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Old 10-17-2012   #1
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Default The Return of Jacoby

Realizing he was villified in Houston, I was pleasantly surprised by Jacoby and the presence he brings to the Ravens offense- he matches up well with Torrey Smith on the outside and his returns have been a pleasant surprise.

So far he has been a definite positive for the Ravens. I read somewhere he was under so much pressure by Kubiak to perform; Kub;s would berate him daily in practice, etc., but here has thrived in a positive environment.

Your thoughts?
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Old 10-17-2012   #2
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Default Re: The Return of Jacoby

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94469
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Old 10-17-2012   #3
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He'll eventually cost your team.

Enjoy the honeymoon.
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Old 10-17-2012   #4
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Default Re: The Return of Jacoby

million dollar body, ten cent brain. i'm one of jacoby's bigger supporters here, but kubiak stuck with him much longer than he should've. i'm not sure how it turned out that he didnt get enough support or was under too much pressure, because it seemed the opposite. any "berating" jacoby received was for not doing his job, such as showing up on time.

i want to believe jacoby has finally grown up, but i saw the evidence of his impending return to reality with the pose he struck when getting a P.I. call earlier in the year. yall have used him pretty well, and he's made some big plays as he's known for, but he looks exactly the same to me. sloppy routes, weak hands, same demeanor between cocky and clueless, and looking for the home run. as you'll see soon enough, that home run swing will prove costly with his lack of maturity and focus. drops, fumbles, muffs, and unaccountability will prove to remain the constant.
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Old 10-17-2012   #5
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Default Re: The Return of Jacoby

Some players do better after they move. It's a fact of life in the NFL. Jacoby was a nightmare for the Texans, but he's doing well for the Ravens. No one should be surprised at that. We all knew he had the talent, he just was only occasionally using it here and more looking like a fool most of the time.
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Old 10-17-2012   #6
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Default Re: The Return of Jacoby

He left Houston at basically the same level that he came in. He had his good moments that were surrounded by too many idiotic ones. I'm glad he's gone.
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Old 10-17-2012   #7
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Cool Re: The Return of Jacoby

Jacoby never got better and never matured. He had talent.

The fans kept waiting for his breakout game. Early on he had a few returns. But he never matured into a good receiver and towards the end started making pretty boneheaded plays - dropping easy catches, fumbles, etc.
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Old 10-17-2012   #8
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Default

This is where Ravens fan tells us we don't know as much as we think we know on this topic.

I've seen this all too many times with visiting fans on here.
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Old 10-17-2012   #9
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Default Re: The Return of Jacoby

Sometimes a change of scenery is good for some people. Jacoby really ****ed up down here in Houston, maybe Baltimore is better for him.
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Old 10-17-2012   #10
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Default Re: The Return of Jacoby

Quote:
Originally Posted by handswarmer View Post
Realizing he was villified in Houston, I was pleasantly surprised by Jacoby and the presence he brings to the Ravens offense- he matches up well with Torrey Smith on the outside and his returns have been a pleasant surprise.

So far he has been a definite positive for the Ravens. I read somewhere he was under so much pressure by Kubiak to perform; Kub;s would berate him daily in practice, etc., but here has thrived in a positive environment.

Your thoughts?
I've always thought with a different head coach, with a different system Jacoby would have a productive NFL career. He's not going to the Hall of fame, He's not going to be an All-pro. But he'll be in the league as long as & as productive as Lance Moore, Jabar Gafney, Eddie Royal, Deone Branch, etc...

After he had his break out year, I'd have moved him to the #2 position, get him on the field more, keep him in a rhythm. He would have been great for Andre & Matt.

& if he could play with a QB who can/will regularly throw the ball ahead of him & let him run under it, he'll be an extremely effective weapon, whether he catches the ball or not, the defense will back up, LBs will have to play deeper, especially if they are responsible for the deep middle, because deep will actually mean deep. Safeties will have to play deeper.

I know he gets a bad rap for running lazy routes. I've never seen that. The dude is fast & can change directions on a dime. He's got small hands, that ain't no lie.

