Kraft: "London ready for own NFL team"

[welsh texan]

Originally Posted by Hookem Horns

I don't know how the Brit fans here look at it, however I look at watching foreign sports like having ethnic food. I enjoy experiencing other cultures. Since my wife is from Spain and I spend a lot of time over there I have learned the language, learned to appreciate their food and culture which includes watching La Liga.

La Liga is a Spanish thing. When I watch it I only want to watch it in Spanish (not Mexican Spanish either).

IF La Liga decided one day to put a team in the US it would be a real turn off. It would take away the whole Spanish "vibe" it has.

I don't want macaroni and cheese served with my paella and I dang sure don't want my La Liga played in the US or anywhere else outside of Spain.

I am sure most US fans that follow the EPL feel the same way. EPL is English. I had a few friends in Austin that would get up early and head to Fado's an Irish Pub (closest thing to an English pub in Austin) to watch the EPL each week. I went with them a few times and I felt like I was taking in English culture. Put an EPL team in New York and it takes away from that.

To me it's like the NFL is wanting to take the "American" out of American Football.

I know what you're getting at but dude, the whole ethnic food comparison doesn't work in the slightest. Our national dish is curry!

[welsh texan]

This morning's papers are reporting that the NFL are in talks to take over the 2012 Olympic stadium, I'll edit with a link if/when I find one as it was just shown as a headline on BBC Breakfast and won't be back on for an hour. Here we go, must admit I'm posting this without having read the story in full so unsure of the the actual bones of the situation...

The Telegraph

NFL franchises in talks with London Mayor Boris Johnson over Olympic Stadium
...


With other events such as the 2015 Rugby World Cup, the 2017 World Athletics Championships and concerts due to take place at the stadium, the club have also pointed out in negotiations that they would not be the sole beneficiary of new seating arrangements.

This stance from a football club that could require full occupancy of the site more than 25 times a year might have been what encouraged Johnson to explore other tenancy options. An NFL anchor would require the facility for a maximum of 10 occasions each year theoretically permitting Formula One, already on the LLDC’s shortlist of possible tenants, also to use the stadium for an annual race.

Bringing two new sports to east London would have commercial benefits for the capital, which could potentially reach the hundreds of millions of pounds.

“Sunday’s game at Wembley, in front of more than 80,000 fans, further cements London’s reputation as the natural home of American football outside of the US,” the mayor’s spokesman added. “Only last week the mayor, in conjunction with the NFL, announced an expansion from one to two regular-season matches in London from 2013. That means in total an additional £44 million in revenue for the capital from next year.”
...

Well Boris Johnson reckons that London gains £44 million per game so you can see why he's all for it. Anyone else beginning to get a horrible feeling that this may actually be happenning? Seems like all the money men think its a great idea.

Plenty more in the article btw, including the list of other possible tennants, all of whom I think would fail pretty spectacularly, its proven that you can't play Association Football with a running track around the pitch and expect to draw crowds long term...F1 is proposing a once a year event and Bernie Ecclestone will break the city before he signs a favourable agreement with them, just look at the NY/NJ race, the Donnington debacle, the Turkish calamity etc.... all have their different reasons why they've failed but all we cases when Ecclestone wasn't willing to give up enough in negotiations to make it work for the venue. (A big part of the possible deal is that the legacy commitee get 2 or 3 tenants in the stadium instead of one).

Of course West Ham still desperately want the site even though it'd be a disaster, while Leyton Orient's bid is a protest vote at the idea of allowing their bigger local rival's to get an even bigger advantage over them (you've probably never heard of Leyton Orient because they are a lower league club)

[Double Barrel]

I think a London expansion team is a ways off. However, I would not be surprised to see a Super Bowl exported to another country within the next two decades.

[houstonspartan]

Originally Posted by welsh texan

Listen, I'm in danger of bashing this point across for the Nth time here but they don't adjust to local time when they play here, they play the game at the same damn time they play in the US, they practice the same time as they would in the US and the actual players don't spend more than a couple of days on British soil...at most.

Worried about flight times? Buy and run a Concorde and you've just solved the problem. Worried about time-zones and jet lag? You're struggling with reading comprehension.

Ok, I've tried to remain respectful, because, as I said, I love Brits. But your response is the most ridiculous thing I have read.

Play the same time they'd play in the US? Hmm. Ok. So, games in the US start at Noon, Central time, so they'd start at, what, 5 or 6, London time? Ok. So, when, exactly, would they arrive in London? The night before, after flying all night? When would they have time to practice? What about people who don't sleep well on airplanes? When would these guys have time to rest?

