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Old 10-27-2012   #21
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Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
Seriously?


Think you may be missing the point. NYC to Houston is a flight of about three hours. London to Houston is about EIGHT HOURS. (I've done it). It's not so much the time change, it's the time change AND spending long amounts of time on an airplane. And that's one way.

Fly in and fly out without noticing the time change? Um, no. Even if you slept well on an airplane (which not everyone does), the body's circadian rhythms would still be screwed up, because your body is flying through several time zones rapidly. That's why it's called JET LAG.

Your "fly in, fly out" scenario calls for about 14 or 15 hours just in the air, for one weekend. Sorry, but, I just don't see how that works.
All true, but it could be managed in theory. To make life palettable for the London team they could do a road-trip and play several road games in a row. For visiting teams, the schedule could be organized so that teams travel while on their bye-week.

Concessions such as these would help, but the London team would still have the biggest home advantage and worst away disadvantage in the league. The other teams most disadvantaged would be the 3 teams sharing a division with London as they'd have to make the trip every year, and as the divisions are currently set, that would likely include us - if the tarps are the team relocated.

The EPL thought about, but ultimately dismissed the idea of a plus-one season where every team played one game overseas. The NFL has already taken a similar move with the current games in London. It seems to me that there is a certain inevitability about this, and as a relocated Londoner who's lived here in Houston through the birth of our new team, I feel really weird about it. Ideally for me if it happened, they'd be in the NFC giving me a non-conference team to partially root for instead of my default position for cheering for whoever in the NFC happens to be playing the cowgirls!
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Old 10-27-2012   #22
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Default Re: Kraft: "London ready for own NFL team"

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Originally Posted by markn View Post
All true, but it could be managed in theory. To make life palettable for the London team they could do a road-trip and play several road games in a row. For visiting teams, the schedule could be organized so that teams travel while on their bye-week.

Concessions such as these would help, but the London team would still have the biggest home advantage and worst away disadvantage in the league. The other teams most disadvantaged would be the 3 teams sharing a division with London as they'd have to make the trip every year, and as the divisions are currently set, that would likely include us - if the tarps are the team relocated.

The EPL thought about, but ultimately dismissed the idea of a plus-one season where every team played one game overseas. The NFL has already taken a similar move with the current games in London. It seems to me that there is a certain inevitability about this, and as a relocated Londoner who's lived here in Houston through the birth of our new team, I feel really weird about it. Ideally for me if it happened, they'd be in the NFC giving me a non-conference team to partially root for instead of my default position for cheering for whoever in the NFC happens to be playing the cowgirls!
Would traveling during the bye week be considered an actual off week? My understanding is that the bye week essentially is a vacation week for the team. That's why you see everyone scatter during the bye week. They're relaxing. Would the players association allow owners to force players to hop on a plane and fly halfway around the world during a bye week?

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but, my understanding is that Houston entering the NFL got the number of teams back to an even number, which allowed for bye weeks to be reconfigured so that bye weeks don't happen to late in the season for any team. That's what I've always heard, anyway. Would an expansion team 5,000 miles away mess this up?
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Old 10-28-2012   #23
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Default Re: Kraft: "London ready for own NFL team"

Just think Seattle seahawks to UK WOWWWZAAAAAA
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Old 10-28-2012   #24
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Default Re: Kraft: "London ready for own NFL team"

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
It is the National Football League. It's not the World Football League or the International Football League.

The day they put a team in London, or Mexico City, or Toronto is going to be a very bad day for NFL fans everywhere. How much do these *******s have to own? How much money is enough?

If they want a league in England start a damn league in England but don't cannibalize your league here to make it happen. I love football and I love NFL football but to be entirely honest there's not one single NFL owner (and this includes Bob McNair) that I don't deep down inside think is a money grubbing slug. It's just what they are. It's their nature. There's not enough money in the universe to fill the hole inside each of them. They have a very good thing going but they seem bound and determined to screw it up if they can find a way. Their biggest problem is simple greed but running a close second is this inability to grasp the concept that more football is not necessarily a good thing. They'll get it up to 20 games a year and have teams all around the world before I die I imagine and even then they'll be trying to break the hot dog vendors union over the price of mustard because they think they're paying too much.
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Old 10-28-2012   #25
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Default Re: Kraft: "London ready for own NFL team"

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Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
Would traveling during the bye week be considered an actual off week? My understanding is that the bye week essentially is a vacation week for the team. That's why you see everyone scatter during the bye week. They're relaxing. Would the players association allow owners to force players to hop on a plane and fly halfway around the world during a bye week?