But I think it was wrong for Kubiak to keep him buried at the #3 position behind a guy who couldn't get open & posed no deep threat whatsoever, then ask him to "step up" & be the #1 every now & then, then go back to #3... that's never going to work.
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Old 10-17-2012   #11
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Default Re: The Return of Jacoby

you can polish a turd and it may shine for a bit but in the end its still a turd
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Old 10-17-2012   #12
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Default Re: The Return of Jacoby

Quote:
Originally Posted by handswarmer View Post
Realizing he was villified in Houston, I was pleasantly surprised by Jacoby and the presence he brings to the Ravens offense- he matches up well with Torrey Smith on the outside and his returns have been a pleasant surprise.

So far he has been a definite positive for the Ravens. I read somewhere he was under so much pressure by Kubiak to perform; Kub;s would berate him daily in practice, etc., but here has thrived in a positive environment.

Your thoughts?
He was vilified? Meh... He was glorified first. There was s&*t-ton of hype early on, as he was electric. He certainly has the tools and brought it to the house early in his career as a return man and SOME brilliant catches, but he's WAY too inconsistent. But he gradually lost his support in Houston week by week/month by month as his fun to watch return touchdown celebrations became more overshadowed by his drops, fumbles, muffs, etc... Eventually I think alot of fans tired of the roller-coaster ride that is Jacoby. He certainly wasn't run out of town because he was a great receiver and return man.

All in all, MOST around here are glad to see him gone, and saddened by the last Jacoby appearance in a Texans uniform resulted in:


So far he has been a definite positive for the Ravens? Good. Come talk to us when it counts. When Jacoby is at that pivotal point in the Raven's season. Good luck. He could prove his past history wrong... But So far his past history stands for it's self.


You read somewhere he was under so much pressure by Kubiak to perform; Kub;s would berate him daily in practice, etc., but here has thrived in a positive environment? Everyone is under pressure to perform.. it's a man's game. As for berating him daily.. don't tell us you read it.. show us what you read. And the last bit about the positive environment... Alllllmost sounds suggestive of our environment being inverse... NOT.

So, in summary, Jacoby is deemed as HUGE reward - HUGE risk. With the highs, you have to accept the lows. Houston, after 5 years, finally decided the risk came with too high a price.
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Old 10-17-2012   #13
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Default Re: The Return of Jacoby

i'm a bit surprised at your response fiddler. we were on the same page for a long time regarding jacoby, and i felt the same way as you for as long as possible, but last year with and without andre was my breaking point. even with walter splitting the #1 duties jacoby couldnt rise up to a major target ... the oakland game seared into most minds.

as far as not seeing his lazy routes, you're the only one bud ... they're still bad. it's not as magnified in baltimore's offense which is a bit more open, but his lack of precision was glaringly obvious in our scheme. i called him a "weapon" when defending the re-signing, and still see it that way, but he's simply too unstable and refuses to grow up. he'll have a middling 3rd WR season, possibly better with the ravens leaning on him, but the forecast (and i do wish him the best) looks bleak.
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Old 10-17-2012   #14
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Default Re: The Return of Jacoby

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Originally Posted by Trail.Blazr View Post
He was vilified? Meh... He was glorified first. There was s&*t-ton of hype early on, as he was electric. He certainly has the tools and brought it to the house early in his career as a return man and SOME brilliant catches, but he's WAY too inconsistent. But he gradually lost his support in Houston week by week/month by month as his fun to watch return touchdown celebrations became more overshadowed by his drops, fumbles, muffs, etc... Eventually I think alot of fans tired of the roller-coaster ride that is Jacoby. He certainly wasn't run out of town because he was a great receiver and return man.
Special teams wise, we're still having the same problems. Even fumbles & muffs, after getting rid of our second (our second) return specialist (specialist).... & we still can't block for the guy.

