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Old 11-23-2012   #81
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Default Re: The play

We learned there is worse than Kubiak and the breaks sometimes even out . Despite what everyone says no one can say we don't score despite the stupid move by the Detroit coach .
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Old 11-23-2012   #82
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Default Re: The play

You want to penalize Detroit for unsportmanlike for throwing the flag, I have no problem with that, but you've got to get the call right. That's the most important thing here. It should have been Forsett down at the 26, add 15 yards for the penalty for throwing the flag, 1st and 10 Houston at the 41. Maybe the Texans go on to score anyway, but the system is in place to get the calls right and you can't have some stupid loophole BS take that away. Stupid rule.

I guarantee that gets changed next season.
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Old 11-23-2012   #83
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Default Re: The play

Lets say the penalty is just 15 yards and doesn't preclude a review. That would have still given the Texans a 23 yard gain. Who is to say the Texans wouldn't score a TD on that drive? This game wasn't decided on one bad call and a worse coaching mistake.
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Old 11-23-2012   #84
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Default Re: The play

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Dude's avatar on the Lions' board:


Priceless!!
That's the same pic we made the Lions subreddit put as the sidebar for losing the bet lol.
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Old 11-23-2012   #85
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Default Re: The play

Nevermind. Already posted.
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Old 11-23-2012   #86
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Default Re: The play

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I guess I feel sorry for the fans but damn that is one dirty team. I can't believe even with the Forsett play the fans are complaining about the refs. There were so many flags which should have been thrown against the Lions today.

It was just crappy and constant. There was one play JJ beat 66, knocked down Stafford and then was walking away. 66 comes up behind JJ and punches him (stupid hitting someone in the shoulder pads). Didn't hurt JJ but flagrant and indicative of the way they were playing all day. Suh got away with knocking down Schaub long, long after the ball was gone all day long in addition to his other offenses.
I am shocked no one has even commented on this. 66 had several plays where he dragged a defender down. The O-line and D-line hit play after play after the whistle and there was no call.
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Old 11-23-2012   #87
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Post Re: The play

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Originally Posted by SrslySirius View Post
I was pissed off when I saw this. He's mad at the call, but he has no problem with his team playing dirty. Typical goon coach.
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Old 11-23-2012   #88
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Ahhh horse****. I'm tired of people talking about this bad play and bad penalty. It is what it is. There was plenty of time for both teams to make plays. We benefitted.

Let's get rid of the gay ass tuck rule. Now THAT'S a rule and play that was conveniently dug up and screwed one team.
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Old 11-23-2012   #89
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Post Re: The play

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Screw them!!

We were all taught as little kids to play until you hear the whistle - Shame on the Lions Players.

Coaches need to be held accountable for knowing the rules. Shame on Jim Schwartz.

Have you noticed that Kubiak calls a ref. over to discuss the options before throwing a challenge flag?? That's why!
Agreed. Play until the whistle. Didn't Jason Witten catch a ball, then just toss it away a few years back? Nobody even picked up the ball
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Old 11-24-2012   #90
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Default Re: The play

Even if they got the call right, wouldn't we still have been at 3rd and 5. No way to know now what could have been. Lions coach blew the call. The Texans still had to win the game.
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Old 11-24-2012   #91
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Default Re: The play

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Originally Posted by heymak View Post
Even if they got the call right, wouldn't we still have been at 3rd and 5. No way to know now what could have been. Lions coach blew the call. The Texans still had to win the game.
Would have been about 3rd and 2. There is no way to say we would have been stopped there. We marched it 97 yards later.
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Old 11-24-2012   #92
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Default Re: The play

I was wondering, does anyone know what happens if Kubiak throws the flag instead? Would this also make the play not reviewable? If so why aren't coaches abusing this rule until it gets changed...
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Old 11-24-2012   #93
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Default Re: The play

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Originally Posted by ajohnson80 View Post
I was wondering, does anyone know what happens if Kubiak throws the flag instead? Would this also make the play not reviewable? If so why aren't coaches abusing this rule until it gets changed...
The rule is written to avoid that. It says the team which throws the flag illegally cannot benefit from a review. In this example since a review could do nothing other than benefit Detroit there was no review. If Kubiak threw it they could still review because it could benefit Detroit.
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Old 11-24-2012   #94
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Default Re: The play

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
The rule is written to avoid that. It says the team which throws the flag illegally cannot benefit from a review. In this example since a review could do nothing other than benefit Detroit there was no review. If Kubiak threw it they could still review because it could benefit Detroit.
Ok, thanks for that. The rule was new to me as well as coach schwartz apparently lol
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Old 11-24-2012   #95
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Default Re: The play