Jump on a plane and come back to the United States right after the game? Hmm. Ever notice how most flights from the United States to Europe are at night, but most flights from Europe to the United States are in the early morning? There's a reason for that. When flying TO Europe, leaving at night allows people to connect from other cities. The opposite is true from flying FROM Europe: if you leave London at 8 pm, commercial jets are arriving in the middle of the night, which totally screws up the hub system for people connecting to other flights.

Buy and run a Concorde? Really? Yes, let's buy a supersonic jet that was put out of service several years ago because of safety and cost issues. It'll only cost several MILLION dollars per flight. And: Concordes are too freaking small anyway. They don't hold that many people.

Speaking of flights...the only jets that hold enough fuel to make a cross-Atlantic trip are jumbo jets: 777, 767, A380, and a couple of others. That's it. Do you guys have any idea how much it would cost owners to charter and fly such a large jet over to London?

And all of the people hollering about "get in, get out" of London haven't traveled much. There is no simple, easy, solution for jet lag. It can't be helped. There's nothing we can't do about it. You can't just "prepare at home", fly into London, and fly right back out without the human body and brain having to adjust. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE. And, yes, flying rapidly through time zones IS an issue.

I love London. But an NFL team there is not logistically possible.

[Hookem Horns]

[Specnatz]

Originally Posted by houstonspartan

Ok, I've tried to remain respectful, because, as I said, I love Brits. But your response is the most ridiculous thing I have read.

Play the same time they'd play in the US? Hmm. Ok. So, games in the US start at Noon, Central time, so they'd start at, what, 5 or 6, London time? Ok. So, when, exactly, would they arrive in London? The night before, after flying all night? When would they have time to practice? What about people who don't sleep well on airplanes? When would these guys have time to rest?

Jump on a plane and come back to the United States right after the game? Hmm. Ever notice how most flights from the United States to Europe are at night, but most flights from Europe to the United States are in the early morning? There's a reason for that. When flying TO Europe, leaving at night allows people to connect from other cities. The opposite is true from flying FROM Europe: if you leave London at 8 pm, commercial jets are arriving in the middle of the night, which totally screws up the hub system for people connecting to other flights.

Speaking of flights...the only jets that hold enough fuel to make a cross-Atlantic trip are jumbo jets: 777, 767, A380, and a couple of others. That's it. Do you guys have any idea how much it would cost owners to charter and fly such a large jet over to London?

And all of the people hollering about "get in, get out" of London haven't traveled much. There is no simple, easy, solution for jet lag. It can't be helped. There's nothing we can't do about it. You can't just "prepare at home", fly into London, and fly right back out without the human body and brain having to adjust. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE. And, yes, flying rapidly through time zones IS an issue.

I love London. But an NFL team there is not logistically possible.

According to Ask.com ...

Typical fueling considerations in a 747-200 or 300 allow for 2200 pounds of fuel to be used for taxi to take off. A fully loaded aircraft will use 33,000 pounds during take off and climb to cruising altitude. During the first half of the flight, the aircraft will consume an average of 28,000 pounds of fuel per hour. The aircraft lightens as it burns fuel and at the end of the trip, the fuel consumption drops to about 21,000 pounds per hour. Descending and landing consume the least fuel, around 6000 pounds. The jet carries 52000 gallons.

Read more: How Much Fuel Does a 747 Jet Burn? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_6171011_mu...#ixzz2AtWARKBH

At a cost of about 3.24/gal
http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/economi...ges/index.aspx

Rounding up it is 4900 miles from Houston to London which is roughly a 10 hour flight. Where as a flight from New York to Seattle is 5 hours and just a bit longer from NY to SF.

You can calculate the fuel consumption and coat since

Oh and one last thing, since you love to assume .......

NOT EVERYONE SUFFERS JETLAG!!

By the way acting all high and mighty is not going to help you make your point just make folks ignore anything and everything you say.

[houstonspartan]

Originally Posted by Specnatz

According to Ask.com ...

Typical fueling considerations in a 747-200 or 300 allow for 2200 pounds of fuel to be used for taxi to take off. A fully loaded aircraft will use 33,000 pounds during take off and climb to cruising altitude. During the first half of the flight, the aircraft will consume an average of 28,000 pounds of fuel per hour. The aircraft lightens as it burns fuel and at the end of the trip, the fuel consumption drops to about 21,000 pounds per hour. Descending and landing consume the least fuel, around 6000 pounds. The jet carries 52000 gallons.

Read more: How Much Fuel Does a 747 Jet Burn? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_6171011_mu...#ixzz2AtWARKBH

At a cost of about 3.24/gal
http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/economi...ges/index.aspx

Rounding up it is 4900 miles from Houston to London which is roughly a 10 hour flight. Where as a flight from New York to Seattle is 5 hours and just a bit longer from NY to SF.

