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Old 11-22-2012   #41
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Default Re: The play

Feel bad for all the Detroit fans. I know the feeling very well.
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Old 11-22-2012   #42
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Default Re: The play

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Originally Posted by TexansFanatic View Post
OK, so I'm still confused then. Was Detroit penalized because they were out of timeouts or simply because it was an inappropriate time to throw the red flag?
The latter. All scoring plays and turnovers are reviewed automatically. This rule was put into place to keep coaches from "manipulating the clock" according to one of the talking heads. Somehow by throwing a challenge flag, a coach can slow down the game and get what amounts to a timeout.

Doesn't make sense to me, but I'm just a fan. I'd like to hear the Mike Pereria (sp?) explanation. He's pretty good at breaking these things down for us common fans.
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Old 11-22-2012   #43
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Default Re: The play

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
I dont think this rule existed last year. I can't swear to that, but.....

Just looked it up. Kubiak was penalized last season at Tampa for this. The penalty was new last year.
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Old 11-22-2012   #44
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Default Re: The play

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
The latter. All scoring plays and turnovers are reviewed automatically. This rule was put into place to keep coaches from "manipulating the clock" according to one of the talking heads. Somehow by throwing a challenge flag, a coach can slow down the game and get what amounts to a timeout.

Doesn't make sense to me, but I'm just a fan. I'd like to hear the Mike Pereria (sp?) explanation. He's pretty good at breaking these things down for us common fans.
If that's true (and that was my understanding of it as well) then the punishment doesn't fit the crime. If a coach is trying to unfairly manipulate the clock, his team should be assessed a penalty. But ruling a non-touchdown a touchdown is excessive --- and that's an understatement.
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Old 11-22-2012   #45
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Default Re: The play

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Originally Posted by TexansFanatic View Post
Interesting. I never really thought of this before, but does that mean you can throw the red flag if you're out of timeouts? I would think you'd have to have at least one timeout left in order to be able to use the red flag....
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Yep, you can't throw the red flag if you're out of timeouts.
Here's where I don't know either. You can't throw a red fleg without a timeout remaining IN THEORY,, but I think if you do you will be penalized, but you can if you have one less time out than you will need in order to stop the clock and get the ball back (for example).

Great discussion here.

I'll bet this rule will be scrutinized so much this coming week we'll all have an answer in the comig days (especially since the Texans benefitted..lol).
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Old 11-22-2012   #46
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Default Re: The play

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Originally Posted by TexanBacker93 View Post
Just looked it up. Kubiak was penalized last season at Tampa for this. The penalty was new last year.
Gotcha!
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Old 11-22-2012   #47
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Default Re: The play

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Originally Posted by TexansFanatic View Post
If that's true (and that was my understanding of it as well) then the punishment doesn't fit the crime. If a coach is trying to unfairly manipulate the clock, his team should be assessed a penalty. But ruling a non-touchdown a touchdown is excessive --- and that's an understatement.
In most situations it wouldn't be excessive because outside of scoring plays (which ever fool knows are reviewed automatically in the NFL now) it would be a 15 yard penalty. It was just the situation today that made it excessive. Today's example of this penalty was like a "perfect storm" situation. Worst case scenario and Schwartz stepped into it with both feet
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Old 11-22-2012   #48
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Default Re: The play

If the officials are automatically reviewing the TD, by rule, how is throwing a red flag "delaying the next snap"?

If the officials are automatically reviewing the TD, by rule, why doesn't the official simply give back the red flag and say, "we're already reviewing it."

I know we benefited from this horrible rule, and I'm glad we won, but it still an egregiously horrible rule. A fifteen yard penalty? . . , fine! . . .

. . . but you DO NOT remove or hinder the ability to correct a blown call.

The NFL is going to catch holy HELL over this, and rightly so.
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Old 11-22-2012   #49
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Default Re: The play

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Originally Posted by gwallaia View Post
Feel bad for all the Detroit fans. I know the feeling very well.
I guess I feel sorry for the fans but damn that is one dirty team. I can't believe even with the Forsett play the fans are complaining about the refs. There were so many flags which should have been thrown against the Lions today.

It was just crappy and constant. There was one play JJ beat 66, knocked down Stafford and then was walking away. 66 comes up behind JJ and punches him (stupid hitting someone in the shoulder pads). Didn't hurt JJ but flagrant and indicative of the way they were playing all day. Suh got away with knocking down Schaub long, long after the ball was gone all day long in addition to his other offenses.
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Old 11-22-2012   #50
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Default Re: The play

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
In most situations it wouldn't be excessive because outside of scoring plays (which ever fool knows are reviewed automatically in the NFL now) it would be a 15 yard penalty. It was just the situation today that made it excessive. Today's example of this penalty was like a "perfect storm" situation. Worst case scenario and Schwartz stepped into it with both feet
I just feel like Detroit should have paid with a 15 yard penalty --- like a technical foul --- but they shouldn't have been deprived of the replay.