I was watching Green Bay's special teams, every kick-off return that resulted in a touch back, every man ran through the end-zone. Every man. If we kicked the ball off that ended in a touchback, half the team was headed towards the bench once they got to the 20 yard line.

Probably means nothing, right? & How does this relate to Jacoby?
Quote:
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All in all, MOST around here are glad to see him gone, and saddened by the last Jacoby appearance in a Texans uniform resulted in:
Jacoby definitely deserves most of the blame for that & I think a lot of the blow-back from that was deserved. However, we (the whole team) were doing things & taking chances that game that we just don't do. Tj Yates consistently throwing the ball into coverage for one.

I've got no evidence to back it up, other than I thought that was an uncharacteristic performance from the whole team. The Defensive guys stepped it up big time. That's great, they were challenged & they answered the bell.

To me, it looked like the special teams & the offense was challenged to do the same that resulted in poor decisions. To me, that's knowing your players & knowing how to get 112% from them. We saw one coach who managed it well & two that didn't.

None of that takes responsibility away from the players, I don't think. Jacoby shouldn't try to field a ball on the rebound with a defender in his face. But why in the heck was there a defender in his face?

Last year we were right there with the best return teams, but none of them had to deal with the constant pressure our return man had to face.

To me, it looked like they were told to "make a play" & they tried, just didn't work out the way we wanted. Bad on the player, I'm not saying otherwise, equally bad on the coach for asking inconsistent players to take chances in such an important game.

I still think we could have won that game if we'd have used the "game manager" approach that got us to that game.

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So, in summary, Jacoby is deemed as HUGE reward - HUGE risk. With the highs, you have to accept the lows. Houston, after 5 years, finally decided the risk came with too high a price.
I agree with the huge risk/huge rewards statement. As the head coach/offensive coordinator, you're supposed to be able to manage/limit that risk & maximize the rewards. As fans we've been begging for a deep threat opposite Andre to help relieve pressure on Andre. Jacoby had a productive season for a third receiver, followed by another season that would have made him a starter (#2) on just about any other team in the league... he's outperformed the guy in front of him in "reciever stats" but is constantly told that is not good enough??

I know Andre has had great years regardless where/when Jj lined up, but I guarantee you he would have had even better numbers with a burner like Jacoby lining up across from him on a more regular basis. I guarantee you if Jacoby was playing instead of KDub the other night, it would have been a different game all-together

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bitter that Jacoby left, I'm happy for him. It's screwed up that he went to the Ravens (who will probably be our biggest rival over the next 10 years) but leaving this team (which I love) is probably more beneficial to Jacoby than us (we don't have the QB or the Coach he needs to succeed. Doesn't make us a bad team, just different, not a good fit.)

Think about that kid that you used to love hanging around with when you were younger. You felt sorry for him, because he's got all the talent in the world, an infectious smile, & wouldn't hurt a fly. He's a good kid, but you know he won't be able to escape his environment. His life is going to be wasted because of his circumstances.

I know we see this scenario play out all the time, with your Andre Johnsons, Jabar Gafneys, Kevin Walters... etc. But to me, Jacoby is different. He didn't go to Miami, or Florida, or Eastern Michagan, or any Div I program. He's a totally different kind of success story that I love & I know about this story because of the Houston Texans, because of Gary Kubiak, so there is no ill will there, only gratitude. I love the Texans more than I love Jacoby Jones, which is why I'm here & not a Baltimore fan.

I'm not related to Jacoby, never had the pleasure of meeting him, but I see kids like Jacoby all the time & I think Jacoby's story is a good story for those kids, an inspiration. In the NFL there's only one champ, but in life there are all kinds of winners. He's not the best receiver in the league, but Jacoby is a winner. Period.
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Old 10-17-2012   #15
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Default Re: The Return of Jacoby

I was talking to a co-worker from Baltimore. He knows all about Jacoby, but is happy with him so far. He thinks Jacoby may come in with a chip on his shoulder to this game.

I believe he may be right, but is that fair. The coaches and management gave him too many chances really, so does he have a right to be mad at Houston for cutting him?

