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Old 06-04-2005   #1
throwANDREtheBALL
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Default O-line is the top priority ?

:brickwall

OK, I would like any one of our beer-goggle texans' fans to tell me what Casserly and Co. have done for the O-line this year ?

They said it was top priority and what have they done ?


Orlando Pace - Offered him an average contract knowing he would pass on. (to make it look like they were doing something)

L.J. Shelton - Offered him a crappy contract, even though he's allowed an average of 5 sacks a year?

Drew Hodgdon - Drafted him in the 5th round. (drafting 3 other positions, and trading away two other picks, before finally addressing the O-line)

Victor Riley - Who in many scouts' eyes is in SERIOUS decline, and was one of the worst starting lineman in the league last year

Musical Chairs - letting Wand and Pitts play a kindergarten game of who can move around the most. (Maybe its going to help with their footwork?)

Changing some Blocking Schemes - which may prove the biggest improvement, but, you can't make chicken salad out of bologna


So in essence the O-line really was one of their last priorities.

If you think you can prove this statement wrong..........got proof ?
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Old 06-04-2005   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by throwANDREtheBALL
:brickwall

Orlando Pace - Offered him an average contract knowing he would pass on. (to make it look like they were doing something)

If you think you can prove this statement wrong..........got proof ?
Got proof that they offered the contract to make it only "seem" like they were doing something????
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Old 06-04-2005   #3
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Default Proof is crap

Proof is crap on message boards unless you state verifiable fact. We all know "seems" is a word that ALWAYS lacks proof. So nobody will have that proof, but I agree with him for one reason. Orlando Pace was using us just as much as we were using him. He needed a team that needed him to get his contract finally. We needed to back up our third year hollow promise of getting a good OL on the field. Orlando being interested in us was, was just as much a charade for his publicity as ours.
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Old 06-04-2005   #4
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The facts about the whole situation was that the Texans KNEW that getting Orlando was a LONG SHOT, but one worth taking.... and they said that publicly many times. Thats all that should be taken from the situation, not a conspiracy theory.

That theory actually goes along with that the O-Line was NOT a priority this offseason and they only did this because they wanted the fans to think they cared about that position, while all along behind the scenes truly thinking they didnt care about improving LT, etc.... Please.

Just because something is a priority, doesnt mean things will go your way. The circumstances just didnt present themselves where it would be worth making the moves at this time. There is still more off season to go, one more year in the 5 year plan, with a huge tackle draft coming up next year.
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Old 06-04-2005   #5
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I think that people aren't giving the o line enough of a chance I mean how many games did the starting five play together? Wade was hurt for a few games, Wiegert missed the last couple of games. Not to mention that Wand was basically a rookie and Pitts was playing a new position. And finally McKinney is McKinney. You can't expect these guys to play like the broncos, ravens or chiefs lines after one season, it took years for thoses lines to get the players that fit the systems. Those lines also have at least one first round pick.
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Old 06-04-2005   #6
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Who knows, this offensive line if kept intact after one more year may just be enough to do the trick. Then we will have been able to make all the other moves we have had, like instilling much needed young talent at the DL position (another offseason top priority).... and still be ok.

Wouldt that be peachy?
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Old 06-04-2005   #7
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i think it's funny most people who criticize our GM/caoching staff only do so because they didn't make the same moves the "message board analysist's" would have, to accomplish the same goal in mind. i think everyone needs to recognize that there are countless ways of accomplishing anything, and just because CC has done things that seem very unconventional to alot of you to shore up the OL does not mean it won't work. of course if it isn't the way you would have done it then you will be inclined to question it, and are encouraged to do so, but being a "tiny chicken" is unnecessary and adds nothing to the evaluating where our team is right now. now this isn't directed and anyone on this thread, and i don't have anyone in mind while i type this, but i just thought i'd express my feelings in the most suitable active thread

and just for the sake of hypotheticals, can anyone give me definative proof that our OL as whole had an off year and didn't realize their full potential last season? im know most of you think this, , is more probable than what i just supposed, but when you don't know, you don't know...and we are not payed to know
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Old 06-04-2005   #8
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Okay, this is interesting:

the 1990 Dallas Cowboys had a horrible OL. Aikman was sacked 12 times in one game against the Eagles that year.

the 1992 Dallas Cowboys had an excellent OL.

Here is the starting OL in 1990 and then 1992:

1990: Tuinei Newton Stepnoski Gesek Gogan (C.Ker)

1992: Tuinei Newton Stepnoski Gogan EWilliams (Gesek)


Amazingly similar... By the way, Williams was drafted in the 3rd round. I wonder if the fans were screaming before the 1991 and 1992 season that the team isn't addressing the OL problems
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Old 06-04-2005   #9
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When did the Texans say the offensive line was a top priority?