Don't get me wrong --- Detroit had a number of chances to put the game away and then missed a chance to win it outright, so I'm not going to lose any sleep over the blown call. I simply believe the rule/penalty is ill-conceived.
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Old 11-22-2012   #51
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Default Re: The play

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Awesome
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Old 11-22-2012   #52
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Default Re: The play

schwartz costing his team the game & playoffs was even tastier than the beautiful dinner i ate today. he is a cocky, know-it-all moron whose teams follow in his hot headed, undisciplined steps
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Old 11-22-2012   #53
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Default Re: The play

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Originally Posted by TexansFanatic View Post
I just feel like Detroit should have paid with a 15 yard penalty --- like a technical foul --- but they shouldn't have been deprived of the replay.

Don't get me wrong --- Detroit had a number of chances to put the game away and then missed a chance to win it outright, so I'm not going to lose any sleep over the blown call. I simply believe the rule/penalty is ill-conceived.
I really agree with this assessment, not just the bolded. I would have been furious...lol.
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Old 11-22-2012   #54
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Default Re: The play

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
In most situations it wouldn't be excessive because outside of scoring plays (which ever fool knows are reviewed automatically in the NFL now) it would be a 15 yard penalty. It was just the situation today that made it excessive. Today's example of this penalty was like a "perfect storm" situation. Worst case scenario and Schwartz stepped into it with both feet
Turnovers and Touchdowns are automatically reviewed. This same situation happened four days ago except that it was a turnover. See the Atlanta game.
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Old 11-22-2012   #55
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Default Re: The play

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Turnovers and Touchdowns are automatically reviewed. This same situation happened four days ago except that it was a turnover. See the Atlanta game.
And it happened last year to Schwartz' benefit against Oakland. He knew the rule. He admitted it after the game. His hot head cost him.
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Old 11-22-2012   #56
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Default Re: The play

Texans received a gift from the ref's for sure. There is not a team in the league that would not have taken that touchdown though. That is why the guys on the field are supposed to play through the whistle I presume. If Schwartz doesn't throw his flag that play gets reviewed and it's not a TD.
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Old 11-22-2012   #57
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Default Re: The play

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Originally Posted by ESAD2-14 View Post
Texans received a gift from the ref's for sure. There is not a team in the league that would not have taken that touchdown though. That is why the guys on the field are supposed to play through the whistle I presume. If Schwartz doesn't throw his flag that play gets reviewed and it's not a TD.
I hate to point this out, but you contradicted yourself, correctly I might add.

The Texans received a gift from the refs, you said. Then you said it when you finished with "if Schwartz doesn't throw his flag that play gets reviewed and it's not a TD."

The play was called according to the rules.

I know, it sure is a twister in a court of law....I mean fans.
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Old 11-22-2012   #58
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Default Re: The play

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Originally Posted by Showtime100 View Post
I hate to point this out, but you contradicted yourself, correctly I might add.

The Texans received a gift from the refs, you said. Then you said it when you finished with "if Schwartz doesn't throw his flag that play gets reviewed and it's not a TD."

The play was called according to the rules.

I know, it sure is a twister in a court of law....I mean fans.
In all actuality the Texans received two gifts. One from the ref's than another from Schwartz. I am not complaining at all, had it happened to us and the Lions were on the receiving end of that call, their fans and team would have accepted just as much as us. Them's the breaks, and for to long the Texans have been on the other side of calls like that. I'll take it and let the other teams fans groan about it for weeks on end instead of us this time around.
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Old 11-22-2012   #59
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Default Re: The play

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
And it happened last year to Schwartz' benefit against Oakland. He knew the rule. He admitted it after the game. His hot head cost him.
Man.. I didn't realize that. What a dumbass!!
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Old 11-22-2012   #60
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Default Re: The play

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Originally Posted by ESAD2-14 View Post
In all actuality the Texans received two gifts. One from the ref's than another from Schwartz. I am not complaining at all, had it happened to us and the Lions were on the receiving end of that call, their fans and team would have accepted just as much as us. Them's the breaks, and for to long the Texans have been on the other side of calls like that. I'll take it and let the other teams fans groan about it for weeks on end instead of us this time around.
I'm not complaining either because in the first 8 seasons, we've rarely recieved many gifts.

We played as though we believed "giving was better than receiving".
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