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Old 09-26-2012   #21
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Schaub is getting hit a lot from the bootleg now though. Is it worth it if it ends up resulting in him getting knocked out of a game?
We're not going to stop running the bootleg. That's an integral part of the offense.
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Old 09-27-2012   #22
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

They either guess right, guess wrong, or get caught in between and react slowly.
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Old 09-27-2012   #23
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

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They either guess right, guess wrong, or get caught in between and react slowly.
I agree. It's all about being predictable with it. If they sack Schaub before he gets around, that means we were too predictable, they knew it was coming. Which doesn't happen.

Being a few feet away from him... probably means we're not as successful in the run or passing game... we broke it out too early... or something of that nature.

We run & pass out of the same formations, we'll run on 3 & 8, pass on 2 & 1.... heck I remember on one play we added an extra lineman in short yardage situation & still threw the ball... it's pretty hard to "figure out" our offense
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Old 09-27-2012   #24
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

I'm interested in seeing what a true running threat like RG3 can do in this offense. So far he looks really good behind a putrid OL. Shanny using RG3 on the triple option is probably going to get him killed though. Little Shanny is such a tough guy. LOL
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Old 09-27-2012   #25
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
We're not going to stop running the bootleg. That's an integral part of the offense.
Yeah, it is key and I know we aren't going to stop using it.
The questions I have are:
1) Is there a way we can keep Schaub from taking such brutal hits coming off it? Its like teams have said to try and hit him hardest from a full sprint out of the bootleg

2) Is there a way we can disguise it better so backside pursuit isn't right in his face the minute he turns around?

A few years ago he would have 2-3 seconds to make a decision unharrassed. Most of the time now it seems like he's got <1 second to stop moving, plant, and get the ball out. During that time he sets himself up for some nasty hits
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Old 09-27-2012   #26
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Yeah, it is key and I know we aren't going to stop using it.
The questions I have are:
1) Is there a way we can keep Schaub from taking such brutal hits coming off it? Its like teams have said to try and hit him hardest from a full sprint out of the bootleg

2) Is there a way we can disguise it better so backside pursuit isn't right in his face the minute he turns around?

A few years ago he would have 2-3 seconds to make a decision unharrassed. Most of the time now it seems like he's got <1 second to stop moving, plant, and get the ball out. During that time he sets himself up for some nasty hits
Can you think of any instance where he has really been laid out running boot leg? It seems to me that the boot is actually a defense against that because there is the outlet pass that the defender has to be concerned with.
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Old 09-27-2012   #27
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

He never used to be quick footed but before the injury it seems like he was able to get out of the bootleg and throw the ball away more effectively.
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Old 09-27-2012   #28
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

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Originally Posted by Allstar View Post
They either guess right, guess wrong, or get caught in between and react slowly.
Exactly...this play was made possible b/c of the bootleg, & it's a wonderful thing to see that backside cutback lane to open up for our backs...it's literally like taking candy from a baby.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk7fCVw9g50

we're so balanced b/c we've got serious threats in the run game & the passing game
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Old 09-27-2012   #29
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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
What he said!
X3....

A QB getting hit on an bootleg is gonna happen. Kind of like a QB getting hit running the option. Just something that comes with the play. He's not fast nor was he ever fast enough to out run an rush so yes he is getting hit hard.
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Old 09-27-2012   #30
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I'm interested in seeing what a true running threat like RG3 can do in this offense. So far he looks really good behind a putrid OL. Shanny using RG3 on the triple option is probably going to get him killed though. Little Shanny is such a tough guy. LOL
You mean if you could switch places between Schaub and RGIII? It's the same offensive philosophy on both teams. That's an interesting question because I'm too simple-minded to play the "what if" game. I'm glad we have Schaub and I just hope he can stay healthy all 16 games and the three playoff games, counting the expected first-round bye and Super Bowl 47 in New Orleans.
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Old 09-27-2012   #31
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Exactly...this play was made possible b/c of the bootleg, & it's a wonderful thing to see that backside cutback lane to open up for our backs...it's literally like taking candy from a baby.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk7fCVw9g50

we're so balanced b/c we've got serious threats in the run game & the passing game
This exactly.

When teams start guessing it's only a matter of time before they get burned.
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Old 09-27-2012   #32
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I'm interested in seeing what a true running threat like RG3 can do in this offense. So far he looks really good behind a putrid OL. Shanny using RG3 on the triple option is probably going to get him killed though. Little Shanny is such a tough guy. LOL
I told people this in the thread where we were discussing him. His o-line is going to ruin him before he can really become elite........if Shanahan doesn't fix it fast that is.