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but, my understanding is that Houston entering the NFL got the number of teams back to an even number, which allowed for bye weeks to be reconfigured so that bye weeks don't happen to late in the season for any team. That's what I've always heard, anyway. Would an expansion team 5,000 miles away mess this up?
Think it'd be 2 expansion teams most likely London and LA.

I don't want people to get thinking I'm for this idea btw, I'm really not.

I think you'd have an east coast training base that would be available to teams travelling to London as well as the London team travelling to the US.

I also thnk we're too hung up on the UK 'stealing' a club, its Kraft, Goodell etc. who are pushing this because they can see the in their eyes, look at Arsenal who moved from Highbury at around 32,000 seats to the Emirates Stadium with a little over 60,000 seats, and have sold out every single game ever since, with the highest ticket prices in the entire EPL and an average ticket price somewhere around 65.

Tickets for the IS cost somewhere around 100 average I believe, they have to tarp some of the lower sections of the 90,000 seater bowl because the views are obstructed by the sidelines in a way in which they aren't in soccer (most soccer stadia now have front rows that are actually slightly below pitch level to cram more people in) so they'll get say 85,000 attendees, paying 8,500,000 for their tickets, thats before all the extras such as advertising, TV rights, pie and bovril sales (remember last time I went some awful New Yorker shouting "God damn fish and chips...a guy can't even get a hawt dawg" and laughing my face off at him!

I'd be buying a shiny new Jersey specially for the occasion if I was going today, thats another 70 in their pockets...they make unbelievable money out of the one game they play. I'm sure they'll pretty much double their winnings by coming here twice from next season.

I highly doubt the kind of bottom lines they are seeing though would translate to having a full time club based in London. Its a soccer city, even with only an 8 home-game schedule I really do think the novelty would wear off pretty quickly, Im not going to travel the M6/M1 8 times a year to watch my team (not that I'd switch), but in years when the game suits my schedule I do go to the IS. As a one off.

When Jax, Tampa Bay, Miami, St. Louis give up a home game, as much as I feel for their fans, the NFL makes crazy amounts of cash compared to when they have to try selling tickets at $20 and cover the upper decks in tarps just to hide the embarrassment of a blackout.

I don't think the problem is in any kind of charter plane first class flight in which the players do not take any notice of the time difference, in fact I think an away team such as NE who get their bye week bang on mid season and who will have vastly more support within the stadium than their 'home' opponents actually get a pretty good deal out of the whole trip.

In actual fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the crowd is noticeably quieter when NE are on O and louder when NE are on D tonight. (I've heard negative comments in previous years that the crowd don't understand the game because some team like the Buccs are at home and the crowd don't shut up when they're on O, no, none of us support the Buccs!!)

This is why Kraft wants a London team, this is why Kraft pushes to have away games in London for his team every year, he knows its going to favour his team instead of playing a proper away game, and it lines his pockets considerably more than whatever ticket sales a team like St. Louis can manage.

We aren't nicking your sport off you, your greedy bastard sport wants to expand into our zone at a time when sports in general are all trying to become more global. You guys have an F1 race in Texas coming up, 20 years ago it was a European championship which went to different continents maybe 5 times a season. They're expecting as few as 4 European GP's within the next few years. And thats because it makes more money when they fly away.
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Old 10-28-2012   #26
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Default Re: Kraft: "London ready for own NFL team"

Shut up Robert Kraft. Just SHUT UP.
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Old 10-28-2012   #27
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Default Re: Kraft: "London ready for own NFL team"

Firstly let me say that American football is my favourite sport. I realise that we have many NFL fans (of ALL teams) but the UK is not an NFL nation. While it may be my favourite sport, many NFLUK fans see it as their second sport, next to soccer. Secondly let me say that I HATE THIS IDEA! I have debated this over on different UK forums and amongst friends and am part of what I see as a pretty large contingent who strongly oppose this idea. Over on the different forums I've seen strong opposition from the UK mods and admins.

Kraft is a douche for thinking he is speaking on behalf of a many people (which clearly he is not) and IMO much of it is PR. So many factors are against this happening.

Here are just a few I can think of..I know there are many MANY more...

