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Old 10-09-2012   #21
Double Barrel
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Default Re: Who is the real Gary Kubiak??

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
I know that Kubiak has a ton of national media respect, but locally, too much bitter resentment that McNair wouldn't do what the local hardcore fans wanted him to do.

The fact the team is now winning under Kubiak, is not erasing that resentment. As long as there's a zero on the right side of the dash, people will do their level best to hide that resentment.

But, wait until they lose a game, for whatever reason.
I think this is certainly true with some folks. Must be the stubborn ones.

But, I know many of us have reversed our attitudes about Kubiak since 2010. Speaking for myself, I am completely in his corner now and see McNair's big picture. I was just a frustrated fan before, and Kubiak was the target as the HC. But, winning cures many ills, including my own 'sick of it all' attitude from several years ago. I am more than happy to eat some crow about this one.
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Old 10-09-2012   #22
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Default Re: Who is the real Gary Kubiak??

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
I do admit to listening to Houston sports radio more than is probably healthy, but I get a distinct feeling that the average Texans fan think Kubiak is a garbage coach who was saved by Wade Phillips and his mysterious 3-4 defense.

I mean, I love me some Wade, and I love what he's done with the defense; there are some people in this city who take it entirely too far and want to give Phillips credit for any and everything that was minutely positive for the Texans in 2011. That's not just GP, thats reading comments, listening to radio and even taking in some of our beloved journalism in this great city.
There is a pretty strong argument towards that considering his history here. You can't just erase that because the Texans are undefeated now with a lights out defense. The fact is this team wasn't consistent or successful record wise until Wade came here and changed the defense over night. He did it in one season. Hell, the offense was horrible last season after Schaub went down and the D carried this team into the playoffs despite a lousy offense. This season the offense is looking pretty "meh" to me. We've got a good running game with our trio, but most of our points are coming from the defense getting good field position and turnovers if you think about it. Gary Kubiak had 5 really bad seasons. That 9-7 season was arguably his worst season in my eyes considering how we lost a few of those games which came from coaching mistakes. Now we're looking at two back to back strong seasons since Wade has been brought here. That theory definitely has some relevance to it, whether you want to acknowledge it or not. You don't have to and we can agree to disagree which is fine. I don't see a ton of people trying to bash Kubiak right now though. If he is making tons of coaching mistakes like he has in the past though, then he'll get criticized accordingly.

Personally Gary is just another Jason Garrett type of HC to me though honestly. Wade Phillips had some pretty good success with Garrett as well when Wade was the coach there and Garrett ran the offense. It's really not that different of a combination. Wade ran the D as the HC and Garrett ran the offense as the OC very similar to how Kubes runs the offense as the HC and Wade runs the defense as the DC, but in the end the HC typically gets all the glory when they're winning and all the critique when they're losing.
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Old 10-09-2012   #23
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Default Re: Who is the real Gary Kubiak??

So nice to see Vinny and b0ng sporting elitist attitudes...labeling and pegging people into their imaginary "fandom" slots of hierarchy. LMAO.

Keep up the good work, guys. Texans Nation needs your efforts.

Seriously, just for a second, stop patting yourselves on the back and just accept the fact that more than just "GP" feel this way. I don't see Kaiser Toro, a MUCH learned Texans fan stepping out here and saying what you two guys are saying.

IlliniJen? Another reputable member who doesn't exactly gel with the Kubiak Klub's statements and beliefs.

DoubleBarrel? Yeah, another guy who gets frustrated from time to time with Gary Kubiak.

Hervoyel? My oh my, another of those pesky no-nothing Texans fan who thinks Kubiak's worst enemy is Kubiak.

And that's just for starters. So this whole bull**** act of you two, it's sad. Just stop already. Don't sit there and call out members by name, loading up on them when they're not around. It's tacky.
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Old 10-09-2012   #24
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Default Re: Who is the real Gary Kubiak??

