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Old 10-10-2012   #101
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Default Re: Our new look ILB position moving forward.

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Originally Posted by powda View Post
Last lines about you stating the obvious. Difference between you and I is that I form my own opinions rather then accepting things at face value. Losing cushing will not help this team right now. You can be an optomist or a pessimist however you like but if you dont understand that it may be in your best interest to watch tennis.
The only obvious thing about that last line was that it was sarcasm.
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Old 10-10-2012   #102
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Default Re: Our new look ILB position moving forward.

powda v. b0ng

Go!

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Old 10-10-2012   #103
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Default Re: Our new look ILB position moving forward.

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
The only obvious thing about that last line was that it was sarcasm.
I think its a chickensh*t stance to question somone's passion as a fan because they dont share the same optimism you do. We did just lose one of the best players on the team. It was already my opinion that our defense was more susceptible then the stats reveal. If you argued rudd's great or the loss can be minimized with scheme that would have reasonable merit, though i'd disagree. Instead, you think cushing done for the year is no big deal because all teams have flaws. Thanks for the wisdom but thats not going to help stop any offense on the field.
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Old 10-10-2012   #104
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Default Re: Our new look ILB position moving forward.

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I think its a chickensh*t stance to question somone's passion as a fan because they dont share the same optimism you do. We did just lose one of the best players on the team. It was already my opinion that our defense was more susceptible then the stats reveal. If you argued rudd's great or the loss can be minimized with scheme that would have reasonable merit, though i'd disagree. Instead, you think cushing done for the year is no big deal because all teams have flaws. Thanks for the wisdom but thats not going to help stop any offense on the field.
Nobody has questioned your fanhood besides yourself.
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Old 10-10-2012   #105
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Default Re: Our new look ILB position moving forward.

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
powda v. b0ng

Go!

I dont really know how it turned into that. I'm not overlooking the loss of cushing and my rose colored glasses have been off since the mid casserly/capers years. We have a major injury and i think its fair to be skeptical going forward until at least sunday when we see some kind of on field solution. If that approach doesnt invollve enough rainbows and butterflies to keep some posters happy i dunno whatelse to say.
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Old 10-10-2012   #106
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Default Re: Our new look ILB position moving forward.

It certainly is something though when you can be prideful for never having "drunk the kool-aide" and always being skeptical.

Go you.
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Old 10-10-2012   #107
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Default Re: Our new look ILB position moving forward.

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
It certainly is something though when you can be prideful for never having "drunk the kool-aide" and always being skeptical.

Go you.
I think you overlooked the words cautiously optimistic. If you wanna wager your house in vegas on a Texans superbowl victory go right ahead. Your not going to get any sympathy from me if your homeless. Just dont ask me for handouts when im at the intersection next to your bridge lol.
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Old 10-10-2012   #108
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Default Re: Our new look ILB position moving forward.

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Originally Posted by powda View Post
Last lines about you stating the obvious. Difference between you and I is that I form my own opinions rather then accepting things at face value. Losing cushing will not help this team right now. You can be an optomist or a pessimist however you like but if you dont understand that it may be in your best interest to watch tennis.
Dobbins ain't Cush.... I agree with you whole heartedly. However, I just rewatched the second half today, paying close attention to Dobbins. Definitely a drop off in tenacity, but he played well. Better than I thought.

If, & that's a big if, Barwin would wake up or Reed kicks it into second gear, we may be ok.

if.


I'd still like to see Reed moved inside, Barwin back to the strong side & Mercilus live up to his first round status.
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Old 10-10-2012   #109
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Default Re: Our new look ILB position moving forward.

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Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post
I'd still like to see Reed moved inside, Barwin back to the strong side & Mercilus live up to his first round status.
Back on track. I'd like to see that as well. Seems like the sensible approach. I'd guess wade will give dobbins a chance before making that many changes however. Rudd was a good backer not long ago but the fact he was just cut by another team is alarming.
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Old 10-10-2012   #110
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Default Re: Our new look ILB position moving forward.

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Originally Posted by powda View Post
Back on track. I'd like to see that as well. Seems like the sensible approach. I'd guess wade will give dobbins a chance before making that many changes however. Rudd was a good backer not long ago but the fact he was just cut by another team is alarming.
I'm not Wade Phillips, but that's exactly what I would do. Dobbins & Ruud are journeymen, role players, they aren't play-makers or starters even.

Last year, we were talking about "next man up" but in each case, the next man was someone we drafted or brought in to eventually play a big part of our production on the field.

Brooks Reed was a second round pick as was Barwin, Tate

If Sharpton was coming back soon, I could see plugging him in. At least we drafted him, his potential is still unknown. But the chances of Dobbins & Rudd becoming come back player of the year... I'm not feeling it.
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Old 10-10-2012   #111
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Default Re: Our new look ILB position moving forward.

