Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > Football Talk > College Football & the 2014 NFL Draft
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


College Football & the 2014 NFL Draft The future stars of the NFL

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-28-2014   #1841
matts290
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 265
Rep Power: 18116 matts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

No way O'Brien brings in Vick, he is the exact opposite of everything he seems to like in a QB and would be a bad fit for his offense. Vick may be a veteran, but he is set in his ways and there isn't much use in changing him at this point.
matts290 is offline  
Old 01-28-2014   #1842
kingtexan
Hall of Fame
 
kingtexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston, TX
Age: 46
Posts: 1,947
Rep Power: 34647 kingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by matts290 View Post
No way O'Brien brings in Vick, he is the exact opposite of everything he seems to like in a QB and would be a bad fit for his offense.
My idea was only contingent on IF he drafted JFF, who is also the opposite of OB's historical preference at QB. If he drafted JFF then a QB like Vick would be a natural fit because he would be changing his system to fit JFF, which would lend itself more to Vicks skill-set.
kingtexan is offline  
Old 01-28-2014   #1843
infantrycak
Lead Moderator
 
infantrycak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 47
Posts: 46,129
Rep Power: 331336 infantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtexan View Post
Ideal situation if we decided to draft him would be to bring in Vick for a two year deal and have JFF learn the NFL while Mike sings his swan song. I think Vick has a good year left in him, and could be a suitable mentor for JFF.
If you put mentor and Vick in the same sentence with anything other than "worst possible" you need to go give yourself a swirlie.

Suitable for what? - guaranteeing Manziel becomes a self-absorbed, uncoachable, low effort, prima donna?
__________________
The Art of War
infantrycak is offline  
Old 01-28-2014   #1844
kingtexan
Hall of Fame
 
kingtexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston, TX
Age: 46
Posts: 1,947
Rep Power: 34647 kingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
If you put mentor and Vick in the same sentence with anything other than "worst possible" you need to go give yourself a swirlie.

Suitable for what? - guaranteeing Manziel becomes a self-absorbed, uncoachable, prima donna?
Vick entered the league basically being what JFF is going to be ... extremely talented and extremely immature. Vick turned it around and although he still isnt the pro Manning is, he is light years ahead of where he was when he went down. I think he could be a positive influence, and may want that chance to go out being known as such.

We are most likely drafting Clowney, and if not trading the pick, so it really is just a discussion for the sake of discussing ... very little chance we ever find out if it works or not.
kingtexan is offline  
Old 01-28-2014   #1845
matts290
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 265
Rep Power: 18116 matts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtexan View Post
My idea was only contingent on IF he drafted JFF, who is also the opposite of OB's historical preference at QB. If he drafted JFF then a QB like Vick would be a natural fit because he would be changing his system to fit JFF, which would lend itself more to Vicks skill-set.
I don't see that many likenesses between the two, so I don't think bringing in Vick would really help Manziel out at all...other than having his favorite childhood player on the same team with him.

If Manziel were to come in and sit behind a veteran for a year, I would much prefer a pocket passer who can help develop that part of Johnny's game and teach him things that a guy like Vick has never grasped in his entire career.
matts290 is offline  
Old 01-28-2014   #1846
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
 
Mr teX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Everyone Wants The Throne
Posts: 7,726
Rep Power: 94100 Mr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtexan View Post
I think Keenum stays as a back-up. Bring in Vick on a discount, as I doubt there will be many teams fighting for him to come in as a starter. His style is similar to what people expect out of JFF and he can show JFF what NOT to do and how he had to change his game to fit the league.

I would prefer we trade the pick, or take Clowney if he blows everyone away at the combine and in interviews, but if we take JFF I think this idea could be a good fit.
JFF's game is modeled after Vick's but there's nothing Vick can teach him that any other capable coach can't teach him.

Besides, Vick's main issues stemmed from him being lazy, not spending enough time in the film room...largely b/c he didn't know how to study film. He simply thought his athletic abilities would get him by. That's the case for alot of guys like him coming out though. & any coach worth his weight in salt should be able to teach their qb's that.
Mr teX is offline  
Old 01-28-2014   #1847
kingtexan
Hall of Fame
 
kingtexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston, TX
Age: 46
Posts: 1,947
Rep Power: 34647 kingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by matts290 View Post
I don't see that many likenesses between the two, so I don't think bringing in Vick would really help Manziel out at all...other than having his favorite childhood player on the same team with him.