Even if they did that doesn't necessarily mean you have to make major personnel changes.
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Old 06-04-2005   #10
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It is my sense that the OL played OK past year, given all the new personnel, the new implementation of a new zone blocking scheme, and some injuries.

Clearly, the performance of the OL last year was not an acceptable benchmark for future performance, especially in the sacks department. The OL must continue to improve, and I believe they will. I don't know why it is so hard for some people to understand that current personnel are capable of improving, are expected to improve, and generally do improve with experience, good coaching and playing time.

New personnel does not equate to improvement, just like throwing money at the educational system does not directly translate into improved performance. Sometimes, the best decision you can make is to be patient and persistent.

The Bible says (Ecclesisastes Ch. 3) -

1 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under heaven:

2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,

3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,

4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,

5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain,

6 a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,

7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,

8 a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.


Also, if I may add:
There is a time to restaff your Offensive Line,
and a time to be patient and stick with the guys that you have.
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Old 06-04-2005   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by throwANDREtheBALL
:brickwall

OK, I would like any one of our beer-goggle texans' fans to tell me what Casserly and Co. have done for the O-line this year ?

They said it was top priority and what have they done ?


Orlando Pace - Offered him an average contract knowing he would pass on. (to make it look like they were doing something)

L.J. Shelton - Offered him a crappy contract, even though he's allowed an average of 5 sacks a year?

Drew Hodgdon - Drafted him in the 5th round. (drafting 3 other positions, and trading away two other picks, before finally addressing the O-line)

Victor Riley - Who in many scouts' eyes is in SERIOUS decline, and was one of the worst starting lineman in the league last year

Musical Chairs - letting Wand and Pitts play a kindergarten game of who can move around the most. (Maybe its going to help with their footwork?)

Changing some Blocking Schemes - which may prove the biggest improvement, but, you can't make chicken salad out of bologna


So in essence the O-line really was one of their last priorities.

If you think you can prove this statement wrong..........got proof ?

pace...I am glad we didn't give up 2 first rounders for him.. Yes we offered a contract knowing we probably wouldn't get him.
Riley is nothing more than a backup ...he can play rt or lt ..depth is important in this league.

about the draft.. ok..that is a no win situation for the Texans..if they draft a tackle (who there really wasn't a great LT in this draft) we'd complain that we need youth on the d-line when/if walker or payne got injured.. about Buchanon.. do you think there would be someone left in the draft that could equal his potential as pr/kr/cornerback..when we pick in the high teens next year (or we should) ..we already know buchanon can play in the NFL.

Shelton..hey ..we offered a contract and he decided to go to cleveland..no big loss imo

musical chairs.. nothing new there..we have done this (move players around) since our first year..I don't understand why people freak out on the reports of this.. Injuries happen.. The Texans want to put the 5 best players out on the line..I imagine every team works that in their system.. heck the oilers did it all the time with mathews..(not comparing the PLAYERS OF MATHEWS AND PITTS , just the way teams move players around)


and besides that.. I feel Center is one of our main weaknesses on the line... I hate the fact that we get stuffed so much when we run up the middle in short yardage situations (I haven't looked at stats so I may be mistaken,but that is what I remember).. and can't recall the last time Carr had an actual pocket to throw from.
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Old 06-04-2005   #12
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The team said that 'protecting the QB' was a priority, not wholesale changes in the line. We have seen them alter the offense in the mini-camps and install timing routes so Carr doesn't hold on to the ball too long. From what I have gathered speaking to others closer to the team than me we are also changing our line protections and the way we call them as well (less isolation). Protecting the QB is more complex than just changing the players.
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Old 06-04-2005   #13
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i like how all you so called Texans fans keep on ripping the team. You guys truly are real fans!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-04-2005   #14
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The O-line is a concern but the D-line was the biggest priority. The only O-linemen in the draft that might help now where Baas and Spencer . The Texans liked Travis Johnson better .

