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Hit on Cutler...

BlueSteel

BlueSteel

Waterboy
I have been floating around enjoying some of the news articles after the win and I was shocked to see a number of articles about Cutler being knocked out. It seems the fans in Chicago view the hit as "dirty" and "intended to knock Cutler out of the game."

When I watched the play unfold, the first thing I thought when he got hit was, "Why did he throw the ball he was way past the line of scrimmage" and Cutler just stopped running to throw the pass when the DBs came up for the hit.

When Dobbins hit him I thought, "Why the hell did he not slide after attempting to run the ball." Thinking that as soon as he passed the line of scrimmage he became a "runner."

So the question that I am stuck with and was confused about when there were to flags thrown was this... How can Cutler be flagged for throwing an illegal forward pass when he crosses the line of scrimage and yet still be protected as a QB when he ran the ball across the line of scrimmage?

All examples of running QBs crossing the line of scrimmage I can think of did not result in helmet to helmet calls unless the QB was sliding. RBs are not given helmet to helmet protection when they run the ball and I would have assumed it would pass over to Cutler in this instance.

All fans crying about this being some sort of headhunting bounty on the Texans parts need to go look at the two hits Scaub took against the Broncos. Then they can cry because they will realize our QB wouldn't be caught dead leavng the field after a tough hit and Cutler wouldn't return to the field for a play that was nowhere near as violent.
 
i would think after a QB runs past the LOS which isnt it like 12 yards hell would be consider a runner and he didnt even slide and when u hit a RB and heck sometimes even a WR and TE past the LOS getting hit high nothing gets called

its getting sicking D players might has well think u cant hit a QB high never no matter what even if u hit him in the chest vicous that would prob get called 2


THey might has well put flags on these QB's and get it over with LOL if u pull the flag off the play ends
 
That was not even a hit as much as an, "Oh, excuse me, but I have to stop you from going any further." Granted, he did make helmet to face-mask contact, but our guy didn't exactly push off and explode into a hit.
 
Norg said:
i would think after a QB runs past the LOS which isnt it like 12 yards hell would be consider a runner and he didnt even slide and when u hit a RB and heck sometimes even a WR and TE past the LOS getting hit high nothing gets called

its getting sicking D players might has well think u cant hit a QB high never no matter what even if u hit him in the chest vicous that would prob get called 2


THey might has well put flags on these QB's and get it over with LOL if u pull the flag off the play ends
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No, because they'd a call a foul on you for tearing part of the QB's "uniform" off. :polevault:
 
HJam72 said:
That was not even a hit as much as an, "Oh, excuse me, but I have to stop you from going any further." Granted, he did make helmet to face-mask contact, but our guy didn't exactly push off and explode into a hit.
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Contact to the head was made .... obviously. I didnt think it was that significant until I realized he wasnt on the field in the second half .... then had to rewatch the hit a few times. Still didnt seem all that hard but .... Im not the one who got hit.


I know Fiddler disputed that in a thread in the Texans section saying that only applies to a defenseless player or a QB (in the pocket) but the way it was called was contact to the head - nothing said about defenseless player or "QB."

They either blew the call or the rule is different FIIK?

I'll have to look up the rule tomorrow to clarify one way or the other .... its 3am now.
 
Showtime100 said:
Honestly, I have little sympathy providing Cutler is ok. Four names, two people. Albert Haynesworth, Jared Allen.
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I still think that random Charger's player that exploded Schaub's jaw after he threw an interception was probably the worst it I have seen Schaub take so far. If my memory serves me, I think that was the season Diva Rob went down too which made it all the more annoying.

Watching Haynesworth fall on Schaub over and over and over did get annoying though. :wild:
 
Corrosion said:
I know Fiddler disputed that in a thread in the Texans section saying that only applies to a defenseless player or a QB (in the pocket) but the way it was called was contact to the head - nothing said about defenseless player or "QB."
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Blah, I searched for discussions and couldn't find any in either section.
 
HJam72 said:
That was not even a hit as much as an, "Oh, excuse me, but I have to stop you from going any further." Granted, he did make helmet to face-mask contact, but our guy didn't exactly push off and explode into a hit.
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I think the words you are looking for is "launch himself into" which is why they got Dunta on that DeSean Jackson hit. Which is true, he didn't launch himself into Cutler. He didn't use the crown of his helmet as a weapon, & he didn't hit him as he tried to slide.

On the radio they said Kubiak was extremely upset, I'm sure he's going to ask "the league" about it today. That should have been a loss of down & a penalty in our favor..... didn't end up hurting us any though.

