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Old 06-06-2005   #21
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dalemurphy is right.

Ragone isn't going to be worth trading until he does something on the NFL level. Right now his greatest value to the Texans is as a potential backup to David Carr in case of injury. Let him compete with Banks for the #2 job in training camp and the preseason. If Ragone looks good and some team gets into an emergency situation and wants to give up a #2 or better then trade Ragone.

However, remember that a good backup QB is extremely important for a team that has playoff hopes. Also, teams sometimes need to use their third string QB if the backup also goes down. The Texans were in that situation in the 2003 season when Ragone had to come in as a rookie and start two games.

If someone gets desperate and pays the Texans price for Ragone, I hope the Texans find someone with some experience to be the #3 QB. I would hate for Symons to be the #3 with a playoff spot on the line.
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Old 06-06-2005   #22
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Originally Posted by U4ikrob
IMO think we will trade him if possible and will look to get at least a High second or late first or maybe a late second and third pick.
There is no way another team will give up a first or second rounder for Ragone based on his performance in NFL Europe. He needs to show something against NFL competition to attract that kind attention.
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Old 06-06-2005   #23
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never say never....i remember some people saying we would never get anything higher than a 7th rounder if that for drew henson.....if he can pull a 1st rounder out of ragone then by all means ship him off......who has a history of dumb trades...miami maybe? somebody convince them that dave ragone is an anagram of ricky williams and we might hit 2 first rounders. who would you rather have....dave ragone, or aj feely?
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Old 06-06-2005   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swtbound07
never say never....i remember some people saying we would never get anything higher than a 7th rounder if that for drew henson.....if he can pull a 1st rounder out of ragone then by all means ship him off......who has a history of dumb trades...miami maybe? somebody convince them that dave ragone is an anagram of ricky williams and we might hit 2 first rounders. who would you rather have....dave ragone, or aj feely?

yeah ur right just cause a guy hasnt shown much doesnt mean anything, Drew Henson didnt show ANYTHING. If a team thinks a guy can help their team regardless of who he is a team will go after him. And he has shown some good stuff over in NFLE i say we could get a 3rd rounder for him MAYBE a late 2nd.
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Old 06-06-2005   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyfro
as for chance mock...the guy got the shaft in college...but you can't give him too much of a chance if he couldn't beat out vince young and then refused to go to a DII school to get some playing time...the guy could have easily transfered to SFA or Texas State like dustin long did and started for a year...so as much as i wish him the best he did nothing this past year to help himself
Chance Mock showed leadership and team loyalty by staying at Texas. If he had transferred, Texas would have been left without a backup for Vince Young. In the end, Mock sacrificed individual recognition for his teammates and coaches. There are 32 NFL coaching staffs and front offices who are impressed by that kind of attitude when they are considering a potential backup quarterback.

"...he did nothing this past year to help himself"
Yeah....Sure....Right....Uh huh....

There are many influential alums of The University of Texas who have long memories.

There are many more UT football fans who have long memories.

Chance Mock will never have a problem finding a job or a free drink in the state of Texas.
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Old 06-06-2005   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BornOrange
Chance Mock showed leadership and team loyalty by staying at Texas. If he had transferred, Texas would have been left without a backup for Vince Young. In the end, Mock sacrificed individual recognition for his teammates and coaches. There are 32 NFL coaching staffs and front offices who are impressed by that kind of attitude when they are considering a potential backup quarterback.

"...he did nothing this past year to help himself"
Yeah....Sure....Right....Uh huh....

There are many influential alums of The University of Texas who have long memories.

There are many more UT football fans who have long memories.

Chance Mock will never have a problem finding a job or a free drink in the state of Texas.

I would be honored to buy Chance Mock a drink.