- the franchise would be in London which would rule out a large proportion of UK fans up north and in Scotland who would have no intention of travelling down for 8 games. Many fans travel down from scotland and from up north and across from Ireland for the IS game once a year..and the reason the IS game works so well is because it gives NFL fans of all teams a chance to sample live NFL games.... - the same volume of fans from far flung parts of the UK and Ireland would not be doing this for 8 RS games a year though. I'd hate to see a 90,000 stadium with so much tarp that it makes Everbank look like a sell out. I'm pretty confident that we don't have a large enough UK fanbase in the London area to make this a sensible and feasible option. Garnering new support for NFL is one thing - garnering enough support to financially uphold an English franchise is quite another. Lets face it, it's still a niche sport in this country. Many UK fans are soccer fans first and foremost and will not choose NFL over their soccer teams if the 2 clash...As for our other popular sports, rugby union and rugby league we don't even sell out most rugby games each week and they are far more popular here than NFL.
There is a huge overestimation of the British 'love of sport'...rugby union, for example is popular for some of the year mainly due to the international scene...same with cricket. For the rest of the year EPL (and the other soccer leagues) is the only show in town I'm afraid. NFL would fall a long way behind for most.

-if it was an expansion, think logistics. Would all the owners vote for this even if one team wanted to turn its back on America? Not so much... Travelling is expensive enough for teams without a trip to London to worry about

-I don't think people would want Wembley (our hallowed English turf) turned into a spud turf for 5 months of the year so a new stadium would need to be built/ used- not gonna happen!

- A new franchise means a whole new roster...Would many players refuse to play in London? Of course they would. Bo Jackson, Elway and Manning and others have refused to play for clubs - Can you imagine a number 1 pick playing in London? Not so much ! Can you imagine a young kid leaving his family to go play in London? Some may, most would hate the idea.

-New franchises always struggle and the UK are always especially pessimistic about new things- this one would die quickly. A waste of time IMO

-Teams would fight till the cows came home to avoid being in the same division as a London franchise. West coast fixtures would be awful...imagine the flight time for either team. Thats why I feel bad for teams like the niners who come and play here for the IS game.

-Salaries - . Which country would the UK franchise staff be taxed in? Would they be based on the east coast and just fly in for games? If they were based here, earning their living here, they would be taxed unfairly compared to their US counterparts. The whole thing stinks.

Most NFL fans here have their own team that they have followed since the 80's, 90's and beyond. Would they suddenly drop their team to support a UK franchise? Some would, I doubt most would though. Some may adopt them as their second team but this 'casual support' along with the 'new fans' would not be enough to sustain this franchise long term.

The scheduling would be an absolute nightmare. I could go on and on. Let me also say this - the NFL in the states is raking in billions of dollars each year. the NFL is NOT in decline - do they need to tap out into other countries in terms of interest, merchandise etc....sure, fine. But to transplant 53 young men to another country to play for a franchise? Not a hope in hell. It seems to me that Mr Goodell just wants to be 'the man who took the NFL to the world' as his legacy.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. I may be wrong but I'm passionate about it and so are many others I speak to. I absolutely hate this idea...and as a Londoner it's important that all my new friends on here know that I'm absolutely not on board with this terrible idea. Personally I don't think it'll ever happen. I won't compare it to the shambles that was NFL Europe because that was a completely different animal altogether but this new franchise/relocated franchise will not happen...not in my lifetime anyway.

p.s if the NFL simply must have an international franchise then why not do the sensible thing and put one in mexico...they have a lot of NFL fans there after all. Imagine the potential for the rivalries between mexican teams and Texan teams ...just a thought.
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Old 10-28-2012   #28
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Default Re: Kraft: "London ready for own NFL team"

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Send the jags. They are playing 2 games a year there anyway.
Er, No - that would suck ... Don't forget who's also in their division
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Old 10-28-2012   #29
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Default Re: Kraft: "London ready for own NFL team"

LondonTex made an extremely interesting point about tax. How is a London franchise going to attract anyone in FA when they will be taxed 50p in the 1.
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Old 10-28-2012   #30
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Default Re: Kraft: "London ready for own NFL team"

A London game sells out right now because it is a unique event and a curiosity. Europeans are soccer fans. Until their kids and schools begin to play football (that is unlikely to happen) it will never catch on in a big way, and I don't think that they should have a franchise.
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Old 10-28-2012   #31
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Default Re: Kraft: "London ready for own NFL team"

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A London game sells out right now because it is a unique event and a curiosity. Europeans are soccer fans. Until their kids and schools begin to play football (that is unlikely to happen) it will never catch on in a big way, and I don't think that they should have a franchise.
Yeh, we have this thing over here called 'Health & Safety'. Schools are barely allowed to play rugby let alone starting to play American Football.
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Old 10-28-2012   #32
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Default Re: Kraft: "London ready for own NFL team"