I was just glad they wiped out that big play by Hester.
 
If you watch the hit in slo-mo, he really lit up Cutler. His helmet catches Cutler's pretty good and you see Cutler's head get turned. It's like catching someone good on the side of the jaw - lights out. As for the question about him being a runner, all you really need to know is Cutler is a QB. The NFL makes up its own rules when it comes to QBs and everyone knows you can't hit a QB like that and get away with it. Dobbins was penalized and will get fined. If it were Schaub, there would be a similar percentage of Houston fans crying foul. It's just the way of the world.
 
Dobbins hit cutler standing straight up and down and his helmet when he hit Cutler was off to the side. The sudden stop, whip lash, and the ground caused Cutlers head injury. Cutler was a runner and was treated as such.

Clean hit.
 
Come on. It was purely an illegal hit. Cutler is a dbag but it was illegal. He was still a QB...and I think also still behind the line..looking to throw. He hit him right in the head while running at him to tackle him. Under NFL rules now its easily an illegal hit.

Watch it again...it wasn't some incidental contact. I wouldn't call launching but he smacked him and left his feet.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000093552/Cutler-injured-on-illegal-hit
 
I don't know about intent to injure but that was helmet to helmet. Not quite dirty but definitely illegal. He better have his checkbook ready today. Hopefully the league won't tack a suspension on too.


EDIT: Watching the replay a few more times here, I gotta say, it looks worse every time. That was pretty dirty. He's definitely taking a shot at Cutler. The guilty hands afterward don't help. Also, you don't have to aim hip high to not take a shot at his extremely upper torso. There's a whole middle section in there that would've been a clean hit and still probably knocked Cutler's pansy ass out.

That's two down. Locker and Cutler. Who's next? My bet is Stafford.
 
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i have no problem with the hit. dobbins didnt lower his head to use the helmet as a weapon, didnt launch, and didnt drive cutler to the ground. if a quarterback breaks the pocket and starts running, he's a runner and should be hit accordingly. past the line of scrimmage, he literally is a runner, and dobbins should've blown him up instead of putting a good smack and then stopping.

a little high, i understand the flag, but i disagree with it - both as a technicality (past the line of scrimmage) and fundamentally (good eyes up hit).
 
Corrosion said:
I know Fiddler disputed that in a thread in the Texans section saying that only applies to a defenseless player or a QB (in the pocket) but the way it was called was contact to the head - nothing said about defenseless player or "QB."

They either blew the call or the rule is different FIIK?
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Incorrect. When calling the penalty the ref clearly said "...hit to the QUARTERBACK ..."

So the officials blew the call. You can't call forward pass beyond the line of scrimmage AND hit to the QB because he was a RB. If Matt Forte is beyond the line of scrimmage and throws a pass does he get the same call? If not, bad call. If yes, then the ref should not have said "QB".
 
I don't think the hit was intentional but it was illegal. IMO, the ref made the right call.
 
Cry me a river.

Cutler had 3 rushes for 37 yards including a 19 yarder. He should have slid if he didn't want to get hit.

The fact that he threw the ball beyond the LOS is irrelevant.
 
What Stan said.

Lots of Qbs went out with concussions this week. Hurts the new league concussion free image. Expect over reaction fines/suspensions all around.
 
When I saw the play real time, I thought the hit was hard, but legal. On the replay, in slow mo, I thought it was slightly late and to the head. But in either, I don't feel Dobbins launched himself nor did I get the sense that he was playing dirty, but it was a helmet to helmet hit and that flag wasn't getting picked up. It happens. If I'm a bears fan, I would consider it a cheap shot. That was a hard hitting game. Those players were playing loose. I can't imagine how difficult it is to pull off, which upon replay again, it almost appears like Dobbins was applying a hit and trying to pull off at the moment the hit was applied. Hard to stop a moving train. I'm sure the people who have issue with Jay getting plowed were applauding him when Chris C was talking about him being a "Bears QB" because he's diving head first, etc...

You get a QB who's doing that, someone will put a hat on him.

To the Letter, I feel you can't flag Dobbins for hitting above the QB's shoulders, as they stated, if you also confirm the QB was beyond the LOS. Especially with Cutler showing his willingness to play "tough".
 
Señor Stan;2056146 said:
Cry me a river.

Cutler had 3 rushes for 37 yards including a 19 yarder. He should have slid if he didn't want to get hit.

