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Old 09-24-2012   #1
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Default Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

Three years ago or so, when Matt would roll out into a bootleg, he would usually be all alone. At most, there would be one DE running hard but a few yards away

Now I feel like when I watch Schaub roll out there is usually someone right in his face. Its resulting in tougher throws and hard hits.

Have teams started to pick up on the bootlegs?
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Old 09-24-2012   #2
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Three years ago or so, when Matt would roll out into a bootleg, he would usually be all alone. At most, there would be one DE running hard but a few yards away

Now I feel like when I watch Schaub roll out there is usually someone right in his face. Its resulting in tougher throws and hard hits.

Have teams started to pick up on the bootlegs?
Figuring out is probably not the word that I would use. It's more of that they are taking our bootlegs seriously after 3 years.
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Old 09-24-2012   #3
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Three years ago or so, when Matt would roll out into a bootleg, he would usually be all alone. At most, there would be one DE running hard but a few yards away

Now I feel like when I watch Schaub roll out there is usually someone right in his face. Its resulting in tougher throws and hard hits.

Have teams started to pick up on the bootlegs?
I don't know that I would say figuring it out- they definitely know that it's a major part of our arsenal, and there is pressure. However, it's still very effective- I imagine if it stops working, we won't do it, but as long as we can run the ball effectively, it should still be successful a good portion of the time.
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Old 09-24-2012   #4
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They're just more prepared for it is all, and actually working on defending it in practice...

Two long TDs off of it yesterday...if they've figured it out they're still not stopping it...
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Old 09-24-2012   #5
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

It's a matter of a defense's strong point. If they trust in their DBs they'll play coverage regardless of the boot because they know Schaub isn't going to tuck it and run. If they have a strong front 7, they'll have an LB shadow him. But if an LB is shadowing your QB, there's a wide open man every time.
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Old 09-24-2012   #6
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

As long as we have 1 of the most dangerous rb combos in the backfield....no. I've been on i don't know how many other teams' messageboards where they say something angrily like "they're killing us with the bootleg like they don't know its coming...".

Knowing its coming & figuring it out is not the point...its respecting both aspects of it b/c we can kill you with the run or pass through it either way.
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Old 09-24-2012   #7
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

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As long as we have 1 of the most dangerous rb combos in the backfield....no. I've been on i don't know how many other teams' messageboards where they say something angrily like "they're killing us with the bootleg like they don't know its coming...".

Knowing its coming & figuring it out is not the point...its respecting both aspects of it b/c we can kill you with the run or pass through it either way.
Exactly, its pick your poison with this offense, you can't cover all the things we're good at, if you cheat and try to guess what we're going to do, we can absolutely kill you if you've guessed wrong.

For every time you see a bootleg rollout where a LB is only yards away from Schaub by the time he's ready to begin his reads, there are plays where a LB is stood all alone covering nobody because he's waiting on a bootleg that hasn't come, suddenly you're playing 11 vs. 10, so they can shut it down all they want, we still get a big advantage out of it.

It seems kinda strange to me that a guy like Schaub who lets be honest is your prototypical statuesque pocket passer by skill-set is one of the deadliest passers in the league when he gets outside the pocket and on the move, thats down to great coaching, fantastic extended route design and an Oline that is looking increasingly plug-and-play in scheme with great talent. (The Oline may have taken some time to get going in the early years of ZBS, but my lord it only has one single high pick on it and no matter who we trot out there they seem to find success).
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Old 09-24-2012   #8
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

teams have already "figured it out". They just don't guess right all the time.
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Old 09-24-2012   #9
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

One thing I would add is it looks like Matt is more decisive lately when he faces the quick pressure on those rollouts. I know in the past he used to act a bit surprised and occasionally panic leading to a big sack but the last few games he is relaxed and knows to just do a quick dump off to Casey or whoever is his outlet on the rollout side.
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Old 09-24-2012   #10
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

It all depends on the defense we're playing and how they're playing us and how good the backside contain defender is at reading the hand-off.