You can calculate the fuel consumption and coat since

Oh and one last thing, since you love to assume .......

NOT EVERYONE SUFFERS JETLAG!!

By the way acting all high and mighty is not going to help you make your point just make folks ignore anything and everything you say.

How am I acting high and mighty? I'm simply responding to messages where people say "rent a Concorde" and imply that flying overseas isn't that big of a deal. I am also speaking of my own, specific travel experiences, and the experiences of people that I know that travel.

No, not every one suffers from jet lag; however, quite a few people do. Flying, in general, wears a person down, whether they sleep on the plane or not. As I said, "there is no, simple, easy solution to jet lag."

Also, you can take a 737 from NY to SF or Seattle. You can't take a 737 across the pond.

[LondonTex]

Originally Posted by GP

It's like a traveling circus...you go to see some funky circus acts and then the tents fold up and the circus moves on to another town.

That's what NFL is to Europe: A sideshow that comes to them a few times a year, something "different" to do for a change of pace. Novelty.

Now, for guys like LondonTex and others here like him...it's not a novelty act. It's something they love deeply and are heavily invested in watching and growing alongside. But LondonTex says he knows the UK fan base for NFL is not as vibrant or long-suffering as the handful of games' attendance numbers might show (hope I am not destroying what LondonTex meant to say, just re-wording a bit for illustrative purposes here).

To that extent, the NFL needs to give up. But they won't. For some reason or another, maybe they have analysts and marketing gurus who say so, they tend to think there's diamonds to be mined overseas. Basketball is by far an easier globalized American pro sport because of various reasons...and I think the NFL is getting caught up in a classic case of "Keeping up with the Joneses."

Yeah I agree with you for the most part. As for 'vibrant' , the fanbase is certainly vibrant within the UK NFL subculture (which let's be honest, is what it is - a niche sport in a country dominated by other sports) - it is thriving and growing in the UK and to me that's a good thing. However, I by no means believe the fanbase will be as vibrant or numerically feasible to EVER be able to sustain a franchise of our own, nor do I want it to.

However, I would say this - for the thousands of NFL fans (of all different teams) who come to watch the IS game each year, it is more than a just a sideshow but for many it is the pinnacle of a years worth of anticipation. They look forward to it for the entire year and can't wait for the next one as it gives them the chance to see live NFL, no matter who is playing. For the many non-NFL fans who are curious, yes, I'd agree - to them it would be nothing other than a sideshow.

Whilst I would prefer the games to be off-season games I can understand their excitement as I've felt it myself. I'm more sympathetic nowdays though as the thought of fans losing a home game is not right.

There has already been a slight paradigm shift in my own thinking regarding this. I started off by thinking 'yeah, it'd be great for the Texans to come over someday for a regular season game, but ONLY as the road team' ....then I started to think 'actually, no, I don't really want them volunteering even for that' ...now I'm starting to feel that the only type of game that we should have over here is a pre-season game or exhibition game of some other kind. I don't think its fair to the fans of the teams and as much as 'those up high' say it's good for the game, I just believe it's about money money money. The game is an American game, and should remain that way. I certainly wouldn't want my Soccer team giving up regular season games (whether home or away) to go play in the states. Pre season or exhibition games, fine, but not regular season. So - thats where I'm currently at. I'll still go watch the IS games when they come over next year and for the coming years as I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth and turn down the chance to see live NFL when it's already been decided - but if there was a chance to vote for or against the continuing of the IS game after the next 4 year contract finishes, I'd vote against. I'd certainly vote no to a UK franchise. I get your guys points on here and understand how many of you feel having lost the Oilers - I'm with you on this - like I said before though - I'm not concerned as I don't ever see it happening.

[LondonTex]

One more thing guys - lets not fall out or let this discussion become too testy ...we're all Texans fans, (most of you for way longer than me - I'm still a babe when it comes to the Texans) ...yes, many of you are passionate on these issues but I think we all agree we don't want a UK franchise. It's a dumb idea.
vvv

[GP]

Originally Posted by LondonTex

One more thing guys - lets not fall out or let this discussion become too testy ...we're all Texans fans, (most of you for way longer than me - I'm still a babe when it comes to the Texans) ...yes, many of you are passionate on these issues but I think we all agree we don't want a UK franchise. It's a dumb idea.
vvv

Yes. Agree.

You've been a great contributor here already, mate. Keep up the good work.

[LondonTex]

Originally Posted by GP

Yes. Agree.

You've been a great contributor here already, mate. Keep up the good work.

Thanks bud