If he lights it up Sunday I will be so pissed. I don't wish the guy any ill will, I hope he keeps it together, but he has no right to be pissed at Houston IMO.

I'm still wondering where I can find a clip of Jacoby getting a key to the city in Baltimore for his performance in last years playoff game......
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Old 10-17-2012   #16
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Default Re: The Return of Jacoby

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Special teams wise, we're still having the same problems. Even fumbles & muffs, after getting rid of our second (our second) return specialist (specialist).... & we still can't block for the guy.

I was watching Green Bay's special teams, every kick-off return that resulted in a touch back, every man ran through the end-zone. Every man. If we kicked the ball off that ended in a touchback, half the team was headed towards the bench once they got to the 20 yard line.

Probably means nothing, right? & How does this relate to Jacoby?
It doesn't. Neither the Texans S/T blocking woes nor Green Bay's running through the endzone on a touch back is irrelevant in terms of Jacoby's tendencies for muffs/fumbles. Certainly the S/T blocking would present MORE opportunities for a return, but at the core of the return, the return man HAS to field the ball or waive it off. I don't care if the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse is thundering down the field unmolested with the intent of BURYING the return man... HIS job is to first and foremost field the ball or waive it off.. period. When a return guy CONSISTENTLY fails that aspect, it's unacceptable.. No MATTER how brilliant a runner they are.

To me, Jacoby's biggest problem was looking up field before looking the ball into his hands. We see it time and again in football. It happens. But with JJ, it happened too often and more importantly, it seems the timing of it was the worst moments. That is likely a result of getting ahead of the play, out of sheer will to do something GREAT! No denying his talent. Look, I'm not suggesting anyone hate or love on Jacoby. With his Jekyl-n-Hyde act, it's very probable that a lot of us did both!

Blame it on Jacoby? Blame it on poor blocking? Blame it on poor coaching? Blame it on what ever you want... He still has to catch the ball, or he's not doing his job.

Bottom line is, the biggest reason he was given his walking papers was his inability to field the ball consistently. Take that away and he's AMAZING.

On a side... in respect to your reference to (our second) return specialist... I feel Trindon was let go for different reasons all together. Fortunately for him, he wasn't hated on like Jacoby was. But ironically, I'm guessing Kubiak & Smith felt vindicated by their decision to release him when they watched the Monday Night Game in San Diego.
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Old 10-17-2012   #17
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Default Re: The Return of Jacoby

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It doesn't. Neither the Texans S/T blocking woes nor Green Bay's running through the endzone on a touch back is irrelevant in terms of Jacoby's tendencies for muffs/fumbles. Certainly the S/T blocking would present MORE opportunities for a return, but at the core of the return, the return man HAS to field the ball or waive it off. I don't care if the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse is thundering down the field unmolested with the intent of BURYING the return man... HIS job is to first and foremost field the ball or waive it off.. period. When a return guy CONSISTENTLY fails that aspect, it's unacceptable.. No MATTER how brilliant a runner they are.

To me, Jacoby's biggest problem was looking up field before looking the ball into his hands.
I agree 100% again, I'm not taking any fault away from Jacoby. I am saying we've had two "specialist" with the same issue. There is a reason for that. Doesn't excuse the player, his responsibilities are cut & dry. I'm only saying we didn't help him any. Gave him multiple chances to succeed... yeah. Put him in a position to succeed, from a return-man's perspective, no. It's like putting a QB behind an offensive line that has repeatedly underperformed in protection responsibilities.

This is the last word I'm going to say on Jacoby Jones. I'll look forward to his success in the NFL, like I said he's a good story for many, many kids. I won't root for him. Not against Houston. I'm not going to root for him as a Raven, I don't roll like that.

But Jacoby & his success, Leach's success, Pollard's success show that we have issues on this team. Some have been fixed.... Wade. Some have not.
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Old 10-17-2012   #18
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Default Re: The Return of Jacoby

For a long time, Texans fans have been craving for a young, talented receiver to take over the #2 role, and also be the heir apparent to Andre Johnson as the go-to guy. In Jacoby's rookie season, especially the pre-season, he really took us all by surprise, and we felt we got the steal of the draft. Texans fans thought we finally found that guy. Just about everyone had high expectations for this guy.