The fact that he threw the ball beyond the LOS is irrelevant.
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No offense Stan but that makes no sense. It is relevant. If he is in the pocket and behind the line..even if he is running forward..he is still a passer. He was looking to throw. I didn't think he crossed the line. They threw the flag on the fact that Dobbins went high. they do the same thing when WRs go across the middle and get hit in the helmet. If this was Schaub people would be up in arms.
 
Got to say I think theres a little bit of homerism going on here. On the slo-mo you clearly see Dobbins is caught a little flat-footed when Cutler throws the ball, clearly expecting him to continue running.

Watch as Dobbins stops, adjusts, and then accelerates into Cutler with as much force as he can.

It was a dirty hit that deserves a fine, if he gets off on some technicality then all power to him, but it was a cheap shot in a game where we knew we had to rattle Cutler and we weren't getting too many opportunities to lay him out in the pocket.

If anyone did that to Schaub the feeling on this board would be very different.
 
Dobbins shouldn't get fined, because when he crossed the LOS he should be considered a RB. He will get fined for launching which is BS, because Cutler wasn't defenseless like Jackson was on the Robinson hit.

The main reason God'ell will fine Dobbins is that the hit was on a QB. The owners gotta protect their investment you know. God'ell is ruining NFL football that I grew up with.

Dobbins had the opportunity to put a shot on Cutler and he took the shot. This used to not even be a question of a penalty on a hit like this before God'ell became commish. The hit probably wouldn't have been called by the replacement refs. But that's another subject.
 
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BlueSteel said:
I have been floating around enjoying some of the news articles after the win and I was shocked to see a number of articles about Cutler being knocked out. It seems the fans in Chicago view the hit as "dirty" and "intended to knock Cutler out of the game."

When I watched the play unfold, the first thing I thought when he got hit was, "Why did he throw the ball he was way past the line of scrimmage" and Cutler just stopped running to throw the pass when the DBs came up for the hit.

When Dobbins hit him I thought, "Why the hell did he not slide after attempting to run the ball." Thinking that as soon as he passed the line of scrimmage he became a "runner."

So the question that I am stuck with and was confused about when there were to flags thrown was this... How can Cutler be flagged for throwing an illegal forward pass when he crosses the line of scrimage and yet still be protected as a QB when he ran the ball across the line of scrimmage?

All examples of running QBs crossing the line of scrimmage I can think of did not result in helmet to helmet calls unless the QB was sliding. RBs are not given helmet to helmet protection when they run the ball and I would have assumed it would pass over to Cutler in this instance.

All fans crying about this being some sort of headhunting bounty on the Texans parts need to go look at the two hits Scaub took against the Broncos. Then they can cry because they will realize our QB wouldn't be caught dead leavng the field after a tough hit and Cutler wouldn't return to the field for a play that was nowhere near as violent.
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Ok, well it was an illegal hit (helmet to helmet) and it was flagged as it should have been. After the Broncos hits on Schaub earlier in the year the last thing I want to do is look like I'm ok with it if my guy does it so I'm not making excuses. It was an illegal hit and Dobbins was penalized.

Having said that I don't believe that Dobbins intended to hit Cutler high like that. They were closing on one another fast and my impression after the hit happened was that Dobbins was a little surprised that Cutler was still standing upright when he got to him. Watch the hit again and you see how awkward Dobbins position is when he wraps up Cutler and their heads collide. I believe that Dobbins thought Cutler would go down, slide or something (throw the ball?) prior to the hit and he was waiting for that to happen all the way into the collision. Cutler on the other hand was trying to stretch that play out and make something happen. He was going to throw the ball at the last possible second and before either of them (Cutler or Dobbins) was exactly where they wanted to be "BAM!" they hit.

Dobbins gets fined for it he should shut up and pay the bill but I didn't see malice in the tackle.
 
Cutler was beyond the los (that's why he was flagged for the pass) and definitely not in any kind of sliding posture (feet first or head first). So under those circumstances, is he not treated as just your ordinary,
garden-variety running back instead of a QB ?
 
Two guys running straight into one another is not dirty.

One guy hoisting a guy into the air, then pile driving the guy into the turf with helmet in the chest. THAT is dirty.

A guy lowering his head and hitting a QB in the jaw/earhole as the QB is throwing the ball? THAT is dirty.

IMO, Dobbins clearly hit the QB in the head...but he wasn't trying to hurt him. Pollard had a bit of a helmet-to-helmet ding on OD or some other receiver for us in the Ravens game a few weeks ago, and I wasn't crying about how Pollard was being dirty--Because he wasn't. Yeah, hit our guy in the helmet...but it wasn't a dirty hit.