1 of the most underrated things about Kubiak amongst fans here is his timely playcalling & the plays he calls that serve to protect Schaub. RG3 doesn't have that with the Shannys. He's an exceptional athlete, but they're calling too many designed running plays with him....he's not as big as VY & Cam & he can't take the kind of punishment he took against the bengals week in, week out.

They also don't really have a credible running threat behind him.
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Old 09-27-2012   #33
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

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Originally Posted by nero THE zero View Post
Can you think of any instance where he has really been laid out running boot leg? It seems to me that the boot is actually a defense against that because there is the outlet pass that the defender has to be concerned with.
The Mays hit came off a play action boot leg looking play, right?
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Old 09-27-2012   #34
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
The Mays hit came off a play action boot leg looking play, right?
Yes, it did...but i'm sure you know play-action & bootleg are 2 different things. Bootlegs, the Qb is completely out of the pocket, play-action the qb is still in the pocket. They're only the same in that both fake the handoff to the rb.
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Old 09-27-2012   #35
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Yes, it did...but i'm sure you know play-action & bootleg are 2 different things. Bootlegs, the Qb is completely out of the pocket, play-action the qb is still in the pocket. They're only the same in that both fake the handoff to the rb.
Yes I know they are different. All of our bootlegs come off play action. I seem to remember in the Mays play that he was well away from the normal pocket. I'll need to look at the replay

EDIT: Here it is:



Looks like a boot to me. The OL moves well away from Schaub, toward the left side of the field, while he rolls out to the right
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Old 09-27-2012   #36
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Yeah, it is key and I know we aren't going to stop using it.
The questions I have are:
1) Is there a way we can keep Schaub from taking such brutal hits coming off it? Its like teams have said to try and hit him hardest from a full sprint out of the bootleg

2) Is there a way we can disguise it better so backside pursuit isn't right in his face the minute he turns around?

A few years ago he would have 2-3 seconds to make a decision unharrassed. Most of the time now it seems like he's got <1 second to stop moving, plant, and get the ball out. During that time he sets himself up for some nasty hits
With Denver, you're seeing the players forcing the issue because the refs are missing calls. The players were testing these replacement refs to see how far they could go and how much more they could get away with. And with Del Rio, he was going to have his guys cream Schaub no matter what.

If you watch that play with the Mays hit, Mays wasn't the back side defender. Mays came from the middle of the field. Newton missed the block on him... which might have been why Harris got some playing time after that. And that was a relatively slow developing play. Matt was taking his time to give Andre a chance to get to the end-zone.

Matt had plenty of time on lots of other bootlegs against them.
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Old 09-27-2012   #37
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
The Mays hit came off a play action boot leg looking play, right?
Yep. That was a bootleg.
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Old 09-27-2012   #38
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

For the record, I can probably predict about 85% of the time that we are doing a bootleg while watching the game. It doesnt seem to be that tough anymore. After running that play to perfection for the past 5 years, I would expect defenses are starting to catch on and LB's are starting to "stay home" a little more often now when they play us because of it.

No surprise here.
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Old 09-27-2012   #39
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Yes I know they are different. All of our bootlegs come off play action. I seem to remember in the Mays play that he was well away from the normal pocket. I'll need to look at the replay

EDIT: Here it is:



Looks like a boot to me. The OL moves well away from Schaub, toward the left side of the field, while he rolls out to the right
Yeah, probably was a bootleg..looks like schaub just stopped short of booting all the way out b/c he had what he wanted downfield with Dre & had to get the ball out immediately....There was also pressure coming from the outside guy too...mays just got there 1st.

The only thing that gives me a little pause about it not being a bootleg is b/c schaub has a hitch at the top of his throw....you usually don't set up to throw like like that on a bootleg.
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Old 09-27-2012   #40
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

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Yeah, probably was a bootleg..looks like schaub just stopped short of booting all the way out b/c he had what he wanted downfield with Dre & had to get the ball out immediately....There was also pressure coming from the outside guy too...mays just got there 1st.

The only thing that gives me a little pause about it not being a bootleg is b/c schaub has a hitch at the top of his throw....you usually don't set up to throw like like that on a bootleg.
That's not a good view.

Check this out instead.

It's a bootleg.
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