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Old 10-22-2012   #1
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Default Yahoo Article: Input From Rosenfels

Interesting heariing from someone with the highest level of knowledge of Kubiak's system.
Quote:
"It's football's version of Newton's Third Law of Motion," longtime NFL quarterback Sage Rosenfels, who played for Kubiak's Texans from 2006-08, said Sunday night. "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. In this case, whatever the defense decides to try to take away, he has an answer for it."

The foundation of Kubiak's offense, according to Rosenfels, is that players are coached to behave almost identically on running and passing plays. Defenders are constantly kept off balance because they can't be sure that what they're seeing is actually what's taking place and because if they take aggressive action to stop a particular type of play, Kubiak has a built-in mechanism for making them pay.

"They're the ultimate play-action team," Rosenfels explained. "They teach you to behave very similarly on run plays and pass plays, and it's very easy to get fooled. There were times when I played there that the back judge would walk up and say, 'Guys, I can't tell when it's a run and when it's a pass your play action's that good.' For example, the fullback on a pass play will still hit the linebacker as hard as he can, like he would [run-blocking]. You really keep the defense on their toes, 'cause everything looks the same."
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--mo...nd-in-afc.html
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Old 10-22-2012   #2
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Default Re: Yahoo Article: Input From Rosenfels

And then there's those plays which we don't know if we should run or pass

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Old 10-22-2012   #3
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Default Re: Yahoo Article: Input From Rosenfels

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And then there's those plays which we don't know if we should run or pass

LOL, I laughed so hard!

Good one!
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Old 10-22-2012   #4
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Default Re: Yahoo Article: Input From Rosenfels

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And then there's those plays which we don't know if we should run or pass...
...or fly.
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Old 10-22-2012   #5
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Default Re: Yahoo Article: Input From Rosenfels

A play-action play is good if the tv camerman is fooled and he follows the running back and the television audience misses the pass.
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Old 10-22-2012   #6
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Default Re: Yahoo Article: Input From Rosenfels

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A play-action play is good if the tv camerman is fooled and he follows the running back and the television audience misses the pass.
i hate it when that crap happens
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Old 10-22-2012   #7
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Default Re: Yahoo Article: Input From Rosenfels

Then there's the QB Huey chopper play, which _unfortunately_ we took out of the playbook a few years back..

TJ
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Old 10-22-2012   #8
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Default Re: Yahoo Article: Input From Rosenfels

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Then there's the QB Huey chopper play, which _unfortunately_ we took out of the playbook a few years back..

TJ
From my sig pic archives:

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Old 10-22-2012   #9
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Default Re: Yahoo Article: Input From Rosenfels

Jokes aside, this really is a very good description of the Texans offense.

Much better than the moronic view that it is run first despite how it tends to look in the first half of games.

As for Rosencopter, that was as sick of a game as you could watch on the losing side, but I appreciate people who are pressing more than the ones that don't give effort. He didn't want Manning to get the ball back. Made him try to do things he couldn't do.

Rosenfels has had as bad luck as you can have as an NFL QB but still get paid pretty handsomely. Drafted by someone who wanted him and then new coaching staff came. Went to the abyss that was the Dolphins dysfunction QB development. Came to a good situation in Houston, and may have taken over the QB job in 2006 but for a fluke hand injury that he got because the regular holder had a rare injury. Rare long field goal return, he's the first one down for the coverage, breaks his hand. With his uncertainty, and likely anyway, Texans give up the farm for Schaub. Goes to the Vikings for a better situation, then they do the Favre thing. Does Giants, then Dolphins, but with a mystery illness that is lingering, doesn't have a chance. Because of illness status, Texans couldn't deal for him after Schaub got hurt last year, and the Dolphins didn't release him until it was too late given Schaub's injury.
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Old 10-23-2012   #10
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Default Re: Yahoo Article: Input From Rosenfels

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Jokes aside, this really is a very good description of the Texans offense.

Much better than the moronic view that it is run first despite how it tends to look in the first half of games.
Yeah-sadly the thread title doesn't do the article justice. I hope people actually read the piece. It's really one of the best insights into Kubiak's system I've ever seen.
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Old 10-23-2012   #11
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Default Re: Yahoo Article: Input From Rosenfels

I like Sage Rosenfels. I didn't like that hit or the fumble, but I liked the courage and desire of the man.

Is he retired, or does he still suit up when teams go looking for mid-season replacements due to injury?
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Old 10-23-2012   #12
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Default Re: Yahoo Article: Input From Rosenfels

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Jokes aside, this really is a very good description of the Texans offense.

Much better than the moronic view that it is run first despite how it tends to look in the first half of games.

As for Rosencopter, that was as sick of a game as you could watch on the losing side, but I appreciate people who are pressing more than the ones that don't give effort. He didn't want Manning to get the ball back. Made him try to do things he couldn't do.

Rosenfels has had as bad luck as you can have as an NFL QB but still get paid pretty handsomely. Drafted by someone who wanted him and then new coaching staff came. Went to the abyss that was the Dolphins dysfunction QB development. Came to a good situation in Houston, and may have taken over the QB job in 2006 but for a fluke hand injury that he got because the regular holder had a rare injury. Rare long field goal return, he's the first one down for the coverage, breaks his hand. With his uncertainty, and likely anyway, Texans give up the farm for Schaub. Goes to the Vikings for a better situation, then they do the Favre thing. Does Giants, then Dolphins, but with a mystery illness that is lingering, doesn't have a chance. Because of illness status, Texans couldn't deal for him after Schaub got hurt last year, and the Dolphins didn't release him until it was too late given Schaub's injury.
If your run game is trash, nobody on defense cares to worry about how good your OL and RBs fake a run play that's actually a pass play "in disguise."