What Miller and Mabin (Broncos) did, IMO, was a dirty combination of hits on Schaub. Dobbins and Pollard, IMO, are examples of bad hits that aren't dirty.
 
eriadoc said:
If you watch the hit in slo-mo, he really lit up Cutler. His helmet catches Cutler's pretty good and you see Cutler's head get turned. It's like catching someone good on the side of the jaw - lights out. As for the question about him being a runner, all you really need to know is Cutler is a QB. The NFL makes up its own rules when it comes to QBs and everyone knows you can't hit a QB like that and get away with it. Dobbins was penalized and will get fined. If it were Schaub, there would be a similar percentage of Houston fans crying foul. It's just the way of the world.
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QFT. Any discussion about hitting a QB at any point has to take into account the modern NFL. Comparisons to any other position is irrelevant. QBs are special positions in today's league, and as such, granted special privileges and protections.

Like it or not, just accept it as reality.
 
Dobbits said outright he tried to hit Cutler up high because he was in the process of throwing and thought it would make him mess up. This proves a few things:

1. Dobbins hit Cutler as a passer, not a runner. Cutler's arm was cocked, too. Dobbins knew he was passing.

2. Dobbins purposefully hit him up high even though he could have hit him hip high instead. He even said he chose not to hit him hip high on purpose


Dobbins makes pretty clear contact with Cutler's head. Dirty or not makes no difference. I twas a pretty vicious hit, was definitely illegal, and Dobbins deserves both a penalty and a fine. I fthat had been Schaub, I'd call it dirty. Im as big of a homer as they come, but defending an obviously illegal hit after we've dealt with the same on other's boards is not something I'm going to do
 
cutlerhit_medium.gif
 
The hit really doesn't look that bad to me, I would be surprised if he gets more than a 15k fine. He had his head up because he needed to try to block the pass, but he went for the hit after the throw anyways. Late hit on a passer, sure, but it wasn't all that vicious.
 
Fred said:
Incorrect. When calling the penalty the ref clearly said "...hit to the QUARTERBACK ..."

So the officials blew the call. You can't call forward pass beyond the line of scrimmage AND hit to the QB because he was a RB. If Matt Forte is beyond the line of scrimmage and throws a pass does he get the same call? If not, bad call. If yes, then the ref should not have said "QB".
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I agree with this. RB's don't enjoy the same protections that WR's get when it comes to helmet to helmet contact. Mainly because they lead with their helmet simply because of how they run.

Cutler became a RB the minute he "crossed" (Or when the Refs thought he crossed if you believe he didn't) the LOS. He therefore loses the protections of being a QB.

In all honesty the rule should probably be ammended because a QB doesn't run the ball the way a RB does. There should be some kind of defenseless QB rule when running. The QB is vunarable until he is way past the LOS.

I was screaming at the TV, although glad for the illegal forward pass, but pissed, because that was kind of having it both ways. I always wonder if the coaches yell some of the same things fans do when there are those strange calls.
 
Agree with the call or not, the same officiating crew that called the illegal hit also called (and later confirmed) that Cutler was across the line of scrimmage, so clearly that fact was not lost on them.

At this point, I think it's a given that there's a fine involved. That's too bad for Dobbins, and hopefully (for his sake) it's not too big, but my my only real concern is whether or not there's a suspension involved. If there is, it's a potential problem as that means that we've only got 2 "ILB's" on the roster (and yes, I know that Nading has played some ILB, and may have to again).

Again, you can vehemently disagree with the concept (and you may be correct), but when a flag is thrown on a hit that knocks out a team's starting QB, I'm going to worry about a suspension - right up until the time the league announces what they're going to do.
 
I don't know what the official rule on this is. Lance Zierlein tweeted about it during the game and said this

https://twitter.com/LanceZierlein/status/267822007595442176
Illegal hit on Cutler didn't matter that he was beyond line of scrimmage. A QB was hit above shoulders which is why the penalty was thrown
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Along with a few other tweets to people questioning it.

@tankswt Nope. He wasn't a runner. He was defenseless QB. He threw the ball, he was just past the line.
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@dabearmc He didn't run the blal. He threw it. He wasn't a "runner" on that play. He was defenseless
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So does the rule state that he's still a passer, and thus still defenseless, even though he was across the line? If so, then it was the right call.
 
If you're a QB and decided to leave the safety of the pocket and decide to venture down field you're basically crossing the rope line and harassing the big dog across the street. When you do that you can't ***** that he bit you.
 