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
There is a pretty strong argument towards that considering his history here. You can't just erase that because the Texans are undefeated now with a lights out defense. The fact is this team wasn't consistent or successful record wise until Wade came here and changed the defense over night. He did it in one season. Hell, the offense was horrible last season after Schaub went down and the D carried this team into the playoffs despite a lousy offense. This season the offense is looking pretty "meh" to me. We've got a good running game with our trio, but most of our points are coming from the defense getting good field position and turnovers if you think about it. Gary Kubiak had 5 really bad seasons. That 9-7 season was arguably his worst season in my eyes considering how we lost a few of those games which came from coaching mistakes. Now we're looking at two back to back strong seasons since Wade has been brought here. That theory definitely has some relevance to it, whether you want to acknowledge it or not. You don't have to and we can agree to disagree which is fine. I don't see a ton of people trying to bash Kubiak right now though. If he is making tons of coaching mistakes like he has in the past though, then he'll get criticized accordingly.

Personally Gary is just another Jason Garrett type of HC to me though honestly. Wade Phillips had some pretty good success with Garrett as well when Wade was the coach there and Garrett ran the defense. It's really not that different of a combination.
And yet another I could have listed. Tex, didn't you hear? You are in a minority around here. You know very little, you just ***** a lot.

According to some...
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Old 10-09-2012   #25
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Default Re: Who is the real Gary Kubiak??

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Originally Posted by IlliniJen View Post
I sometimes wonder if Kubiak isn't a much better designer of plays than he is a caller of plays.
Been of that opinion for YEARS now.

He is a builder of great offense, but he has tendencies on game day that are as easy to read as a coloring book.
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Old 10-09-2012   #26
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Default Re: Who is the real Gary Kubiak??

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I think Kubiak is a great offensive coordinator. I think he is a very good head coach. But I think he is a terrible defensive coach.

I don't think Kubiak is terrible and Wade saved his job; he just never had a decent defensive coordinator and Kubiak is a bit deficient on the defensive side of the ball.

What I like the most about Kubiak is the guy is a true player's coach. He never bad mouths players to the media, but he will let them have it behind closed doors. He will call guys out for not doing their job but when it comes to addressing the media, "It's all on me" is his reply. I hated this for the longest time because I thought that was why we were a bad team. But we now see we were a bad team because we had piss poor defensive coordinators that did not utilize the talent on this team, plus we had a rookie GM that was learning on the job as well.

So who is the real Kubiak? That answer is twofold. Gary Kubiak + a crap defensive coordinator is a bad head coach. Gary Kubiak + a good to great defensive coordinator is a good to potentially great head coach.
As HC Gary is and was directly responsible for those bad DC hires in the past. Many people questioned the hiring of Frank Bush after Smith had done such an atomic poor job. Gary continued to hire his buddies who weren't ready for the job and it did in fact hurt the team a lot. The general consensus was that Mcnair forced Wade Phillips on him for one last shot which was his 3rd DC to hire. Those mistakes were on Kubiak.
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Old 10-09-2012   #27
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Default Re: Who is the real Gary Kubiak??

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
And yet another I could have listed. Tex, didn't you hear? You are in a minority around here. You know very little, you just ***** a lot.

According to some...
Well it's funny because it wasn't long ago at all that some of the people that act like he is a great coach now were blasting the hell out of the guy not that long ago. Now it's as if none of it ever happened. I'm pretty sure a lot of those people will go right back to bashing the guy for the same stuff if the Texans go back to being average or embarrassing. I have not changed my thoughts on Kubiak at all. He is who he is. He had a great DC forced on him, and got the luxury of having a top 5 defense in the league. A defense like that can change a lot of teams even if the offense is horrible in many cases. Ask the Ravens and the Titans from a few years ago. The success of this team is definitely not all on the defense or anything, but the defense is what is dominating right now. Either way I'll take it. Gary is most likely going to be around here for as long as he wants to be around here. Mcnair thinks of him like a son, so whether you think he is a great HC or not, we're all going to have to learn to live with him.
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Old 10-09-2012   #28
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Default Re: Who is the real Gary Kubiak??

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
So nice to see Vinny and b0ng sporting elitist attitudes...labeling and pegging people into their imaginary "fandom" slots of hierarchy. LMAO.