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If there is an ILB in 2013 that is worth it, I'd sell our draft for the guy. But he has to be THE guy who is the next big thing. No wiggle room, he has to be the business or I don't do it.

I'd then pretend Cushing will never play another down for us, and take the next new Cushing in the draft class and be done with it. Call it a draft for 2013. Wrap it up, pack up the laptops early and leave New York feeling like a million bucks. Then use free agency to fill gaps. Barwin is not a $$$ problem because he won't be brought back, which should help free up some cap space for FA.
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Old 10-11-2012   #112
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Default Re: Our new look ILB position moving forward.

The short term drop-off is against the pass over the middle and short routes outside the hash marks. Ideally you like one pass-rusher/run-stopper and one cover guy as your ILBs in your base 3-4 and nickel. This would have been Cushing and Sharpton, had Sharpton not been injured...James was signed as a short term replacement for Sharpton, familar with the system, a downhill player, but poor at coverage, so Cushing had to become the cover ILB. Sharpton, a converted 4-3 OLB is the best cover LB on the roster and will fill this role when he returns.
Texans' base 3-4:
Reed-Watt-Cody-Smith-Barwin/Cushing-James/JJ-KJ-Manning-Quin*edited, thanks Insideop.

Contrary to what you mave read elsewhere, this year the Texans have been using a 2-4-5 nickel* and a 2-3-6 dime. In the 2-4-5 nickel there are four linemen (two OLBs and two DEs), two ILBs (normally) and five DBs. In the nickel formation, like the base 3-4, ideally you want one pass-rusher/run-stopper ILB(Cushing) and one cover ILB (Sharpton). *In this package the Texans have been using SS Glover Quin in the role of cover ILB, who I believe would have been replaced in this package by Sharpton on his return from injury, so technically up to the Cushing injury there was no difference between the Texans' nickel and dime except that they moved Quin around.
Texans' nickel:
Reed-Watt-Smith-Barwin/Cushing-Quin*/JJ-KJ-McCain-Manning-Demps

In the Texans dime package there are four linemen (two OLBs and two DEs), one ILB and six DBs. Cushing has been the lone ILB in this package (I wonder if Sharpton would have taken this role at some point as Cushing is not really that good in coverage).
Texans' dime:
Reed-Watt-Smith-Barwin/Cushing/JJ-KJ-McCain-Manning-Quin-Demps

That was before Cushing and Demps were injured. In the base 3-4 they'll rotate Dobbins and Alexander alongside James. All of these guys play well downhill but basically suck in coverage so the defense is going to have a hard time with passes over the middle and short routes outside the hash marks on first downs. One option to help with this until Sharpton's return could be to sub Quin at ILB in the base package like they've been doing in the nickel. Now that Demps is out Nolan would come in at SS.
Texans' new base 3-4 before Sharpton returns:
Reed-Watt-Cody-Smith-Barwin/James-Dobbins(Quin?)/JJ-KJ-Manning-Quin(Nolan?)

In the nickel they've already been subbing a safety for the cover ILB so in this formation the biggest difference will be the loss of Cushing's pass-rush abilty over James. Again, now that Demps is out Nolan would come in at SS.
Texans' new nickel before Sharpton returns:
Reed-Watt-Smith-Barwin/James-Quin*/JJ-KJ-McCain-Manning-Nolan

Up to this point I believe I've been on firm ground...now I'm not as confident. I don't see really James as the sole ILB in the dime package.
Texans' dime before Sharpton returns:
Reed-Watt-Smith-Barwin/James(Quin?)/JJ-KJ-McCain-Manning-Nolan-Quin(Harris?Carmichael?) with Quin at ILB that would technically be a quarter package.

After Sharpton's return (maybe week 9-10):
Texans' base 3-4:
Reed-Watt-Cody-Smith-Barwin/James-Sharpton/JJ-KJ-Manning-Quin*edited, thanks Insideop.
Texans' nickel:
Reed-Watt-Smith-Barwin/James-Sharpton/JJ-KJ-McCain-Manning-Quin
Texans' dime:
Reed-Watt-Smith-Barwin/Sharpton/JJ-KJ-McCain-Manning-Quin-Nolan