Also, I hope he gets a contract offer from the Texans by the time they break camp.
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Old 06-06-2005   #27
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that maybe but what does any of that have to do with him playing football nothing...you think the aggie fans hate dustin long for leaving to go to sam houston to try and extend his career...heck no that's just silly...to say that he had some sort of obligation to UT to stay on as a back up his senior year is silly...by staying to be a back up to vince young tells me he was afraid of going some place new with out having benson to hand the ball off to...i understand that has a UT alum you have a warm spot for the kid and that's great but look at it from a football point of view and it looks like he didn't want to play...as for the Texan point of view on quarterbacks...i see ragone coming in as our #2 QB...i think banks maybe have ran his course out here...symons should be our #3 so we can continue to develop him when the time comes to trade ragone
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Old 06-06-2005   #28
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I am not sure if I missed the news, but did Dustin Long sign on with anyone this year?
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Old 06-06-2005   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gcolby
The elimination of practice squads for the year IS on the table this year. The concept and workings of 'practice squads' are actually dealt with on a year-by-year basis, and I was suprised to see that the owners actually want to nuke them for some arcane reason I cannot remember right now. Must be in work mode or something...
Its time for a new cba between players and owners.
Practice squads are being used as a bargaining chip so to speak.
Union stands to lose about 280 dues paying members if owners eliminate practice squads.

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Old 06-06-2005   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoMan
I am not sure if I missed the news, but did Dustin Long sign on with anyone this year?

i was talking to Alex a Sam offensive linemen the other day and he said that 3 Sam players signed with teams as undrafted free agents, Mathney went to i think he said green bay, and i dunno where he said Dustin Long went, but yes he is with a team.
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Old 06-07-2005   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyfro
that maybe but what does any of that have to do with him playing football nothing...you think the aggie fans hate dustin long for leaving to go to sam houston to try and extend his career...heck no that's just silly...to say that he had some sort of obligation to UT to stay on as a back up his senior year is silly...by staying to be a back up to vince young tells me he was afraid of going some place new with out having benson to hand the ball off to...i understand that has a UT alum you have a warm spot for the kid and that's great but look at it from a football point of view and it looks like he didn't want to play...as for the Texan point of view on quarterbacks...i see ragone coming in as our #2 QB...i think banks maybe have ran his course out here...symons should be our #3 so we can continue to develop him when the time comes to trade ragone
  • Who knows (or cares) about what aggies think
  • Chance loves The University of Texas and decided that he would rather be the #2 QB on a team that was in competition for the national championship than the starter at a Division 2 school
  • As the backup at Texas, Mock knew that he was one injury away from being the starter on a highly ranked team
  • The best players don't back away from competition
  • Symons won't be the #3 QB this year, especially if the Texans are thinking of trading Ragone
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Old 06-07-2005   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansTrueFan
i was talking to Alex a Sam offensive linemen the other day and he said that 3 Sam players signed with teams as undrafted free agents, Mathney went to i think he said green bay, and i dunno where he said Dustin Long went, but yes he is with a team.
Dustin Long had a tryout with the Cowboys, but he has not been signed to a contract.

Division 1AA players who have signed or had tryouts

Ourlads depth charts and player search
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Old 06-07-2005   #33
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Originally Posted by BornOrange
There is no way another team will give up a first or second rounder for Ragone based on his performance in NFL Europe. He needs to show something against NFL competition to attract that kind attention.
I allready covered this one above - as I said there - He cant really do that without opportunity. Opportunity he will rarely if ever get if on this team as we are set at QB for a starter. His stats over the course of the whole season speak about how he competes with NFL talent. Granted it's not against the Best NFL Talent but it is against NFL quality of players. And it would be one thing if he just went over there and did ok - and won half his games and played lack-luster ball. But he played awesome - lit up the league with MVP numbers and percentages better than Carr's along with a much better Passer rating and TD/int ratio. Yet you and alot of people on this board seem to be busting this guys balls for doing well when "Given an opportunity to play" IMO He's never going to have that opportunity to start here with David Carr in the driver's seat allready unless he gets hurt. Of course with the O-line we have thats not necessarily something that might not happen, but thats another topic. IMO think he's played well enough he should merit at least a decent draft pick and has certainly increased his value above his draft status. With 2 years exp, an MVP season and world bowl NFLE title game, I think hes primed for any team who needs a new QB to start with and would be a good QB to bring in for competition to any team. He could be a starter on a few teams in this league if he were there. Honestly I think he's a starter and just needs playtime to prove it.