Keep up the good work, guys. Texans Nation needs your efforts.

Seriously, just for a second, stop patting yourselves on the back and just accept the fact that more than just "GP" feel this way. I don't see Kaiser Toro, a MUCH learned Texans fan stepping out here and saying what you two guys are saying.

IlliniJen? Another reputable member who doesn't exactly gel with the Kubiak Klub's statements and beliefs.

DoubleBarrel? Yeah, another guy who gets frustrated from time to time with Gary Kubiak.

Hervoyel? My oh my, another of those pesky no-nothing Texans fan who thinks Kubiak's worst enemy is Kubiak.

And that's just for starters. So this whole bull**** act of you two, it's sad. Just stop already. Don't sit there and call out members by name, loading up on them when they're not around. It's tacky.
I knew this thread had no chance of being completely civil.
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Old 10-09-2012   #29
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Default Re: Who is the real Gary Kubiak??

Gary is an avg HC who's conserxative nature costs his team a couple of games each yr. He should thank BoB everday that BoB didn't fire him and that BoB had the good sense to hire Wade.

Without Wade, Gary = Fail. Atleast that's what Garys record says pre-Wade.
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Old 10-09-2012   #30
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Default Re: Who is the real Gary Kubiak??

Gary is an avg HC who's conserxative nature costs his team a couple of games each yr. He should thank BoB everyday that BoB didn't fire him and that BoB had the good sense to hire Wade.

Without Wade, Gary = Fail. Atleast that's what Garys record says pre-Wade.
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Old 10-09-2012   #31
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Default Re: Who is the real Gary Kubiak??

I think Kubiak is a good coach overall who has games where his playcalling and time/game-management is not up-to-snuff.

Last night was one of those. Luckily we won anyway.
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Old 10-09-2012   #32
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Default Re: Who is the real Gary Kubiak??

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Been of that opinion for YEARS now.

He is a builder of great offense, but he has tendencies on game day that are as easy to read as a coloring book.
Or a completely incomprehensible play when a much higher success percentage play is out there to be had.

And how many years did we wait for a fade to the corner of the end zone to Dre? 5?

I'm not saying he's a horrible coach, but I do think his weaknesses are covered by talent on offense and Wade on defense. His record as a HC don't indicate that he's be terribly successful anywhere else without a good mix of talent and coaching like he now has here.

I think the Texans are a 'perfect storm' for Kubiak right now, save for a lacking a bit at WR and a lot on special teams. I think he does specific things exceptionally well. The play action pass is a perfect example. It may be the best in the league. The ZBS is another example that's being tested a bit this year with less talent/experience on the O line.

I can't completely drink the Kubes Kool Aid because I've been a fan since the team's inception and I've seen the struggles the team has had under Kubiak's early years. There's a little lipstick on the pig going on here. That's not to discount Kubes completely, but I don't think he suddenly became a great coach overnight. That defense going from worst to almost first is pretty phenomenal. That can't be overlooked.

We'll see when there's a more varied body of work to judge from. We have a relatively small sample size with Kube's resume right now as a HC.
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Old 10-09-2012   #33
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Default Re: Who is the real Gary Kubiak??

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IDK...but I do think that he is too predictable in short yardage situiations. It's one thing if your getting results but we've been stuffed too many times already for my liking running to our left side.
If he passed the ball on 3rd and short instead of running the ball regularly, we would be calling for his head.

Please dont forget that we have the best run blocking scheme in the NFL. The best run blocking line in the NFL...and oh yeah, the best RB in the NFL.

Why the hell would we not run???
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Old 10-09-2012   #34
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Default Re: Who is the real Gary Kubiak??

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Old 10-09-2012   #35
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Default Re: Who is the real Gary Kubiak??

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
Kubiak has had the "luxury" of an owner who has an old school mentality. McNair admires the great teams of the past that stood by a head coach while he went threw growing pains and learning curves. Most NFL owners would have fired Kubiak after his fifth season and the 6-10 record. Heck, many Texans fans felt the same way.

But McNair took his lumps and never lost faith in Kubiak. That loyalty, along with maybe the greatest coaching hire of this franchise *cough*Wade*cough*, have paid off nicely so far.