I do think that they had plans to draft an ILB next year, but that they also wanted to see if Reed could learn to play inside, the same thing they've been doing with Cushing. The Texan's OLBs do have a fair amount of coverage responsibilities, often allowing other defenders to rush the passer inside, so I think this is a possibility of Reed being moved to ILB somewhere down the road. But then, the plan is probably to let Barwin walk next year, start Mercilus at OLB opposite Reed and draft to upgrade at ILB.
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Last edited by pec0sb0b; 10-11-2012 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 10-11-2012   #113
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Default Re: Our new look ILB position moving forward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pec0sb0b View Post
The short term drop-off is against the pass over the middle and short routes outside the hash marks. Ideally you like one pass-rusher/run-stopper and one cover guy as your ILBs in your base 3-4 and nickel. This would have been Cushing and Sharpton, had Sharpton not been injured...James was signed as a short term replacement for Sharpton, familar with the system, a downhill player, but poor at coverage, so Cushing had to become the cover ILB. Sharpton, a converted 4-3 OLB is the best cover LB on the roster and will fill this role when he returns.
Texans' base 3-4:
Reed-Watt-Cody-Smith-Barwin/Cushing-James/JJ-KJ-McCain-Manning-Quin

Contrary to what you mave read elsewhere, this year the Texans have been using a 2-4-5 nickel* and a 2-3-6 dime. In the 2-4-5 nickel there are four linemen (two OLBs and two DEs), two ILBs (normally) and five DBs. In the nickel formation, like the base 3-4, ideally you want one pass-rusher/run-stopper ILB(Cushing) and one cover ILB (Sharpton). *In this package the Texans have been using SS Glover Quin in the role of cover ILB, who I believe would have been replaced in this package by Sharpton on his return from injury, so technically up to the Cushing injury there was no difference between the Texans' nickel and dime except that they moved Quin around.
Texans' nickel:
Reed-Watt-Smith-Barwin/Cushing-Quin*/JJ-KJ-McCain-Manning-Demps

In the Texans dime package there are four linemen (two OLBs and two DEs), one ILB and six DBs. Cushing has been the lone ILB in this package (I wonder if Sharpton would have taken this role at some point as Cushing is not really that good in coverage).
Texans' dime:
Reed-Watt-Smith-Barwin/Cushing/JJ-KJ-McCain-Manning-Quin-Demps

That was before Cushing and Demps were injured. In the base 3-4 they'll rotate Dobbins and Alexander alongside James. All of these guys play well downhill but basically suck in coverage so the defense is going to have a hard time with passes over the middle and short routes outside the hash marks on first downs. One option to help with this until Sharpton's return could be to sub Quin at ILB in the base package like they've been doing in the nickel. Now that Demps is out Nolan would come in at SS.
Texans' new base 3-4 before Sharpton returns:
Reed-Watt-Cody-Smith-Barwin/James-Dobbins(Quin?)/JJ-KJ-Manning-Quin(Nolan?)

In the nickel they've already been subbing a safety for the cover ILB so in this formation the biggest difference will be the loss of Cushing's pass-rush abilty over James. Again, now that Demps is out Nolan would come in at SS.
Texans' new nickel before Sharpton returns:
Reed-Watt-Smith-Barwin/James-Quin*/JJ-KJ-McCain-Manning-Nolan

Up to this point I believe I've been on firm ground...now I'm not as confident. I don't see really James as the sole ILB in the dime package.
Texans' dime before Sharpton returns:
Reed-Watt-Smith-Barwin/James(Quin?)/JJ-KJ-McCain-Manning-Nolan-Quin(Harris?Carmichael?) with Quin at ILB that would technically be a quarter package.

After Sharpton's return (maybe week 9-10):
Texans' base 3-4:
Reed-Watt-Cody-Smith-Barwin/James-Sharpton/JJ-KJ-McCain-Manning-Quin
Texans' nickel:
Reed-Watt-Smith-Barwin/James-Sharpton/JJ-KJ-McCain-Manning-Quin
Texans' dime:
Reed-Watt-Smith-Barwin/Sharpton/JJ-KJ-McCain-Manning-Quin-Nolan

I do think that they had plans to draft an ILB next year, but that they also wanted to see if Reed could learn to play inside, the same thing they've been doing with Cushing. The Texan's OLBs do have a fair amount of coverage responsibilities, often allowing other defenders to rush the passer inside, so I think this is a possibility of Reed being moved to ILB somewhere down the road. But then, the plan is probably to let Barwin walk next year, start Mercilus at OLB opposite Reed and draft to upgrade at ILB.
Nice work, but a couple of your base 3-4 lineups would have 12 men on the field. I assume McCain would be the odd-man-out. Also, this thing about Reed possibly being moved to ILB, is this a rumor started by fans or is there some evidence the Texans are looking at this? If so, could you or, anyone else, provide a link? I haven't heard of this being mentioned from the Texans at all and I just wonder if Reed has the skill set to do this. I know it looks good on paper, moving him to ILB and having Mercilus as OLB, but has Reed ever played ILB? It's a lot tougher position mentally than OLB. Not saying he couldn't handle it, but if he's never played the position, that's a tough move to make this quickly.
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Old 10-11-2012   #114
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Default Re: Our new look ILB position moving forward.

