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Old 10-11-2012   #61
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Default Re: Elias Sports Bureau removes sack from JJ

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Originally Posted by Señor Stan View Post
If you look at the O-line they are run blocking and push well beyond the LOS.
The whole point of a play action is to make it look like a run play. That doesn't work if the blocking doesn't look like run blocking.

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Originally Posted by Perki-Perk View Post
This is the part I think people are getting confused on, "while he is attempting to pass". If the QB is in a handoff motion until passing the running back and going into passing stance, is he not in something that appears to be a running play. Doesn't matter until he drops back. Same thing with Shaub, if he runs a bootleg to foster, then he is not "attempting to pass" until he turns his eyes back around toward the field to find a receiver. You cannot do no look passes while looking in completely the opposite direction, at least not with much success. They are a very high degree of difficulty. Hope this helps. I would rather credit be done properly. Last thing we need are astericks next to JJ Watt as the NFL sack leader when there are stats in question.
Hope it helps? Not at all and it doesn't reflect NFL reality. Schaub has been hit with sacks for exactly what happened here - getting stepped on or tangled with the center. Botched snaps and exchanges where the ball is never fumbled but result in the QB getting tackled behind the LOS are routinely counted as sacks. QB's who tuck the ball and take off to run but don't get back to the line of scrimmage are counted as sacks. QB's get tackled on delayed draws and it goes down as a sack. Running out of bounds behind the LOS is considered a sack. About the only time a QB is tackled behind the LOS and it isn't considered a sack is where he instantly tucks the ball and starts to run.

Elias shouldn't be in the business of listening to teams. They reviewed the film and determined it was a sack as did all the commentators watching the game. Locker has to go up and gets turned around securing a shotgun snap and Quin plasters him as soon as his feet hit the ground it would go down as a sack. The Tacks shouldn't be able to write in and say "no really he hadn't actively started to try to pass" or "but he was going to hand the ball off from the shotgun."
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Old 10-11-2012   #62
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Default Re: Elias Sports Bureau removes sack from JJ

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
The whole point of a play action is to make it look like a run play. That doesn't work if the blocking doesn't look like run blocking.
They are pushing well beyond the LOS. If it was a pass play they would have been flagged for inelligible men downfield.

Do I think it was a run...Yes

Do I think it is complete horse manure that they go back 4 weeks to review it...Yes

Do I think the Dolphins are a bunch whiney bishes...Yes
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Old 10-11-2012   #63
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Default Re: Elias Sports Bureau removes sack from JJ

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Originally Posted by Señor Stan View Post
They are pushing well beyond the LOS. If it was a pass play they would have been flagged for inelligible men downfield.
If an offensive player is engaged with a defensive player there is no penalty for ineligible man downfield for being past the line of scrimmage.
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Old 10-11-2012   #64
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Default Re: Elias Sports Bureau removes sack from JJ

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I don't see how anyone can look at that and say he was about to hand off. He is tripped by the center on his very first step back. Especially don't understand this from Texans fans - our offense is predicated on making our passing plays look like running plays far longer than that.
Because no QB I've ever seen takes the snap from center, turns/pivots, and then extends the ball unless to hand off or to perform a play action fake. If it's a pure drop back, the QB has both hands on the ball immediately after the snap and does a straight back peddle or or the classic crossover "dance step".

If that had been Schaub executing one of his patented fakes before his naked bootleg, then I wouldn't have been so quick to call run play. But that rookie QB ain't Schaub.

And if you look at Reggie Bush, his hands were opened up ready for the handoff. Again, if that was us, I wouldn't be so convinced it was about to be a run. But then again (and call me a if you wish), nobody ...but NOOO-body, does that run fake as well as WE do. Least of all a rookie.

Again, J.J.'s sack just turned into a tackle for loss; big whoop.


...ain't it simply grand to have these nits to argue about instead of...
- when are we going to draft a LT?
- why won't they replace Petey Faggins?
- when will Mario wake the Eff up and play like we're paying him too?
- why won't they draft a decent RB?

- etc., etc., etc....
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Old 10-11-2012   #65
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Default Re: Elias Sports Bureau removes sack from JJ

If it was a schaub play action bootleg called and he got crushed before he could pull back the "fake" it wouldn't be a sack either
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Old 10-11-2012   #66
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Default Re: Elias Sports Bureau removes sack from JJ

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Because no QB I've ever seen takes the snap from center, turns/pivots, and then extends the ball unless to hand off or to perform a play action fake.
Where have I said anything about a pure drop back?

Yes Schaub is at the top of the league but here is Tannehill on play action - Link On the first step of that you wouldn't know it isn't a run.

