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Old 02-02-2014   #1921
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Yeah... you're the only one equating partying with "worst in the league"
I don't know, you just compared Manziel to one of the bigger draft busts in recent memory, compared their lifestyles, and all but touted it a trend. If you're not suggesting that Manziel is likely to end up as one, you're being disingenuous.

For the record I think Manziel is going to be a bust. Off-the-field concerns aren't the reasons why. One look at the tape and his (now that I no longer have to cheer for him) crap mechanics are apparent. Every throw looks like it's off the back shoulder, he constantly overlooks wide open receivers, and still bolts too much.
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Old 02-03-2014   #1922
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by stingray View Post
The seahawks won because of a dominating performance by a defense. I mean come on..the mvp was a linebacker. Wilson played ok..not great.
The Seahawks won because they we're a superior team in all three aspects of the game (D, O & ST). Wilson had a 123 rating and 8.7 per carry avg (and even had a 22 yd run called back). The SEA offense scored 27 points and Wilson led them on every drive with poise and skill not many Soph QBs have shown. Wilson could have easily been the MVP also, but that LB had a pretty damn good game.
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Old 02-03-2014   #1923
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by htownfan32 View Post
I don't know, you just compared Manziel to one of the bigger draft busts in recent memory, compared their lifestyles, and all but touted it a trend. If you're not suggesting that Manziel is likely to end up as one, you're being disingenuous.
:sigh:
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Old 02-03-2014   #1924
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Texan in Japan View Post
Watching Russell Wilson in the Super Bowl, makes me lean towards Manziel. I look at the speed of today's defenses and the stress a mobile QB puts on them. Wilson bought his team time and made plays with his arm and feet. I believe Manziel can do this and more. He would certainly bring some excitement to the team and move us into the 21st Century of QB play. Plus if we keep Case, we can set-up and offense that pretty much either one of them could run.
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The Seahawks won because they we're a superior team in all three aspects of the game (D, O & ST). Wilson had a 123 rating and 8.7 per carry avg (and even had a 22 yd run called back). The SEA offense scored 27 points and Wilson led them on every drive with poise and skill not many Soph QBs have shown. Wilson could have easily been the MVP also, but that LB had a pretty damn good game.


agree
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Old 02-03-2014   #1925
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Default Re: Manziel

Seattle's win shows how much flexibility you have with your defense when you can get pressure with just your down linemen.
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Old 02-03-2014   #1926
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Default Re: Manziel

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Seattle's win shows how much flexibility you have with your defense when you can get pressure with just your down linemen.
To me it shows how much ass whooppin power you have when you dominate on offense, defense and ST.
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Old 02-03-2014   #1927
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by htownfan32 View Post
So because the two like to have a good time, Manziel = Matt Leinart. Nice logic, that.

I suppose any player that likes to have a good time is a automatic bust. That Gronkowski guy is one of the worst TEs I've ever seen in my life.
At least that's true NOW! He's being paid a bundle and can't get on the field. But it could be worse. You could be paying a bundle to a guy in prison. But who would do such a thing?
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Old 02-03-2014   #1928
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by htownfan32 View Post
Yes, but you say that like he parties instead of practicing. The only egregious thing that stands out to me is the Manning Academy incident. Other than that, he did what other college kids do, except TMZ was following him around.

If he partied hard during football season I'd have issues. He doesn't, so I'm not sure why everyone (this isn't directed at you as much as it is at everyone) tabs Manziel as a party boy when none of this goes on during business time.
Possibly because it's such a surprise to his followers that he is preparing for the biggest interview of his life instead of partying that they feel the need to post pictures of it as if he deserves credit for doing the same thing that every single other player who wants to get drafted is doing?...

I'm with TK. Leinart was all business during the season. But what was his reputation?
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Old 02-03-2014   #1929
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Default Re: Manziel

These Manziel/Wilson comparisons aren't going to stop so I'll just caution y'all. Wilson was far more prepared for the transition to the NFL game than Manziel is.

That says nothing of Manziel's skill, which he obviously has a lot of. But as to how his skills translate, he is closer to a more polished, less athletic Michael Vick than he is to Russell Wilson.
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Old 02-03-2014   #1930
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Default Re: Manziel

& to add onto to Bah's post, Wilson was drafted later in the draft with next to no expectations that he'd be anything more than a back up.....

Manziel is likely gonna be taken early by a bad team with huge expectations for him to become a star.........

The 2 situations are no where close to the same for each player.
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Old 02-03-2014   #1931
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
These Manziel/Wilson comparisons aren't going to stop so I'll just caution y'all. Wilson was far more prepared for the transition to the NFL game than Manziel is.