It boggles my mind that you think he's barely worth the Third round he was drafted in? Honestly whats he got to do to prove more that he can play in this league without being the starter?
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Old 06-07-2005   #34
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It boggles my mind that you and TexansTrueFan think he's barely worth the Third round he was drafted in and maybe a late second round? Honestly whats he got to do to prove more that he can play in this league without being the starter?
That is exactly the point. He is going to have to step in and be the starter for a game or two while Carr is injured for teams to see what he can do against NFL competition. Maybe an impressive showing during the preseason will be sufficient, but it will probably take regular season snaps.
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Old 06-07-2005   #35
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If he is not worth at least a second round pick, then we should keep as the long-term back up.

If we trade him for a third, then we just spent three years bringing him along for a ZERO return on investment. That was the idea initially stated for drafting Ragone in the third round - to develop him and then trade him for a higher round pick.

Actually, with the time value of money taken into account, trading Ragone for a third round pick at this stage would be a NEGATIVE return on investment. Usually, during the draft, you can usually trade a pick in the current year in a certain round for a pick one round higher the next year. This was apparently the rational for the Drew Henson pick. We used a sixth round pick to draft him initially, and three years later, we obtained a third round pick for him.

Also, Ragone know the Texans system, and after his performance in the NFL Eurpoe, he will now be a "fan favorite." Heck, it is just a matter of time before some knuclehead starts calling for Ragone to replace Carr. You all know the old adage - The backup QB is the most popular man in town. I expect that Carr will play great. But if he ever has as many as two medicre games in a row, (and sooner or later he will) the calls will begin. You watch and see. If you remember two years ago when Caar was injured, there were a number of people on this board suggesting that Banks should permanently replace Carr. Remember the Houston Oiler fans calling for the promotion of Bucky Richardson? This is going to be a lot of fun, albeit all too predictable.
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Old 06-07-2005   #36
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Cut Banks and Ragone, bring in Bucky Richardson. He throws right and left handed.
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Old 06-07-2005   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BornOrange
That is exactly the point. He is going to have to step in and be the starter for a game or two while Carr is injured for teams to see what he can do against NFL competition. Maybe an impressive showing during the preseason will be sufficient, but it will probably take regular season snaps.
And yet, teams draft QBs out of college with ZERO NFL experience, give up 1st round picks and start them. Rags was concidered a late 1st early second round pick until his senior year when his whole team was crap. What would you rather have, some snott nosed kid fresh out of college NO NFL experience or a guy that has been to NFL camps, learned an NFL scheme and shown he can play very well at near true NFL competition? My bet would be the guy with the NFL experience. So, for a team to spend a 1st on Rags would make much more sense than to do so on the latest college phenome who MIGHT work out. If we can't get a high second for him as MINIMUM we should not trade him. We spent a three and did the development work.
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Old 06-07-2005   #38
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What I find so puzzling is why everyone is so eager to trade Ragone right now. Even if the Texans had the best offensive line in the league, Carr is always one hit away from being out for the season. Anyone who has watched the NFL for more than a couple of games knows that backup QB's are extremely valuable.

What would happen if the Texans trade Ragone and then Carr goes down with an injury? And then Banks? With a playoff spot on the line? Remember how bad Ragone looked his rookie year? That would be what Symons would look like this year.

I say keep Ragone at least until he becomes a restricted free agent. Then we can find out how much interest other teams have in him and if he gets a huge offer we could get a first rounder for him.
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Old 06-07-2005   #39
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1. David Carr
2. Dave Ragone
3. Tony Banks
4. Chance Mock (Practice Squad)

As an item of note, the second stringer should be expected to play next year. Hopefully, the third and fourth team QB's will not play. However, as we have already seen, anything is possble.
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Old 06-07-2005   #40
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How would we get a 1st rounder in RFA? I thought teams were only required to compensate based on the player's round in the draft? If we match another teams offer, then we have to sign him to a signing bonus. After that, we trade him and take the signing bonus as a cap hit? So if we could get a 1st or 2nd rounder without a cap hit then wouldn't that be better? I am really lost on how a Ragone trade would affect the cap and what picks we would get for compensation for different levels of offers in RFA. I could use a little light here.
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