These high expectations, I think, is the main reason why so many were happy to see him gone. He did get many chances to prove he could be a starter on this team, but like what others have said, he didn't step up. He has the size, athleticism, and speed to be a starter in this league, but he has three big weaknesses IMO.

1) He either has weak, or small, hands. He doesn't like catching balls with just his hands. And when he does, he doesn't seem to secure it very fast. He doesn't appear to have that ability to snatch balls in the air. He lets too many balls come to his chest, or he tries to cradle it, this is what leads to alot of frustrating drops.
2) He shies away from contact. Don't expect any big catches out of him in the middle of the field. If he feels he's about to get popped, he'll brace himself before securing the ball or even not make an attempt at the catch.
3) His route running is only mediocre. I think this is why he failed when he would step in for AJ. He can't get open on his own, he relies on others to draw the coverage attention.

As a returner, I thought he was good. He tend to look for the home run too much, and just didn't take what was there alot. This led to alot of running sideways & backwards that frustrated fans. In the past two seasons, though, he did fix his turnover problems. (of course, he had one big turnover in the playoffs)

In my opinion, he was a good returner and 3rd receiver... that's it! He had value on this team. It's evident now, as production from our returners and 3rd receiver have dropped. Since Ravens fans got him for cheap in FA, they really don't have much expectations out of him, so that's why they're pretty happy with him.

I, for one, hope Jacoby succeeds in Baltimore. I like to see all former Texans succeed. Of course, I want them to have their worst game of their careers against Houston though.
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Old 10-17-2012   #19
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Default Re: The Return of Jacoby

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Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post
I agree 100% again, I'm not taking any fault away from Jacoby. I am saying we've had two "specialist" with the same issue. There is a reason for that. Doesn't excuse the player, his responsibilities are cut & dry. I'm only saying we didn't help him any. Gave him multiple chances to succeed... yeah. Put him in a position to succeed, from a return-man's perspective, no. It's like putting a QB behind an offensive line that has repeatedly underperformed in protection responsibilities.

This is the last word I'm going to say on Jacoby Jones. I'll look forward to his success in the NFL, like I said he's a good story for many, many kids. I won't root for him. Not against Houston. I'm not going to root for him as a Raven, I don't roll like that.

But Jacoby & his success, Leach's success, Pollard's success show that we have issues on this team. Some have been fixed.... Wade. Some have not.
To be clear... I am a fan of the kid, in the same way I rooted for Rocky Balboa... Like you stated, a small time kid from Lane College(where you say) comes to the NFL unpolished and makes a splash. I was merely dragging him through the mud to speak to/defend the notion given by the OP, that JJ was vilified, which can't be denied, but can certainly be justified.

If he can turn it around in Baltimore, awesome. If for the reasons you suggest, even better for him.. woe is we. So far, it seems he's turning out to be what Raven Fans/Jacoby Fans wished for. Buyer beware.
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Old 10-17-2012   #20
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Default Re: The Return of Jacoby

My criticism of Jacoby stemmed from not being very good at catching the ball and badly badly timed turnovers. You guys may have a good year out of him this year, but if he doesn't continue to work ball security he's going to erase all those kudos in a real hurry.

As far as receiver he was okay, but he never elevated himself above Kevin Walter in my eyes. While he had much better physical traits to be a WR, he just really didn't get much separation, and he was pretty inconsistent in terms of catching the ball. If he's cleaned all that up then maybe you got yourselves a gem, but while in Houston I believe (With no real proof to back this up other than on-field performance) that he just didn't put as much work into becoming a better WR as he probably should've. Maybe with a coaching change and a wake-up call he re-invented himself but give him a whole year and then evaluate his performance to get a better idea of what Jacoby Jones is as a player.
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