Kubiak has undoubtedly been a great offensive coordinator. Nobody will take that from him. But as a HC, there is some black marks, chiefly hiring two defensive coordinators that gave us historically bad defenses and lost games for us.

I think the final say about Kubiak the head coach is a while off in the distant future. Hopefully, of course, it's a book with a happy ending. But right now, it's too early to say if he's closer to Marvin Lewis or eventually the next "Tom Landry". Time will tell.
I know one coach whose record Kubiak is really close to.

Bum Phillips, Houston beloved legend is at .516 (82-77).
Gary Kubiak is currently at .515 (52-49).
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Old 10-09-2012   #36
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Default Re: Who is the real Gary Kubiak??

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I know that Kubiak has a ton of national media respect, but locally, too much bitter resentment that McNair wouldn't do what the local hardcore fans wanted him to do.

The fact the team is now winning under Kubiak, is not erasing that resentment. As long as there's a zero on the right side of the dash, people will do their level best to hide that resentment.

But, wait until they lose a game, for whatever reason.
This is exactly right.
There was bitching about Kubiak running out the clock in the 4th qtr with the lead to preserve the win last night.

And to answer the "why does he always run in 3rd/4th & short situations, Kubiak has always believed that if we're going NOT going to be a "soft" or "finesse" team then we need to be tough enough to man up and get that one yard when they know we're coming; he believes the "great" teams can do that. They can succeed when the defense knows what they're going to do but can't stop it. That's the mentality - expect success - he expects from his offense.
I like it, but that's just me ...it's the kind of football Cowher would play
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Old 10-10-2012   #37
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Default Re: Who is the real Gary Kubiak??

BlackFizz, you have just reopened a big can of worms and a real sore spot for some around here. If Kubes won 6 Super Bowls, with and/or without Wade, there would still be some on this MB that think he is a bad HC and should be run out of town. He will never be a good or great HC in their eyes. Not to make Kubes out to be a prophet or anything but it's like the old Biblical quote about a prophet in his own land... I've often wondered if this has anything to do with some Texan fan's college affiliation or loyalty (ie, Kubiak is a "dumb Aggie" and could never be a good coach). Would make for an interesting poll!

My thinking is more along with what Vinny, DB, 76, and others are thinking. Kubes has grown into his position along with Rick and even, to some extent, Bob, and they are getting better and better every year at what they do. It hasn't happened as fast as most would like, but we're here now, so enjoy the wins!
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Old 10-10-2012   #38
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As HC Gary is and was directly responsible for those bad DC hires in the past. Many people questioned the hiring of Frank Bush after Smith had done such an atomic poor job. Gary continued to hire his buddies who weren't ready for the job and it did in fact hurt the team a lot. The general consensus was that Mcnair forced Wade Phillips on him for one last shot which was his 3rd DC to hire. Those mistakes were on Kubiak.
Honest question here... but where did you hear Wade had to be forced onto Gary? I have only heard of this around this board. I have never heard a credible source say this. Just wondering who, outside of these message boards, have said this.
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Old 10-10-2012   #39
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I'm not saying he's a horrible coach, but I do think his weaknesses are covered by talent on offense and Wade on defense. His record as a HC don't indicate that he's be terribly successful anywhere else without a good mix of talent and coaching like he now has here.
Why doesn't Kubiak get any credit for developing that talent on offense? Keep in mind, AJ is the only high draft pick on offense. Duane Brown was a low first rounder that all the experts thought we reached for. Chris Myers was a 6th rounder. Schaub was a 3rd, Owen 4th, and we all know where Foster was drafted. I always thought this offense was amazing, considering we didn't need multiple high picks to build it.
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Old 10-10-2012   #40
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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Gary is an avg HC who's conserxative nature costs his team a couple of games each yr. He should thank BoB everyday that BoB didn't fire him and that BoB had the good sense to hire Wade.

Without Wade, Gary = Fail. Atleast that's what Garys record says pre-Wade.
And how many games each year do the Texans win because of his conservative nature?
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