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Old 01-28-2014   #1861
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
If you put mentor and Vick in the same sentence with anything other than "worst possible" you need to go give yourself a swirlie.

Suitable for what? - guaranteeing Manziel becomes a self-absorbed, uncoachable, low effort, prima donna?
Swirlie = lol. Haven't heard that in a long long time. Oh, the memories of being in High School in the days where hazing was merely a tradition

Agreed on Vick. The dude has pork rinds for brains. The dude hasn't even played a full season since the Falcons.
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Old 01-28-2014   #1862
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by kingtexan View Post
Vick entered the league basically being what JFF is going to be ... extremely talented and extremely immature. Vick turned it around and although he still isnt the pro Manning is, he is light years ahead of where he was when he went down. I think he could be a positive influence, and may want that chance to go out being known as such.
I'll agree in so much that I do see the similarities in Vick & Manziel. But I think the "immature" thing is overblown in the case of Manziel & I don't believe it was an issue for Vick.

I also think the "Vick turned it around" thing was overblown. He had that one good season, got paid, then reverted back to the old Vick.

I don't think Manziel wants to run as much as most people think. I don't think the offense he was in gave him too many options.

I also don't think we should spend the #1 overall to find out.
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Old 01-28-2014   #1863
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by kingtexan View Post
Vick entered the league basically being what JFF is going to be ... extremely talented and extremely immature. Vick turned it around and although he still isnt the pro Manning is, he is light years ahead of where he was when he went down. I think he could be a positive influence, and may want that chance to go out being known as such.

We are most likely drafting Clowney, and if not trading the pick, so it really is just a discussion for the sake of discussing ... very little chance we ever find out if it works or not.
And what makes you think Manziel is immature?
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Old 01-28-2014   #1864
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
And what makes you think Manziel is immature?
C'mon, you may not agree but you know full well what people are talking about when saying Manziel is immature. Going to a UT party, saying he can't wait to get out of College Station, his childish celebrations, blowing the Manning camp...

It's like asking "what makes you think Clowney has motivation issues." Everyone knows the issue, they just disagree on the significance.
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Old 01-28-2014   #1865
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
C'mon, you may not agree but you know full well what people are talking about when saying Manziel is immature. Going to a UT party, saying he can't wait to get out of College Station, his childish celebrations, blowing the Manning camp...

It's like asking "what makes you think Clowney has motivation issues." Everyone knows the issue, they just disagree on the significance.
I think a of lot the 'immaturity' perception was blown up over the offseason (as with Clowney's notoriety due to 'The Hit'); most of those just sound like a kid in college - even Peyton brushed off that talk when asked about Manziel not appearing at the QB camp. And childish celebrations? Really?

I agree with the Favre comparisons; I think people will be surprised by JFF and he will be more successful than people predict, though I don't think he's the right guy for OB's offense.
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Old 01-28-2014   #1866
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by bhsman View Post
I think a of lot the 'immaturity' perception was blown up over the offseason (as with Clowney's notoriety due to 'The Hit'); most of those just sound like a kid in college - even Peyton brushed off that talk when asked about Manziel not appearing at the QB camp. And childish celebrations? Really?
I am not arguing the merits of the concerns. Just saying it is silly to waste time asking as if the issue doesn't exist.

And yes his celebrations are childish and drew a penalty. Totally miniscule but an example of the overall immaturity issue.
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Old 01-28-2014   #1867
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I am not arguing the merits of the concerns. Just saying it is silly to waste time asking as if the issue doesn't exist.

And yes his celebrations are childish and drew a penalty. Totally miniscule but an example of the overall immaturity issue.
Aside from that, can you recall any issues during football season?

I can't either - and even if you think Manziel is an immature douche in the offseason, it's hard to deny that during football season he's all business. Outside the money celebration in the first game he had 0 issues all season long.
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Old 01-28-2014   #1868
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by htownfan32 View Post
Aside from that, can you recall any issues during football season?

I can't either - and even if you think Manziel is an immature douche in the offseason, it's hard to deny that during football season he's all business. Outside the money celebration in the first game he had 0 issues all season long.
I really wasn't trying to get into this. Oh well.

I consider his failure to secure the football to be some combination of immaturity or lack of coachability. Don't really care what pigeonhole it goes in, it is a serious on field problem to me.
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Old 01-28-2014   #1869
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by htownfan32 View Post
Aside from that, can you recall any issues during football season?

I can't either - and even if you think Manziel is an immature douche in the offseason, it's hard to deny that during football season he's all business. Outside the money celebration in the first game he had 0 issues all season long.
Did you even read the post you are quoting? He's not making the argument, just stating that everyone already knows the argument.
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Old 01-28-2014   #1870
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I really wasn't trying to get into this. Oh well.