This team wasn't deadly until Foster and that OL started tearing new you-know-whats into teams on a consistent basis. Schaub and the WR/TE crew had always been very prominent (That's Kubiak's wheelhouse). It's just that they became ultra lethal when defenses had to account for a newfound running game.

We're a do-what-it-takes offense, not run first and not pass first. But I am a firm believer that the ground game has to have some semblance of productivity on game day for the passing game to work. Otherwise, Schaub ends up on his butt like he did in the GB game two weeks ago. Regularly.
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Old 10-23-2012   #13
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Default Re: Yahoo Article: Input From Rosenfels

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If your run game is trash, nobody on defense cares to worry about how good your OL and RBs fake a run play that's actually a pass play "in disguise."...

But I am a firm believer that the ground game has to have some semblance of productivity on game day for the passing game to work. Otherwise, Schaub ends up on his butt like he did in the GB game two weeks ago. Regularly.
Obviously it is best to have both but this sounds like it comes from a theoretician rather than a Texans fan. Schaub led the league in passing (298 ypg) and AJ led the league in receiving with a crap running game (30th). The year before with a mediocre running game Schaub averaged 276 yards passing when he started.

Commentators repeatedly noted during that time period how well the passing game worked without an effective rushing game.

The Texans built their passing game first. That is historical fact even if it doesn't meet the theory.
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Old 10-23-2012   #14
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Default Re: Yahoo Article: Input From Rosenfels

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From my sig pic archives:

Ugh. I just watched the NFL replay highlights of that game on Youtube and it still makes me sick to my stomach. But now I kind of want to go look at the archives of the gameday thread to torture myself more.
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Old 10-23-2012   #15
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Default Re: Yahoo Article: Input From Rosenfels

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Obviously it is best to have both but this sounds like it comes from a theoretician rather than a Texans fan. Schaub led the league in passing (298 ypg) and AJ led the league in receiving with a crap running game (30th). The year before with a mediocre running game Schaub averaged 276 yards passing when he started.

Commentators repeatedly noted during that time period how well the passing game worked without an effective rushing game.

The Texans built their passing game first. That is historical fact even if it doesn't meet the theory.
I'm not kidding, but GP is a master of disguise who can paint perception as reality.

He has a very vivid imagination, that's for sure (and that's a real compliment).
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Old 10-23-2012   #16
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Default Re: Yahoo Article: Input From Rosenfels

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Obviously it is best to have both but this sounds like it comes from a theoretician rather than a Texans fan. Schaub led the league in passing (298 ypg) and AJ led the league in receiving with a crap running game (30th). The year before with a mediocre running game Schaub averaged 276 yards passing when he started.

Commentators repeatedly noted during that time period how well the passing game worked without an effective rushing game.

The Texans built their passing game first. That is historical fact even if it doesn't meet the theory.
That was the first comment that Rick Dennison said when he came to the Texans. That after looking at tons of tape, he was amazed that the play action worked as well as it did despite a lack of consistent running game.

The running game doesn't have to work. It's much better when it does. The defense just has to not know run or pass based on the feel of the play.

And with some game plans, the Texans come out throwing in the first half. Like you wouldn't even know you had good runners on the team. The run stats get gaudy when you have leads and are using run to burn clock after the lead.
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Old 10-23-2012   #17
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Default Re: Yahoo Article: Input From Rosenfels

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Obviously it is best to have both but this sounds like it comes from a theoretician rather than a Texans fan. Schaub led the league in passing (298 ypg) and AJ led the league in receiving with a crap running game (30th). The year before with a mediocre running game Schaub averaged 276 yards passing when he started.

Commentators repeatedly noted during that time period how well the passing game worked without an effective rushing game.

The Texans built their passing game first. That is historical fact even if it doesn't meet the theory.
Excellent point. Thanks for the perspective.
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Old 10-23-2012   #18
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Default Re: Yahoo Article: Input From Rosenfels

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I'm not kidding, but GP is a master of disguise who can paint perception as reality.

He has a very vivid imagination, that's for sure (and that's a real compliment).
Until one of you guys becomes an NFL coach, we're all stating our opinions.

And TC, just because Dennison says he was surprised how well the play action worked with a crap running game doesn't necessarily equate to your slant on it. I think there's some reaching going on by more than just GP here.

But I don't have a blog, and I don't have access to Wade's play books...sooooo yeah, my opinion is crap, I suppose. LOL. When I think of a truly artistic and mostly pass-happy offense I think of the Saints. The Patriots are there, as well. Folks could argue the Packers fit there, as well.

I don't see us as being those teams, not by a mile. We're balanced, but I'd hate to see this team with a plug nickel RB back there. Get me a Tony Hollings back there and let's see how bad ass this passing offense becomes over a 16-game season.
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Old 10-23-2012   #19
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Default Re: Yahoo Article: Input From Rosenfels

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But I don't have a blog, and I don't have access to Wade's play books...sooooo yeah, my opinion is crap, I suppose. LOL.
No, those have nothing to do with your opinion being crap.

Infantry said it though, Andre & Schaub had their best years in this system, with one of the three worst running attacks in the league.
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Old 10-23-2012   #20
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But I don't have a blog, and I don't have access to Wade's play books...sooooo yeah, my opinion is crap, I suppose.
I posted this in another thread for you: Here's a link to Phillips 2003 playbook. I admit most of it goes way over my head. I really haven't spent much time reading it though.

http://www.footballxos.com/free-foot.../pro-defenses/
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