
Two full OT games in a couple days has taken years off my life I think.
^^^ This.

I'm going to have to buy a resuscitator and keep it in the TV room. I was afraid I was going to have to call 911 for my wife.
__________________
Adoptee: #55 - Chris Myers.
The Pencil Neck is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012   #76
Ryan
THIS YEAR
 
Ryan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Beaumont,Tx
Section: Section 135, Row F
Posts: 5,168
Rep Power: 14086 Ryan is a quality contributor and well respectedRyan is a quality contributor and well respectedRyan is a quality contributor and well respectedRyan is a quality contributor and well respectedRyan is a quality contributor and well respectedRyan is a quality contributor and well respectedRyan is a quality contributor and well respectedRyan is a quality contributor and well respectedRyan is a quality contributor and well respectedRyan is a quality contributor and well respectedRyan is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to Ryan
Default Re: So what have we learned thru 11 games?

We'd be just an average team in the NFC.
__________________
Wise men know their limits. Great men have no limits.
Ryan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012   #77
76Texan
Hall of Fame
 
76Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,522
Rep Power: 83970 76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: So what have we learned thru 11 games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post


Stop it!! Just stop it Chris!!!
I concur!
76Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012   #78
76Texan
Hall of Fame
 
76Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,522
Rep Power: 83970 76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: So what have we learned thru 11 games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IlliniJen View Post
I have learned that for many on this board, if you aren't 100% perfect, then you're 100% crap and the sky is falling.

I imagine this is the way a lot of fanbases react.
I bet you even if the Texans are perfect, there would still be bitching.
Kubiak needs to be fired or it will never stop. Wait, it will still go on even if Kubiak gets fired
76Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012   #79
76Texan
Hall of Fame
 
76Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,522
Rep Power: 83970 76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: So what have we learned thru 11 games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texanmike02 View Post
That for every new way the Texans find to win the Texans fans will find a new way to *****.

Mike
Wrong, they will find at least a thousand things to ***** about
76Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012   #80
76Texan
Hall of Fame
 
76Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,522
Rep Power: 83970 76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: So what have we learned thru 11 games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Showtime100 View Post
You exasperated me today man. You always like this?? I never really noticed before



I'm positive. I'm glad I ......nevermind. Our school system sucks.
LOLlolLoL
76Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger