Who is the real Gary Kubiak??

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by dream_team

Why doesn't Kubiak get any credit for developing that talent on offense? Keep in mind, AJ is the only high draft pick on offense. Duane Brown was a low first rounder that all the experts thought we reached for. Chris Myers was a 6th rounder. Schaub was a 3rd, Owen 4th, and we all know where Foster was drafted. I always thought this offense was amazing, considering we didn't need multiple high picks to build it.

this is a point that kubiak will never get credit for, though i've harped on it for years. for all the knocks, real and perceived, kubiak has created a top 3 offense year in and year out while using extremely little resources. draft picks and the bulk of the salary cap have been given to the defense since the beginning. this being something i'm sure wade is very appreciative of - especially with the freedom to bring joseph, manning, and the draft with him. until this year with the re-signing of myers, duane and foster, our offense couldnt have taken more than 30% of the cap (and most of that being andre).

people ask why we cant develop wide receivers ... name one we've drafted before the 6th round (not counting this year).

[Hookem Horns]

This isn't rocket science.

Kubiak is an excellent offensive coordinator who has proven in the past to be a mediocre head coach. His record before Wade proves that point.

You bring in Wade who is an excellent defensive mind and that in itself is going to bring in some more wins putting an average team above average (as we saw last season).

Wade is also bringing in another element that has changed the culture of the team. Maybe that element is JJ Watt. Maybe it's the fact that the defense is very confident now and the defense just sets the tone of the entire team.

To me this is an interesting experiment. Can a team win with 2 of the game's best coordinators but without a solid HC be successful? Right now they are 5-0 so you can say yes.

However when you get into the playoffs and are pushing toward a Super Bowl, that's when you need a solid HC IMO. A guy who can get the team mentally prepared and also make some clutch decisions during games.

Not a guy who is going to start choking when the game is on the line and start playing not to lose.

Wade has definitely bought Kubiak some more time to learn how to be a good HC. I hope he does become a good HC. Actually until Monday night I was thinking he finally turned the corner, now I am not so sure.

The obvious best case scenario for the Texans is not to be in close games. The close games is where Kubiak starts showing his shortcomings as a HC.

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by Hookem Horns

Kubiak is an excellent offensive coordinator who has proven in the past to be a mediocre head coach. His record before Wade proves that point.

for grins, assume in any of the past 4 seasons we had a top 15 defense. not some great defense, anything in the top half of the league would qualify. considering the assets given to the defense that shouldnt have been a problem. how many playoff appearances would kubiak have? in 2009 (our first winning season) we had the 17th ranked scoring defense - highest since '04. i understand the blame falls squarely on kubiak for the coaches he hired which kept that from happening, but the tune would be a whole lot different had he brought in a legitimate coordinator earlier.

we get a legitimate coordinator and kubiak is 16-7. that looks to me as more than mediocre, considering the consensus is we have the most complete team in football - after dropping 2 all pro defensive players, 2 offensive linemen, and a handful of role players in the past two seasons.

Originally Posted by Hookem Horns

However when you get into the playoffs and are pushing toward a Super Bowl, that's when you need a solid HC IMO. A guy who can get the team mentally prepared and also make some clutch decisions during games.

according to shanahan, kubiak took over play calling leading to both broncos superbowl wins. i think his rings speak for kubiak's ability to make decisions on the biggest stage. and let's not forget last season, kubiak got a team with a hobbled receiver and 5th string rookie to go toe to toe with a great team on their turf - the team WILL play for kubiak.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by dream_team

Honest question here... but where did you hear Wade had to be forced onto Gary? I have only heard of this around this board. I have never heard a credible source say this. Just wondering who, outside of these message boards, have said this.

Nowhere. It is pure MB speculation. Folks who wanted Kubiak fired have developed their own mythology system for how Wade got hired minimizing any role Kubiak may have had. Truth is we don't know.

[Thorn]

The Texans would not be the team they are today without Wade Phillips. Period. So, does that mean Kubiak can't coach or does that mean Kubiak knows how to bring in talent? Before Wade, this team was a frigging mess, after Wade it's a contender. Do I want Wade as head coach? Nope.

Kubiak has yet to show he can do the job without serious help on the coaching staff, and that honestly doesn't make him a whole lot different than a lot of other head coaches. My main deal with Kubiak is his past record of hiring defensive coaches before Wade got here. Believe me, without Wade, Kubiak and the Texans are right back into being a frigging mess.

[Maddict5]

Originally Posted by Hookem Horns

This isn't rocket science.

Kubiak is an excellent offensive coordinator who has proven in the past to be a mediocre head coach. His record before Wade proves that point.

You bring in Wade who is an excellent defensive mind and that in itself is going to bring in some more wins putting an average team above average (as we saw last season).

Wade is also bringing in another element that has changed the culture of the team. Maybe that element is JJ Watt. Maybe it's the fact that the defense is very confident now and the defense just sets the tone of the entire team.

To me this is an interesting experiment. Can a team win with 2 of the game's best coordinators but without a solid HC be successful? Right now they are 5-0 so you can say yes.

However when you get into the playoffs and are pushing toward a Super Bowl, that's when you need a solid HC IMO. A guy who can get the team mentally prepared and also make some clutch decisions during games.

Not a guy who is going to start choking when the game is on the line and start playing not to lose.

Wade has definitely bought Kubiak some more time to learn how to be a good HC. I hope he does become a good HC. Actually until Monday night I was thinking he finally turned the corner, now I am not so sure.

The obvious best case scenario for the Texans is not to be in close games. The close games is where Kubiak starts showing his shortcomings as a HC.

what makes a solid head coach? last time i checked, the players all respect kubiak alot as evidenced by them ALWAYS playing hard even when the season was gone down the ****ter.

a team without a solid HC doesnt perform like the texans did last yr with a rookie qb.

btw im loving that, because kubiak is smart enough to know he can win playing bland against the jets in week 5 when the team is 4-0, it makes him a bad playcaller etc... everybody questioning stuff like that is playing checkers, he's playing chess. when it comes to games that matter in the playoffs etc, we wont play so bland.. and the other team wont have those plays on tape either

ive said it all along- kubiak is a great HC & OC. he needs a good D co-ordinator and talent on D (something he allows by always giving the D high picks etc- another reason hes so good btw). glad to see him finally get his deserved rewards the last 2 years. many more to come.....

[Hookem Horns]

Originally Posted by Scooter

for grins, assume in any of the past 4 seasons we had a top 15 defense. not some great defense, anything in the top half of the league would qualify. considering the assets given to the defense that shouldnt have been a problem. how many playoff appearances would kubiak have? in 2009 (our first winning season) we had the 17th ranked scoring defense - highest since '04. i understand the blame falls squarely on kubiak for the coaches he hired which kept that from happening, but the tune would be a whole lot different had he brought in a legitimate coordinator earlier.

we get a legitimate coordinator and kubiak is 16-7. that looks to me as more than mediocre, considering the consensus is we have the most complete team in football - after dropping 2 all pro defensive players, 2 offensive linemen, and a handful of role players in the past two seasons.



according to shanahan, kubiak took over play calling leading to both broncos superbowl wins. i think his rings speak for kubiak's ability to make decisions on the biggest stage. and let's not forget last season, kubiak got a team with a hobbled receiver and 5th string rookie to go toe to toe with a great team on their turf - the team WILL play for kubiak.

Honestly Scooter, this is how I feel. I am not sold on him as a HC. I agree with everything Thorn just said in the above post. However I don't want to get in a big debate about it because honestly I want to be wrong and I want you to be right. I like the guy as a person and want him to succeed.

Also the team is 5-0 right now so I am going to just let it go for now, hope I am wrong and continue to enjoy the season.

[Trail.Blazr]

Originally Posted by 2slik4u

If he passed the ball on 3rd and short instead of running the ball regularly, we would be calling for his head.

Please dont forget that we have the best run blocking scheme in the NFL. The best run blocking line in the NFL...and oh yeah, the best RB in the NFL.

Why the hell would we not run???

You mean, like when the team is on the 9 yd line with 14 sec's and a time out to finish off the first half of the Jets game?

I used to fly the pink soap. I've given up. If he wasn't fired by 2010, it certainly isn't going to happen. Now with a play off berth followed by a 5-0 start, I've conceded that Kubiak's job is secure for practical eternity.

Which ever side of the fence you reside, most comment regarding Kubiak here have varying elements of truth. With my acceptance of him as the HC for years to come, I would summarize him as a loyal(which is good and bad), players coach, who has been learning to be a head coach, as a result of being a great O-Coordinator/Local Houston native.

I do Like Gary Kubiak, the person and actually like his coaching style and his potential for greatness. However, I felt that it was obvious, early on that he doesn't have "it" yet and we've all had to endure the growing pains that come with that. I, personally would have had a "first time coach" on a short leash. McNair didn't. Kudo's to Kubiak. For all the pain and suffering experienced as a fan for the past 10 years(not that Kubiak is responsible for it all), ATM, I'm glad to be silenced by a playoff loss and a 5-0 start(smoke n mirrors or not). I hope to see Gary Kubiak continue to blossom into a Hall of Fame caliber coach. The reality is, that's the only place I can hang my hat. He's here to stay.

[Texan_Bill]

Originally Posted by IlliniJen

I sometimes wonder if Kubiak isn't a much better designer of plays than he is a caller of plays.

I like Kubiak, but I think there is a lot of truth to this ^^^^^^^^^

[Double Barrel]

Evolution, folks. Not the evolution of primordial soup to humans, but the evolution of an offensive coordinator taking over a craptastic 2-14 team and having to learn how to be a head coach.

McNair could have listened to fans in 2010 and let Kubiak go. He would have been picked up by another team and used his 5 seasons with the Texans as a learning experience. Then when he took his new team to the playoffs, everyone would be dogging McNair for being just another knee-jerk owner.

I'm not a blind homer for Kubiak by any stretch. Some of his play-calling drives me crazy during games, especially that conservative play-not-to-lose mentality when we have a lead. And he's not above criticism. Just about every coach in the league with few exceptions is subject to it. I have no problem analyzing him as a head coach, as long as it's objective.

However, my perspective is also evolving. Kubiak is no longer a failure. He took a a team riddled with key injuries to the playoffs and won. I know everyone wants to credit Wade, who does deserve much respect, but you also have to appreciate a head coach that is willing to admit his mistakes and hire someone that could easily take his job. Head coaches have huge egos, and that Kubiak was able to check his to better the team should be recognized as a positive, no matter how the Texans hired Wade.

I know the hard feelings and abysmal past is always there, but at some point we've got to let it go and just enjoy the ride of success while we can. There's no guarantee for tomorrow.

We are 5-0 right now for the first time in HOUSTON FOOTBALL HISTORY. Not even the previous NFL team ever gave us that kind of season start in 4 decades. And while there is still a lot of football left to be played before we can mark this season a success, I think we are doing ourselves a disservice to dwell on the negatives of the past instead of just enjoying the positives of the present.

[Insideop]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

Evolution, folks. Not the evolution of primordial soup to humans, but the evolution of an offensive coordinator taking over a craptastic 2-14 team and having to learn how to be a head coach.

McNair could have listened to fans in 2010 and let Kubiak go. He would have been picked up by another team and used his 5 seasons with the Texans as a learning experience. Then when he took his new team to the playoffs, everyone would be dogging McNair for being just another knee-jerk owner.

I'm not a blind homer for Kubiak by any stretch. Some of his play-calling drives me crazy during games, especially that conservative play-not-to-lose mentality when we have a lead. And he's not above criticism. Just about every coach in the league with few exceptions is subject to it. I have no problem analyzing him as a head coach, as long as it's objective.

However, my perspective is also evolving. Kubiak is no longer a failure. He took a a team riddled with key injuries to the playoffs and won. I know everyone wants to credit Wade, who does deserve much respect, but you also have to appreciate a head coach that is willing to admit his mistakes and hire someone that could easily take his job. Head coaches have huge egos, and that Kubiak was able to check his to better the team should be recognized as a positive, no matter how the Texans hired Wade.

I know the hard feelings and abysmal past is always there, but at some point we've got to let it go and just enjoy the ride of success while we can. There's no guarantee for tomorrow.

We are 5-0 right now for the first time in HOUSTON FOOTBALL HISTORY. Not even the previous NFL team ever gave us that kind of season start in 4 decades. And while there is still a lot of football left to be played before we can mark this season a success, I think we are doing ourselves a disservice to dwell on the negatives of the past instead of just enjoying the positives of the present.

Well said DB, well said.

[House of Pain]

Originally Posted by BlackFizz

As a die hard Texans fan, i'm starting to get a bit confused. For years all i heard from Texan fans is that Kubes is inept. Most fans and local media called for his job after the 2010 season. I heard that he coaches not to lose. I heard that he is in over his head in big games, he cant call plays in the red zone, he has never utilized AJ in the red zone properly (lack of fade routes inside the 15 or ten against one on ones) ect.