I consider his failure to secure the football to be some combination of immaturity or lack of coachability. Don't really care what pigeonhole it goes in, it is a serious on field problem to me.
Are you referring to how he holds the ball when he takes off to run?
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Old 01-28-2014   #1871
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Default Re: Manziel

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Are you referring to how he holds the ball when he takes off to run?
I am talking about handling the ball when he is not in his throwing motion. He is far too cavalier about it.
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Old 01-28-2014   #1872
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I am talking about handling the ball when he is not in his throwing motion. He is far too cavalier about it.
And you take that as immaturity? He never really had a problem losing fumbles, but I agree he held it out too much, but got away with it in college.In the NFL he probably won't be so lucky, the DE in NFL have longer arms and will always swat at the ball soon as they get into range...whereas in college I think defenders were always more focused on just getting a hand on him period.
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Old 01-28-2014   #1873
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Default Re: Manziel

The more people want us to draft Manziel, the less likely it's going to happen, so keep it up all you Manziel lovers, keep it up.
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Old 01-28-2014   #1874
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
The more people want us to draft Manziel, the less likely it's going to happen, so keep it up all you Manziel lovers, keep it up.
Care to explain your inverse drafting proportion theory?
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Old 01-28-2014   #1875
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Default Re: Manziel

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Care to explain your inverse drafting proportion theory?
I think when the Texans drafted Andre was the last & only time the Texans drafted the guy "we" wanted.
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Old 01-28-2014   #1876
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
The more people want us to draft Manziel, the less likely it's going to happen, so keep it up all you Manziel lovers, keep it up.
I definitely think the whole billboard stuff is over the top, and probably does more harm than good to the "cause".
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Old 01-28-2014   #1877
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I am not arguing the merits of the concerns. Just saying it is silly to waste time asking as if the issue doesn't exist.

And yes his celebrations are childish and drew a penalty. Totally miniscule but an example of the overall immaturity issue.
It's totally over blown. He was under a bigger microscope than any player in college football. He made several minor mistakes. He was criticized like he committed a major crime. He obviously learned from it because while still being under the biggest microscope, he went through the entire year without incident. If anything that shows maturity.

So no it's not silly.

Quote:
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I consider his failure to secure the football to be some combination of immaturity or lack of coachability.
Now that is silly.
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Old 01-28-2014   #1878
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by matts290 View Post
And you take that as immaturity? He never really had a problem losing fumbles, but I agree he held it out too much, but got away with it in college.In the NFL he probably won't be so lucky, the DE in NFL have longer arms and will always swat at the ball soon as they get into range...whereas in college I think defenders were always more focused on just getting a hand on him period.
There was an OR in my statement.

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Now that is silly.
Then explain it. It is simple, he doesn't fix it and it is an on field problem. Pick your choice of words, quibbling over the description is silly.
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Old 01-28-2014   #1879
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Allstar View Post
Did you even read the post you are quoting? He's not making the argument, just stating that everyone already knows the argument.
I get that. His first sentence makes it pretty clear. What I was doing is trying to refute the immaturity that others keep claiming by branching off of his post, especially since most people bring up the money celebration. Cak's post just happened to be the last one to reference it, so I branched off that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
I am talking about handling the ball when he is not in his throwing motion. He is far too cavalier about it.


Like this? He's at best inconsistent about ball security, and it's a major concern to me too when he runs it like that. He's going to fumble a lot if this happens.
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Old 01-30-2014   #1880
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Default Re: Manziel

PROSPECT PROFILE: JOHNNY MANZIEL
Quote:
...I have spoken with numerous respected NFL scouts about him, and it's an understatement to say that opinions are split. A few have told me they feel he is the best quarterback in the draft, which is high praise indeed. But on the other hand, others have actually said they would not draft him. Needless to say, opinions split that drastically on a player are rare.

The first thing that grabbed my attention is that Manziel definitely has what scouts call a "plus arm," which means he can make every NFL throw with ease. While he often looks like he is playing schoolyard football, he has consistently shown quickness in getting rid of the ball and can make throws to lead receivers that few other passers can. Both in the pocket and on the move, Manziel's ability to throw accurately 16-plus yards downfield is outstanding, and you can see from watching film that he has spent a lot of time working with his receivers, as their timing on back-shoulder throws is remarkable. Although some of his moves to escape sacks will get him killed in the NFL, he does possess a rare ability to avoid pressure and sacks to buy himself a second chance that can extend plays longer than any quarterback I have ever evaluated.

Having to throw as many passes as he did, it's also impressive that Manziel throws few, if any, passes that defenders can get their hands on. Of the top five quarterbacks I have evaluated so far (Derek Carr, Blake Bortles, Bridgewater, Zach Mettenberger and Manziel), he has the lowest error/interception rate of any of them. Not only does Manziel have the passing skills to succeed in the NFL, but his ability to lead his team and carry them on his back to comebacks consistently has been incredible.

After evaluating film, I was shocked by how good Manziel is as a passer, but that's often not what people associate with him when his name comes up. Despite the media reports, nearly everything I have been able to dig up on Manziel's character has been positive. (Having worked for two NFL teams, I completely understand that scouts lie to media all the time to deceive and hide intentions, but I have tremendous confidence in my sources on this subject.) No one I spoke to will deny that Manziel can act like a spoiled kid who is still maturing as a young man, but none expressed great concern about his true character, with the consensus being that football is very important to Manziel and that he consistently does more than is asked to make sure he is successful.

Manziel is viewed within the program as a rare competitor who will do anything to succeed, and this shows in his willingness to play through pain and confront teammates when needed as leaders must do. One thing that shocked me when speaking to scouts is that prior to practice and games, Manziel actually goes through the process of making tough throws from awkward positions when he cannot set his feet and this shows up in his ability to make great throws despite terrible positioning. Not that his raw footwork is good when he has a clean pocket or time and space to reset feet, but it clearly pays dividends when outside the pocket.

Apart from positive character reports, scouts definitely expressed some real concerns that he must address in order to be as successful in the NFL as he was in college. High on that list is Manziel's tendency to...
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article...johnny-manziel
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