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajohnson80 View Post
I was wondering, does anyone know what happens if Kubiak throws the flag instead? Would this also make the play not reviewable? If so why aren't coaches abusing this rule until it gets changed...
If Forsett is ruled down by contact, even if he wasn't down on the field, the play is dead. The most Forsett could have gotten if the whistle was blown was the 3rd & 2 scenario. There would have been no purpose for a challenge for Kubiak even if it was a legitimate TD run. That's the reason I believe the referees should be commended for not blowing the whistle.
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Old 11-24-2012   #96
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Default Re: The play

I think you missed my point there. I was talking about exploiting the rule that all scoring plays are reviewed. If Kubiak throws the flag and gets a penalty thus making the play not reviewable, it is certainly worth a 15 yard penalty for them not to review a play that would be overturned and take points off the board.
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Old 11-24-2012   #97
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Default Re: The play

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Originally Posted by ajohnson80 View Post
Ok, thanks for that. The rule was new to me as well as coach schwartz apparently lol
It wasn't new to Schwartz. Last year he yelled "know the rules" when Harbough got hit for the same thing. He admitted he knew the rule after the game.
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Old 11-24-2012   #98
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Default Re: The play

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Originally Posted by NCTexan View Post
Why does the rule exist in the first place? I've been trying to think of a reason and can't.


Also good job by Forsett playing to the whistle!
Talk about a lot of rules, Zebra, and Schwartz and yes it is stupid rule mistake by both sides but, I am glad someone is mentioning football awareness of Forsett!
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Old 11-24-2012   #99
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Default Re: The play

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
I dont think this rule existed last year. I can't swear to that, but.....
If you remember the famous "handshake" game from last Thanksgiving with the Lions/49ers. Harbaugh got penalized for the same thing. Schwartz told Harbaugh to know the *******kn rules. I'd say karma did it's job (which is probably why you see the idiot immediately saying "it's on me" on the sideline because he knew the rule).
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Old 11-24-2012   #100
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Default Re: The play

Ben Austro is considered an expert in analyzing NFL officiating. He is the editor of Football Zebras.com, a site that, in addition to posting weekly referee assignments, does excellent weekly reviews and interpretations of confusing or controversial calls. This piece essentially answers all of our questions succinctly yet in detail.

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Revoked replay review result of repeated rulebook revisions
Posted on November 23, 2012 by Ben Austro
Week 12: Texans at Lions (video)

It’s said that the penalty should fit the crime, but because of a continuously revised rulebook, a pair of rules that once made sense had combined into a seemingly harsh penalty.

The rule is simple, and Lions coach Jim Schwartz realized it when it was explained to him: if the play cannot be challenged because it is under the exclusive jurisdiction of the replay official, it’s an unsportsmanlike conduct foul. If the replay official has not committed to a review, the challenge flag then freezes the replay official’s ability to review the play for that team’s benefit. (This does not prevent the replay official from reviewing a play in the other team’s benefit.)

As it happened in the third quarter, a touchdown run where Texans running back Justin Forsett was clearly down, clearly could not be overturned because Schwartz threw the challenge flag immediately, well before the replay official could even consider initiating the review. (The same happened to Falcons coach Mike Smith just four days earlier on a turnover challenge.)

But why such a harsh penalty? There are two separate revisions to the rulebook that have come crashing together to cause Schwartz to be denied a certain reversal.

Prior to all touchdowns and all turnover plays being reviewable only on the replay official’s discretion, a coach was able to challenge just about any play, as long as it wasn’t after the two-minute warning. (Also, challenges have never been permitted if a coach had used his available challenges or did not have a timeout remaining.) However, coaches were using the red flag to stop play to argue over calls. To avoid this misuse of the challenge system, it became a 15-yard penalty in 2005 to challenge when prohibited to do so. And at that time it was simple: put the red flag away at the two minute warning, after the second challenge, or after the final timeout was taken.

Also, a loophole in the rules allowed a team took an intentional foul to buy extra time for a replay challenge — either for their own coach or the replay official. Mike Pereira, who was then the vice president of officiating, said in 2009 it would be legal to do so. Any penalty which prevented the snap from happening kept the previous play available for review, including intentional encroachment penalties to stop a hurry-up offense or delay of game penalties by the offense. The Competition Committee closed that loophole by declaring a team may not benefit from a challenge when a team has committed a foul to delay the next snap.

As the rule was written, the intent was to include any between-downs foul that afforded a team extra time to consider a challenge (or the replay official for that matter). And, so, the 15-yarder that was instituted in 2005 for an illegal challenge was lumped into this category.

By adding turnover plays and touchdowns to the mix of the replay official’s domain, now individual plays became unchallengeable. Instead of following the proviso that a coach loses his challenges at a fixed time in the game — the two-minute warning, the second challenge, the third timeout — the challenge window opens and shuts depending on the result of the play. It is like remembering i before e except after c in grade school, and then you misspell neighbor and weigh on the next test.

As long as coaches can keep that red flag under control for the remainder of the season and the postseason, they won’t have to worry about this rule next year. It is sure to be on the top of the Competition Committee agenda in March.
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