This year i'm hearing that now he is the best play caller in the league. An offensive guru, the most creative play caller in all of football. He has all his weapons at his disposal now, so now the league will finally see what true offensive genius looks like.

I admit the 3rd down runs and draws do concern me. The first drive of the game was a thing of beauty. But we only kicked 3 field goals for the most part of three quarters.

So is he the creative offensive genius we see from time to time, or the Kubes who most wanted run out of town just just a season andd a half ago??

Did Wade Phillips truly save and inept Kubiak's job?

Or is Kubiak an offensive genius, who just needed little help on defense?

Can someone help me figure out just who in the hell Kubiak really is??!!

Gary? Is that you?

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

Evolution, folks. Not the evolution of primordial soup to humans, but the evolution of an offensive coordinator taking over a craptastic 2-14 team and having to learn how to be a head coach.

McNair could have listened to fans in 2010 and let Kubiak go. He would have been picked up by another team and used his 5 seasons with the Texans as a learning experience. Then when he took his new team to the playoffs, everyone would be dogging McNair for being just another knee-jerk owner.

I'm not a blind homer for Kubiak by any stretch. Some of his play-calling drives me crazy during games, especially that conservative play-not-to-lose mentality when we have a lead. And he's not above criticism. Just about every coach in the league with few exceptions is subject to it. I have no problem analyzing him as a head coach, as long as it's objective.

However, my perspective is also evolving. Kubiak is no longer a failure. He took a a team riddled with key injuries to the playoffs and won. I know everyone wants to credit Wade, who does deserve much respect, but you also have to appreciate a head coach that is willing to admit his mistakes and hire someone that could easily take his job. Head coaches have huge egos, and that Kubiak was able to check his to better the team should be recognized as a positive, no matter how the Texans hired Wade.

I know the hard feelings and abysmal past is always there, but at some point we've got to let it go and just enjoy the ride of success while we can. There's no guarantee for tomorrow.

We are 5-0 right now for the first time in HOUSTON FOOTBALL HISTORY. Not even the previous NFL team ever gave us that kind of season start in 4 decades. And while there is still a lot of football left to be played before we can mark this season a success, I think we are doing ourselves a disservice to dwell on the negatives of the past instead of just enjoying the positives of the present.

I'm going to piggy-back on your theme here... I would compare the "evolution" of Kubiak to that of Duane Brown, Kareem Jackson, or (and?) Chris Myers. When those guys first arrived some were skeptical because they wanted someone else with the picks we used to obtain these guys. Others said let's wait and see. And at some point - many points - during their initial time here they were less than stellar. Okay, at times they flat out sucked. But they kept grinding away, learning on the job, screwing up as they did so. But they kept working at it and now they all are valued members of our team - some playing at pro bowl level.

Same with Kubiak. It was painful at times to watch him learn the diff between just being responsible for the next play as an O.C. and being responsible for EVERYTHING as H.C. His early missteps and fails gave me heartburn too and I'm a charter member of the Sunshine club. Now I ain't trying to say that Kubiak has become whatever passes for "pro-bowl" in coaching but he - AND Wade - have got the team playing at a high level.

And laugh if you wanna I don't care, but I don't know if I could have taken having to import some dang Yankee (Gruden, Cowher, Billick, whoever) come in an "save" our Texas team.

[Marcus]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

Evolution, folks. Not the evolution of primordial soup to humans, but the evolution of an offensive coordinator taking over a craptastic 2-14 team and having to learn how to be a head coach.

McNair could have listened to fans in 2010 and let Kubiak go. He would have been picked up by another team and used his 5 seasons with the Texans as a learning experience. Then when he took his new team to the playoffs, everyone would be dogging McNair for being just another knee-jerk owner.

I'm not a blind homer for Kubiak by any stretch. Some of his play-calling drives me crazy during games, especially that conservative play-not-to-lose mentality when we have a lead. And he's not above criticism. Just about every coach in the league with few exceptions is subject to it. I have no problem analyzing him as a head coach, as long as it's objective.

However, my perspective is also evolving. Kubiak is no longer a failure. He took a a team riddled with key injuries to the playoffs and won. I know everyone wants to credit Wade, who does deserve much respect, but you also have to appreciate a head coach that is willing to admit his mistakes and hire someone that could easily take his job. Head coaches have huge egos, and that Kubiak was able to check his to better the team should be recognized as a positive, no matter how the Texans hired Wade.