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A London game sells out right now because it is a unique event and a curiosity. Europeans are soccer fans. Until their kids and schools begin to play football (that is unlikely to happen) it will never catch on in a big way, and I don't think that they should have a franchise.
True - I know some universities play it here. Every now and then you hear a fairy-tale about a Brit making it in the NFL(not straight outta English university mind lol). Heck - the smallest high school football games in the states get way more fans coming out to watch than our university games...that goes for soccer too. Everything is different here. You get more people going to watch a college football game than we do an EPL game in most cases. Kinda puts things into perspective. When I was a 7 or 8 year old ankle-biter, back in the 80's we used to play American football at junior school, as a recreational sport because the playground monitor was a former player and the NFL had a cult following here on TV in the 80s. But that's what it was to us kids....a recreational thing. Even the guys that play today in our British leagues have no grandiose delusions that they will make mega-bucks, make it as a pro and make it big...it's something they do for the love of the game. Lets keep things in perspective. The NFL is a Pro game, played by American professionals. Trying to replicate that with a UK franchise full of American players, an American FO with possibly a token British player thrown in just to keep the naysayers happy is just trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

I love the NFL...I love America...But I'm happy that I follow the NFL from the UK...I have plenty of avenues to keep up with my beloved sport without sci-fi ideas of a successful London franchise.....I feel part of an exclusive club. It's 'my' sport that nearly all of my friends and family have no interest in. I want it to stay where it is....apart from the odd game here and there I fully believe it will!

I wonder if I got my point across yet
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Old 10-28-2012   #33
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Default Re: Kraft: "London ready for own NFL team"

No just no. AS mentioned the jet lag could really screw teams over. The Londonites would have a lot of trouble watching away games. You would have to keep them interested for 16 games and many many years. The team would have to be good within 4-5 years or it would surely fail. Just no.
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Old 10-28-2012   #34
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Always follow the money.

Kraft has a lot to gain, personally, if there's a team in UK. Follow the money.

When a guy is outspoken for an idea like that--that's impractical to most--it means that guy has money to be made from it. Not sure "how," but certainly there'd be only one reason a US owner would be this in-the-tank for a UK team when they all know, WE all know, it is not a good idea for the actual long term.
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Old 10-28-2012   #35
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Default Re: Kraft: "London ready for own NFL team"

No thank you. This is just a big hassle for no reason. There isn't even a need to expand there.
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Old 10-28-2012   #36
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Default Re: Kraft: "London ready for own NFL team"

Money will be the ultimate deciding factor here as usual. If the NFL thinks it can make a lot of money in the UK by putting a team there then it will probably happen sometime in the future. But I think I have a better idea: the NFL should consider creating 32 surrogate teams all over Europe and S. America perhaps. Imagine a Houston Texans team based in Europe! I think that would be pretty cool. They would wear the same uniforms and logos. I think this will not only generate revenue but also create genuine interest in following these teams because of the name attached to them. A part of the problem with NFL Europe was that most fans stateside did not identify with these teams. If fans can identify and relate with the teams then it will automatically generate interest.
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Old 10-28-2012   #37
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Default Re: Kraft: "London ready for own NFL team"

To piggy off of Nawzer ,Knowing the nfl ,the would put a Texans related team in Spain where bull fighting still goes on
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Old 10-28-2012   #38
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Default Re: Kraft: "London ready for own NFL team"

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Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
To piggy off of Nawzer ,Knowing the nfl ,the would put a Texans related team in Spain where bull fighting still goes on
Ole!
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Old 10-29-2012   #39
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Default Re: Kraft: "London ready for own NFL team"

Well after watching yesterday's blowout in London (on TV) I'm happy I sold my tickets - with the money I bought an authentic Foster Jersey and had money left over.

What a terrible atmosphere at the game. Most people that went said it was awful, dull and many 'fans' who were casual fans no doubt, seemed disinterested. Many don't know about making noise on third down or any other noise for that matter. I turned over to gamepass to enjoy the Dolphins spanking the Jets after a while
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Old 10-29-2012   #40
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Default Re: Kraft: "London ready for own NFL team"

This is not a good idea. I really feel sorry for the players that would spend half their games with all that travel time. That team will never be in the playoffs because their players are going to be to tired to play all their road games.

This idea sucks.
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