And yes it is nice to talk about nits.
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Old 10-11-2012   #67
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Default Re: Elias Sports Bureau removes sack from JJ

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Where have I said anything about a pure drop back?

Yes Schaub is at the top of the league but here is Tannehill on play action - Link On the first step of that you wouldn't know it isn't a run.

And yes it is nice to talk about nits.
I didn't say you said it was a pure drop back; I was answering why I thought it was a running play. my point was that it simply didn't look like he had any intention to drop back to pass to me.

But I get the, "it could have been play-action" viewpoint. I just don't think it was. You're absolutely right, our line play makes either run or play-action look exactly the same. I'm not convinced they're that good at it.
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Old 10-12-2012   #68
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Default Re: Elias Sports Bureau removes sack from JJ

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Defensive Coordinator Wade Phillips

(on DE J.J. Watt losing a sack from the Miami game) “Everybody saw where Elias took the sack away from, they went back and took it away from J.J. (Watt). I’m just wondering why they didn’t go back and take Michael Strahan’s sack away from him when he broke the record. If they’re going to go back and take those things away, it just seems naturally that it wasn’t a pass play, but he gets another tackle for loss. That probably makes him lead the league in that, too.”

(on if he was surprised that Elias took a sack away from DE J.J. Watt now) “That’s what I’m saying. They haven’t done it in the past. When guys set the all-time record, they didn’t’ do it on that play so I’m surprised they did it. But that’s okay.”

(on how that process works) “Normally, the team turns it in after the game and say, ‘Hey, that wasn’t a sack.’ The team you played. That’s what we normally do.”

(on changing credit for a sack or tackle for loss)
“It’s after the game. It’s usually that team, but I don’t know what happened. It wasn’t a sack. At the time, I said, ‘Well, they’re not going to give him a sack because it was a running play. Quarterback fell down. He tackled the quarterback for loss.”
link
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Old 10-12-2012   #69
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Default Re: Elias Sports Bureau removes sack from JJ

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post


seems Wade knows what a sack is as defined by the NFL
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Old 10-12-2012   #70
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Default Re: Elias Sports Bureau removes sack from JJ

He was stepping up into the pocket, pure and simple.

I guess that means he was "running," but the only thing he was running from was a PASS BLITZ that was on him very quickly, and JJ slipped into a crease and tripped him as he stepped up into the pocket to get some space.

Wade is right: How can Favre fall down and GIVE Strahan the record-setting sack, yet in the flow of a real play they can rule Sanchez was never going to pass the ball?

I think this was the Jets, likely Rex Ryan, who engineered this whole ordeal. I can see him being so petty that he gets the sack taken away, like a petulant child who is angry at mommy and daddy over their parenting. He couldn't win the war, so he won the battle of the JJ Watt League Leading Sack. My two cents.
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Old 10-12-2012   #71
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Default Re: Elias Sports Bureau removes sack from JJ

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
He was stepping up into the pocket, pure and simple.

I guess that means he was "running," but the only thing he was running from was a PASS BLITZ that was on him very quickly, and JJ slipped into a crease and tripped him as he stepped up into the pocket to get some space.

Wade is right: How can Favre fall down and GIVE Strahan the record-setting sack, yet in the flow of a real play they can rule Sanchez was never going to pass the ball?

I think this was the Jets, likely Rex Ryan, who engineered this whole ordeal. I can see him being so petty that he gets the sack taken away, like a petulant child who is angry at mommy and daddy over their parenting. He couldn't win the war, so he won the battle of the JJ Watt League Leading Sack. My two cents.



I think you are lost this has nothing to do with Rex, Sanchez or the jets
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Old 10-12-2012   #72
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Default Re: Elias Sports Bureau removes sack from JJ

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Yet Michael Strahan's record breaking gift sack of Brett Favre remains unchanged.

The world is against us!!!!!!!
I actually referenced the Strahan sack in the other JJ thread. Its just one sack so its not a huge deal, but its still very odd. If these are the kind of things the Dolphins will be concerned with after games then I don't think predict any kind of long term success for these guys.
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Old 10-12-2012   #73
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Tackle for loss and sacks are the same thing in my book.

You tackle a guy and the result is a loss of yardage.
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Old 10-12-2012   #74
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Tackle for loss and sacks are the same thing in my book.

You tackle a guy and the result is a loss of yardage.
I'm with you on that. NFL should glorify TFLs more than sacks!
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Old 10-13-2012   #75
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Default Re: Elias Sports Bureau removes sack from JJ

All I have to say to the Elias Sports Bureau is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIMrFpnfvyI
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