TexanSam said:
So does the rule state that he's still a passer, and thus still defenseless, even though he was across the line? If so, then it was the right call.
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It really doesn't matter if he is considered a QB or a RB. Rule 12, Section 2, Article 7(a) defines defenseless player and states "(1) A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass." So the player's position doesn't matter. LT threw a bunch of TD passes. If he had been nailed high while passing he would have been a defenseless player.
 
gtexan02 said:
Dobbits said outright he tried to hit Cutler up high because he was in the process of throwing and thought it would make him mess up. This proves a few things:

1. Dobbins hit Cutler as a passer, not a runner. Cutler's arm was cocked, too. Dobbins knew he was passing.

2. Dobbins purposefully hit him up high even though he could have hit him hip high instead. He even said he chose not to hit him hip high on purpose


Dobbins makes pretty clear contact with Cutler's head. Dirty or not makes no difference. I twas a pretty vicious hit, was definitely illegal, and Dobbins deserves both a penalty and a fine. I fthat had been Schaub, I'd call it dirty. Im as big of a homer as they come, but defending an obviously illegal hit after we've dealt with the same on other's boards is not something I'm going to do
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Thanks for the heads up...I had only seen the replay a couple of time. Since Dobbins is basically saying he saw the QB as a passer I officially crawfish from my previous position.


Edited...Now Dobbins is saying he thought it was a running play...

I think I need the Elias Sports Bureau to figure this out for me.
 
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gtexan02 said:
Dobbits said outright he tried to hit Cutler up high because he was in the process of throwing and thought it would make him mess up. This proves a few things:

1. Dobbins hit Cutler as a passer, not a runner. Cutler's arm was cocked, too. Dobbins knew he was passing.

2. Dobbins purposefully hit him up high even though he could have hit him hip high instead. He even said he chose not to hit him hip high on purpose


Dobbins makes pretty clear contact with Cutler's head. Dirty or not makes no difference. I twas a pretty vicious hit, was definitely illegal, and Dobbins deserves both a penalty and a fine. I fthat had been Schaub, I'd call it dirty. Im as big of a homer as they come, but defending an obviously illegal hit after we've dealt with the same on other's boards is not something I'm going to do
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That doesn't match what he said in this article - Link

“I just felt like he was going to take off and run with the ball and I thought he was past the line.”
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HoustonFrog said:
Come on. It was purely an illegal hit. Cutler is a dbag but it was illegal. He was still a QB...and I think also still behind the line..looking to throw. He hit him right in the head while running at him to tackle him. Under NFL rules now its easily an illegal hit.

Watch it again...it wasn't some incidental contact. I wouldn't call launching but he smacked him and left his feet.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000093552/Cutler-injured-on-illegal-hit
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What video are you watching cus he never left his feet. Cutler was over the line and a runner. You can't guard against stupid and Cutler had plenty of time to defend himself by sliding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-wu6VwU6hI
 
infantrycak said:
It really doesn't matter if he is considered a QB or a RB. Rule 12, Section 2, Article 7(a) defines defenseless player and states "(1) A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass." So the player's position doesn't matter. LT threw a bunch of TD passes. If he had been nailed high while passing he would have been a defenseless player.
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And since Cutler was called for an "illegal forward pass," he empirically was identified as "a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass" which carries the definition of "defenseless player," who cannot be exposed to a helmet-to-helmet hit. The latter penalty was not called on the field, but technically should have been, and this will be acknowledge by a fine from the league against Dobbins.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
And since Cutler was called for an "illegal forward pass," he empirically was identified as "a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass" which carries the definition of "defenseless player," who cannot be exposed to a helmet-to-helmet hit. The latter penalty was not called on the field, but technically should have been, and this will be acknowledge by a fine from the league against Dobbins.
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The hit doesn't look helmet to helmet. Dobbins' head appears off to the side. The head jerk from Cutler is due to the sudden stop of the rest of his body.

You can't not hit a guy who is running at you. Should Dobbins have stepped aside and allowed Cutler to keep running?

Cutlers injury is his own stupid fault. I bet you he won't do that again.
 
TEXANRED said:
The hit doesn't look helmet to helmet. Dobbins' head appears off to the side. The head jerk from Cutler is due to the sudden stop of the rest of his body.

You can't not hit a guy who is running at you. Should Dobbins have stepped aside and allowed Cutler to keep running?

Cutlers injury is his own stupid fault. I bet you he won't do that again.
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Don't hit him above the shoulders...
 
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