That says nothing of Manziel's skill, which he obviously has a lot of. But as to how his skills translate, he is closer to a more polished, less athletic Michael Vick than he is to Russell Wilson.
I agree with a lot of what you say and not to get too far off topic but Manziel (and Teddy) are both going to be almost exactly 2 years younger as rookies than Russell. Theoretically they could sit their rookie year behind a vet, start 16 games their sophomore season and then be the same age their third year as Wilson was as a rookie. I have followed the MLB draft closely for longer than the NFL and it definitely seems to be a bigger deal in baseball to look at age relative to competition. Am I correct in that assumption or totally off-base?
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Old 02-03-2014   #1932
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
I doubt there are many people who would take partying for a few days over setting yourself up for life by doing work.

You know that like Clowney showing up at Senior Bowl, JFF representation is pulling every possible string to put him in a good light. At the very least you give him credit for good representation and taking their advice.
..and the haters are doing all they can to minimize any positives.

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Not specific to Manziel, but I think this excuse for NFL prospects is ludicrous. Nothing in these kids' lives is ordinary and hasn't been for years.

It makes no sense to dismiss one piece of their lives as "like ordinary kids" when nothing in their lives is ordinary.
Agreed. By the same token, IF you think he's a party animal that still comes out and performs, what's the real concern?

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One person does not a trend make. Gronk parties hard, but I doubt you'll be rushing to call him one of the worst TEs in the league.

Ken Stabler played drunk. Does logic assert that we should expect QBs who like to drink to win Super Bowls in their career?
With Namath, that's at least two.

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& to add onto to Bah's post, Wilson was drafted later in the draft with next to no expectations that he'd be anything more than a back up.....

Manziel is likely gonna be taken early by a bad team with huge expectations for him to become a star.........

The 2 situations are no where close to the same for each player.
Correct, Wilson was nowhere near the collegiate player that Manziel was and therefore wasn't taken as high. Those 7-9 Seahawks weren't that far from a "bad" team either.
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Old 02-03-2014   #1933
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Default Re: Manziel

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Agreed. By the same token, IF you think he's a party animal that still comes out and performs, what's the real concern?
Agreed. AJ is a weekly bar regular during the season and still performs. Got nothing against that. Just don't like the kids excuse. I would also prefer they keep it a non-spectacle.
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Old 02-03-2014   #1934
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Agreed. AJ is a weekly bar regular during the season and still performs. Got nothing against that. Just don't like the kids excuse. I would also prefer they keep it a non-spectacle.
With Manziel, unfortunately, you're liable to get a circus. If the kid can keep it on the DL in the pros it'll be better for him in the long run image-wise.
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Old 02-03-2014   #1935
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Possibly because it's such a surprise to his followers that he is preparing for the biggest interview of his life instead of partying that they feel the need to post pictures of it as if he deserves credit for doing the same thing that every single other player who wants to get drafted is doing?...

I'm with TK. Leinart was all business during the season. But what was his reputation?
It's not a surprise to his "followers" that he is doing what he is supposed to do. He's been doing it all year. It's being posted because one of the main reasons his detractors say he will fail is, according to them he's not dedicated enough. That all he wants to do is party. That he is immature.
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Old 02-03-2014   #1936
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by htownfan32 View Post
With Manziel, unfortunately, you're liable to get a circus. If the kid can keep it on the DL in the pros it'll be better for him in the long run image-wise.
Joe "Willie" Namath was a circus and he was celebrated as "Broadway Joe"....just sayin
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Old 02-03-2014   #1937
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Joe "Willie" Namath was a circus and he was celebrated as "Broadway Joe"....just sayin
We used to drink beer in the parking lot of a store on the main strip in high school back in the late 70's early 80's .
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Old 02-03-2014   #1938
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Default Re: Manziel

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We used to drink beer in the parking lot of a store on the main strip in high school back in the late 70's early 80's .
Lol, right....just like once upon a time folks thought the earth was flat...
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Old 02-03-2014   #1939
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
It's not a surprise to his "followers" that he is doing what he is supposed to do. He's been doing it all year. It's being posted because one of the main reasons his detractors say he will fail is, according to them he's not dedicated enough. That all he wants to do is party. That he is immature.
I don't agree with any of that. I think he is an amazing competitor. I do think he is somewhat immature but I don't think to the degree that will make him fail in the pros.

I don't think he'll have long term success in the NFL because I don't think his skills translate cleanly to the next level. I think he'll be an exciting player who has two or three really good years and then flames out as teams adjust to him and force him to use his arm and brain as his primary weapons. That's not a popular opinion around here but it's what I think.
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Old 02-03-2014   #1940
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Default Re: Manziel

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I don't agree with any of that. I think he is an amazing competitor. I do think he is somewhat immature but I don't think to the degree that will make him fail in the pros.

I don't think he'll have long term success in the NFL because I don't think his skills translate cleanly to the next level. I think he'll be an exciting player who has two or three really good years and then flames out as teams adjust to him and force him to use his arm and brain as his primary weapons. That's not a popular opinion around here but it's what I think.
Actually, you've got a die-hard Ag in me that agrees with you there.

He'll have to switch up his game if he wants to succeed in the pros. Too much bust capability for me to pull the trigger on him if I was a GM. Takes a bigger gambler than we have in Rick Smith IMO to grab Manziel at 1-1.
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