Against some teams, Matt has a nice big open field to jog in while he's looking downfield. Against some teams, he's got to take a different angle to let the play develop. Against other teams, he's got to get rid of the ball fast.

The playcalls adjust by how the defense is trying to stop us. Cause if your backside contain guy is worrying too much about Matt, he's not stopping Arian or he's not covering someone else.
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Old 09-24-2012   #11
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

theres a difference between figuring it out and expecting it.. i think the texans had a counter for the jags when they werent falling for the bootleg. quick screens picking up 10 yards at a time. the bootleg doesnt just have to fool the front 7, if it can get the safeties to commit to the run for just a second than guys like andre and walter can get open deep like yesterday..
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Old 09-24-2012   #12
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The thing is that our run and bootleg pass look exactly the same so yeah pick your poison. The DE/OLB have a fraction of a second to commit or contain...I like those odds. The fact that some teams are keeping the "end" there is a great thing one way or another. Can't key off if they look the same.
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Old 09-24-2012   #13
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

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teams have already "figured it out". They just don't guess right all the time.
^^^^ This
....is part of it.

Another part is nearly all teams have it in their play book so it ain't like they don't see it in practice....

but few are as effective with it as we are.

And the way it's designed we have several options to chose from
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Old 09-24-2012   #14
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Three years ago or so, when Matt would roll out into a bootleg, he would usually be all alone. At most, there would be one DE running hard but a few yards away

Now I feel like when I watch Schaub roll out there is usually someone right in his face. Its resulting in tougher throws and hard hits.

Have teams started to pick up on the bootlegs?


If by "figuring it out" you mean they know were going to do it? Yes.

If by "figuring it out" with regards to "stopping it"? No!! 290 yards passing and 152 yards rushing against a pretty darn good defense. 442 yards by any measure is pretty damn good!!
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Old 09-24-2012   #15
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

Especially with John Elway as one of the head honchos in the Broncos organization.

Not to mention the DC Jack Del Rio, who was the Jaguars HC from 03 to 2011.

There's hardly anything Kubiak throw at them that the Broncos don't know.
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Old 09-26-2012   #16
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Thumbs up Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

Stick the RUN down their throats. Hypnotize. Make them think "RUN" all the time. Freeze the linebackers thinking it's a RUN. SELL IT. Let the CB's buy it. BOOM, long BOMB.
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Old 09-26-2012   #17
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

No one can figure out someones offense, just prepare for it. Defenses probably put QB spies in just to make sure Schaub doesn't roll out.
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Old 09-26-2012   #18
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It's not about figuring it out. It's about remaining disciplined when you play this style of offense. Backside guy has to stay home.

Only thing is, this offense is designed to make the defense wrong a lot of times no matter what.

That backside guy staying home to defend the bootleg makes it a lot easier for the running back to cut it back if he does actually get the ball.

Coaches pick up on that stuff. If the backside guys are crashing hard down the line chasing the rb, better believe there's going to be a bootleg coming.

If they are staying home to defending the boot, they'll tell the rb the offense that the cut back lanes are there.
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Old 09-27-2012   #19
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

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It's not about figuring it out. It's about remaining disciplined when you play this style of offense. Backside guy has to stay home.

Only thing is, this offense is designed to make the defense wrong a lot of times no matter what.

That backside guy staying home to defend the bootleg makes it a lot easier for the running back to cut it back if he does actually get the ball.

Coaches pick up on that stuff. If the backside guys are crashing hard down the line chasing the rb, better believe there's going to be a bootleg coming.

If they are staying home to defending the boot, they'll tell the rb the offense that the cut back lanes are there.
What he said!
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Old 09-27-2012   #20
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Default Re: Are teams figuring out our bootleg?

Schaub is getting hit a lot from the bootleg now though. Is it worth it if it ends up resulting in him getting knocked out of a game?
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