I do believe this is the year that excuses are inexcusable. If Carr gets sacked or pressured alot its time for a change .
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Old 06-04-2005   #15
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The Oline and Dline are always major priorities for teams that are having problems in other positions as well. i think fromn a fan perspective, the Oline is the hardest thing to guage in the league. sure you see the sacks given up and some small details, and you can tell when your oline sucks or dominates, but its never like other positins in the league, which are spotlighted more as well as easier to watch. 5-6 guys blocking in different schemes all working together to achieve one thing. they're like a team within a team. let them grow together, they'll get better. we don't need one probowl lineman and 4 average lineman, we need 5 average guys playing together like a probowl line. some team's philosophies are to draft a LT in the fisrt round, pay him huge money and pay other players less, while some teams draft lower round LTs and pay other players more. depends what comes your way. i'm still thinking if the line doesn't play up to expectations, especially wand, Pitts will move back to LT and stay there. Pitts was solid at LT and would only improve.
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Old 06-04-2005   #16
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man oh man, I'll be glad when the season is here so we can stop rehashing this topic. Well, at least stop speculating and have some game tape to reference.
I'm not saying that you aren't justified in being concerned with the o-line, but maybe this thread might have been better placed in one of the many that cover this topic.
I'm sure the catalyst was Shelton signing with Cleveland, so in essance, it's a semi-new topic, but I man I'm tired of all this o-line regurgitation.
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Old 06-04-2005   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm
man oh man, I'll be glad when the season is here so we can stop rehashing this topic. Well, at least stop speculating and have some game tape to reference.
I'm not saying that you aren't justified in being concerned with the o-line, but maybe this thread might have been better placed in one of the many that cover this topic.
I'm sure the catalyst was Shelton signing with Cleveland, so in essance, it's a semi-new topic, but I man I'm tired of all this o-line regurgitation.
Hate to tell you that Training Camp with pads does not start for another 6 or 7 weeks. unfortunately, that is also the deadest time of the year in regards to football news. the magazines will come out with the analyst who will say the same thing about the Texans not addressing the O-line and someone will reference it in a new thread. Wish I had more hope for you.
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Old 06-04-2005   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy
Okay, this is interesting:

the 1990 Dallas Cowboys had a horrible OL. Aikman was sacked 12 times in one game against the Eagles that year.

the 1992 Dallas Cowboys had an excellent OL.

Here is the starting OL in 1990 and then 1992:

1990: Tuinei Newton Stepnoski Gesek Gogan (C.Ker)

1992: Tuinei Newton Stepnoski Gogan EWilliams (Gesek)


Amazingly similar... By the way, Williams was drafted in the 3rd round. I wonder if the fans were screaming before the 1991 and 1992 season that the team isn't addressing the OL problems
DM - I think patience in OL development is key...your point I believe.

OT: If you look at Wade and Wand, they are both young, have awesome size and tremendous potential. Those attributes alone, along w/added experience will make them better. Add to that, the changes in the offense w/more quick, timing routes and you'll putting less pressure on them.

OG: Pitts is arguably our best lineman. What's exciting is he doesn't have that much football experience and he's been versatile in his three seasons. If he is allowed to develop at LG, we have a potential pro-bowler one day. RG is Wiegerts' to lose, but if he's injured or M. Brown or Riley turn it on, then may the best man win. Having veterans with starting experience is very important to the oline. Hopefully, Wiegert stays healthy and contributes his experience.

C: McKinney is suppose to be the OL leader and a solid starter. I don't get to see many games in Japan, so I can't agree/disagree that his play hurt our line. I don't think we can expect Hodgdon to come in and become a starter this year, unless McK really stinks or gets hurt. Whether Washington or Weary can force competition this year, will determine whether they make the team or not.

If you look at our talent and depth, this group of lineman will definitely be our strongest in 4 years as a franchise. Not because of a lot of new names, but by adding experience in the new system by all of last years guys, a former vet starter in Riley and some youth (Hodgdon & Bubba Evans). Add to this we have more weapons on offense and quicker play execution is being stressed, and we just might be fine with our current group of OL.
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Old 06-04-2005   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdantexfan
i like how all you so called Texans fans keep on ripping the team. You guys truly are real fans!!!!!!!!

i wouldnt be so broad with your comment, i have never bashed the team, and all the guys who do, its only cause they want them to be better. We wouldnt be true fans if we didnt question their motives.
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Old 06-04-2005   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy
1990: Tuinei Newton Stepnoski Gesek Gogan (C.Ker)

1992: Tuinei Newton Stepnoski Gogan EWilliams (Gesek)

Amazingly similar... By the way, Williams was drafted in the 3rd round. I wonder if the fans were screaming before the 1991 and 1992 season that the team isn't addressing the OL problems
Yeah, hindsight is always 20-20. To be fair though, there is a WORLD of difference between the 90 & 92 lines. Gogan was playing out of position at tackle, and Big "E" was the best lineman in football till his high-speed "encounter" with an overpass on the LBJ freeway.

The Texans didn't draft any O-Linemen in 2004 - by comparison, the Cowboys, since 1984 have only had 2 drafts (1990 & 2000) that they didn't draft any. Were they all great picks? No, but you gotta bring 'em in to find out!
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