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Only if the Texans trade-up for him, which is really really risky.
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Old 10-11-2012   #115
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Default Re: Our new look ILB position moving forward.

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Originally Posted by Insideop View Post
Nice work, but a couple of your base 3-4 lineups would have 12 men on the field. I assume McCain would be the odd-man-out. Also, this thing about Reed possibly being moved to ILB, is this a rumor started by fans or is there some evidence the Texans are looking at this? If so, could you or, anyone else, provide a link? I haven't heard of this being mentioned from the Texans at all and I just wonder if Reed has the skill set to do this. I know it looks good on paper, moving him to ILB and having Mercilus as OLB, but has Reed ever played ILB? It's a lot tougher position mentally than OLB. Not saying he couldn't handle it, but if he's never played the position, that's a tough move to make this quickly.
Thanks for correcting me...took me a while to write the damn thing...lots of revisions.

Quote:
“I’m never opposed to putting my best players out on the field, especially on third downs,” Phillips said. “Those guys, we’ll come up with some kind of defense that fits our personnel rather than having a certain defense that everybody has to play and you have to plays’ a four-man look and one of your best players is sitting on the bench.

“I can envision, right now, those three guys (Mercilus, Barwin and Reed) along with J.J. (Watt) and Antonio (Smith) being in the rush group and one of them dropping and the other four rushing, which gives people problems. Of course, you also have (Brian) Cushing in there. I think we’ll be formidable that way.”
Quote:
Texans pass rush could be overwhelming for quarterbacks
by John McClain - If you’re the opposing quarterback, and Phillips is calling for a six-player blitz, here’s who’s coming: Barwin, Mercilus, Watt, Smith, Reed and Cushing.
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93655
Quote:
Herring also talked about Reed’s “linebacker body.”

“That’s where people get discombobulated with him,” Herring said. “Look, he’s 6-2½, 250. The fact that he was playing with his hand in the dirt (the three-point stance of a defensive end) in college turned him into a ‘tweener’ to some people. But he was always a ‘Mike’ linebacker to us. Half the teams in the draft wanted him bad, and the other half didn’t think he could (make the transition). We were in the half that saw the upside potential. He’s still projecting and growing as a player. The sky’s the limit.”
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans...stomer-off-it/

There was also a practice quote I read again last night where Phillips says Reed might be able to move inside that came out earlier this year in May I believe, but I can't find it now.
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Old 10-11-2012   #116
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Default Re: Our new look ILB position moving forward.

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What are you willing to give up to trade up to get him?
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Old 10-11-2012   #117
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Default Re: Our new look ILB position moving forward.

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
Only if the Texans trade-up for him, which is really really risky.
We'll have to give up a ton to get him I think. To me he's a better prospect than Luke Kuechly and I don't see him falling past the 10-12 range.
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Old 10-11-2012   #118
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Default Re: Our new look ILB position moving forward.

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Originally Posted by Insideop View Post
Nice work, but a couple of your base 3-4 lineups would have 12 men on the field. I assume McCain would be the odd-man-out. Also, this thing about Reed possibly being moved to ILB, is this a rumor started by fans or is there some evidence the Texans are looking at this? If so, could you or, anyone else, provide a link? I haven't heard of this being mentioned from the Texans at all and I just wonder if Reed has the skill set to do this. I know it looks good on paper, moving him to ILB and having Mercilus as OLB, but has Reed ever played ILB? It's a lot tougher position mentally than OLB. Not saying he couldn't handle it, but if he's never played the position, that's a tough move to make this quickly.
Can't provide a link, sorry. IIRC, Wade mentioned it in a presser during the PS as a way to perhaps get Merciles on the field at the same time as all the other starters.
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Old 10-11-2012   #119
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Default Re: Our new look ILB position moving forward.

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Originally Posted by drs23 View Post
Can't provide a link, sorry. IIRC, Wade mentioned it in a presser during the PS as a way to perhaps get Merciles on the field at the same time as all the other starters.

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Defensive Coordinator Wade Phillips Apr 26, 2012

(on where he fits with Connor Barwin and Brooks Reed in a rotation) “Yeah, he certainly fits right in there. I think he’s a pass rusher, and I think we’d utilize him more in the pass rush rather than over the tight end. We’ll see, but I’ve played them all before. We had (Steve) Foley, and Shaun Phillips, and (Shawne) Merriman, and we played them all on third down. Just put your best people in, and we can come up with something. If they’re good enough, we’ll put them in there and let them rush.”
link
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Old 10-11-2012   #120
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Default Re: Our new look ILB position moving forward.

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Maybe we will see a little of that this week???
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