I know the hard feelings and abysmal past is always there, but at some point we've got to let it go and just enjoy the ride of success while we can. There's no guarantee for tomorrow.

We are 5-0 right now for the first time in HOUSTON FOOTBALL HISTORY. Not even the previous NFL team ever gave us that kind of season start in 4 decades. And while there is still a lot of football left to be played before we can mark this season a success, I think we are doing ourselves a disservice to dwell on the negatives of the past instead of just enjoying the positives of the present.

Good post, DB. MSR

Regarding your last sentence in bold, you're exactly right. Unfortunately, and sadly, I have absolutely ZERO faith it will happen. Just way too much lingering resentment.

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by Marcus

Good post, DB. MSR

Regarding your last sentence in bold, you're exactly right. Unfortunately, and sadly, I have absolutely ZERO faith it will happen. Just way too much lingering resentment.

Actually you are one of the biggest ones in here that dwells on the past. I could be rich if I could count how many times I've heard you either predict that members of this board will bash Gary relentlessly the minute the team loses or constantly whining about the criticisms that Kubiak has received in past seasons even when things are going great. I haven't seen any Kubiak bashing this season. Why is that? The team is winning and other then a few questionable calls and philosophical differences, most fans across the board have been pretty pleased.

This very thread got started because some random new fan asked who the real Kubiak is and mentioned differing opinions he has heard. What did you think would be discussed after the OP asked the question? Isn't it somewhat rhetorical that the answers and discussion would involve both the present day success and the historical downfalls? If you don't want to hear about the negative history that has been existent here, then why go out of your way to bring it up so much? That's dwelling on the negatives and it's also a strong part of your own resentment. Not just you, but a few others as well. Sometimes people seem to completely forget that this is a message board and debating these topics is the purpose for this place along with hanging out with other fans online any way.

[drs23]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

I'm going to piggy-back on your theme here... I would compare the "evolution" of Kubiak to that of Duane Brown, Kareem Jackson, or (and?) Chris Myers. When those guys first arrived some were skeptical because they wanted someone else with the picks we used to obtain these guys. Others said let's wait and see. And at some point - many points - during their initial time here they were less than stellar. Okay, at times they flat out sucked. But they kept grinding away, learning on the job, screwing up as they did so. But they kept working at it and now they all are valued members of our team - some playing at pro bowl level.

Same with Kubiak. It was painful at times to watch him learn the diff between just being responsible for the next play as an O.C. and being responsible for EVERYTHING as H.C. His early missteps and fails gave me heartburn too and I'm a charter member of the Sunshine club. Now I ain't Kubiak is whatever passes for pro-bowl in coaching but he - AND Wade - have got the team playing at a high level.

And laugh if you wanna I don't care, but I don't know if I could have taken having to import some dang Yankee (Gruden, Cowher, Billick, whoever) come in an "save" our Texas team.

Well said men. (it's (men) since you piggybacked) This is directed at both of you guys. I would have articulated DB's post long ago had I been able to do as well as he did. Same goes for you Obis.

And MSR for both of ya's. Oh well, will catch it when I can.

Great post from both of you guys. Thanks.

[Surreal McCoy]

Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro

Just look at his record as a head coach, should tell you what you need to know.

Ahh, so we'll finish 8-8.

[GlassHalfFull]

DB and Obsiwan did a great job of articulating how I have been feeling. For the most part I try and stay out of these threads, but have felt that I need to go on record for Kubiak.

I have hoped since he was hired that he could develop into a long term coach for us. It has been painful to watch at times, but he has been slowly (yes, way too slowly for some) building a quality organization from bottom to top.

Watching and reading these thread over the years has been an education in human nature. There are the posters who have to beat a point to death and beat up on others who disagree. There are the posters who hold a grudge, those who are impatient or quick to jump to conclusions.

My answer to the question is that Kubiak is an experienced professional who has spent all his adult life involved with various aspects of the game. As much as we would like, none of us fans knows who Kubiak really is. He appears to be a private person, based on the lack of buzz about him. He appears to like to keep things close to his vest. But, most importantly, he is the head coach of the Houston Texans and as such I wish him all the success possible.

His players are behind him and I am too

[b0ng]

I feel as though the point I made earlier was only enforced by the posts made after it.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by dream_team

And how many games each year do the Texans win because of his conservative nature?

Less than 50% before Wade.