If Manziel were to come in and sit behind a veteran for a year, I would much prefer a pocket passer who can help develop that part of Johnny's game and teach him things that a guy like Vick has never grasped in his entire career.
JFF will never be a pocket passer. If we want to be honest and wanted to bring in what he has the potential to become, bring in Young (Steve not Vince) or Favre.
kingtexan is offline  
Sponsored links
Old 01-28-2014   #1848
matts290
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 265
Rep Power: 18116 matts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtexan View Post
We are most likely drafting Clowney, and if not trading the pick
Trading our first overall pick is one of the least likely things we do...trading out of 1.1 just doesn't happen in the NFL. As much as members love to dream up this awesome scenario where we get our "3000 points" and stack up on early round talent, history suggest that trading out of the 1.1 pick is very unlikely to happen.
matts290 is offline  
Old 01-28-2014   #1849
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
 
Mr teX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Everyone Wants The Throne
Posts: 7,726
Rep Power: 94100 Mr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtexan View Post
JFF will never be a pocket passer. If we want to be honest and wanted to bring in what he has the potential to become, bring in Young (Steve not Vince) or Favre.
Both those guys have way more arm talent than JFF will ever have..
Mr teX is offline  
Old 01-28-2014   #1850
kingtexan
Hall of Fame
 
kingtexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston, TX
Age: 46
Posts: 1,947
Rep Power: 34647 kingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Both those guys have way more arm talent than JFF will ever have..
I am not sure that is true on either front. On accuracy I seriously disagree, as I have seen JFF make some extremely tough throws with dead-on accuracy. As it relates to arm strength then yeah maybe not up there with Favre, but probably comparable to Young.
kingtexan is offline  
Old 01-28-2014   #1851
Stemp
Brew Master
 
Stemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Temple, TX
Section: Sec 118 Row H
Age: 37
Posts: 7,117
Rep Power: 46692 Stemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtexan View Post
Vick entered the league basically being what JFF is going to be ... extremely talented and extremely immature. Vick turned it around and although he still isnt the pro Manning is, he is light years ahead of where he was when he went down. I think he could be a positive influence, and may want that chance to go out being known as such.
Vick never went to a specialist and worked to improve his footwork and delivery. JFF maybe come off bit immature in the media, but reports are he's a hard worker in the film and training rooms and is extremely coachable.
Stemp is offline  
Old 01-28-2014   #1852
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
 
Mr teX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Everyone Wants The Throne
Posts: 7,726
Rep Power: 94100 Mr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtexan View Post
I am not sure that is true on either front. On accuracy I seriously disagree, as I have seen JFF make some extremely tough throws with dead-on accuracy. As it relates to arm strength then yeah maybe not up there with Favre, but probably comparable to Young.
Lol....you're comparing a few passes a kid has made in college to a guy in Steve Young who's regarded as one of if not the the most accurate qb ever?

Favre...there's not any comparison in any shape or form other than both are regarded as gunslinger types....
Mr teX is offline  
Old 01-28-2014   #1853
matts290
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 265
Rep Power: 18116 matts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtexan View Post
JFF will never be a pocket passer. If we want to be honest and wanted to bring in what he has the potential to become, bring in Young (Steve not Vince) or Favre.
Still, even though Manziel will never be a pure pocket passer, I think it would be much more beneficial for him to learn from a veteran that is more of that mold, since staying and throwing in the pocket is one of his weaknesses. A guy like Matt Cassell or Josh McCown, while not stars themselves, have been in the league for a long time and have been around some of the best...I would much prefer someone of that nature to pass down wisdom to Johnny than a guy like Vick who never really grasped the finer parts of playing Quarterback in the NFL.
matts290 is offline  
Old 01-28-2014   #1854
Stemp
Brew Master
 
Stemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Temple, TX
Section: Sec 118 Row H
Age: 37
Posts: 7,117
Rep Power: 46692 Stemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Lol....you're comparing a few passes a kid has made in college....
Highly ironic coming from you.
Stemp is offline  
Old 01-28-2014   #1855
kingtexan
Hall of Fame
 
kingtexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston, TX
Age: 46
Posts: 1,947
Rep Power: 34647 kingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Lol....you're comparing a few passes a kid has made in college to a guy in Steve Young who's regarded as one of if not the the most accurate qb ever?

Favre...there's not any comparison in any shape or form other than both are regarded as gunslinger types....
We are only talking about playing style and potential. JFF has shown nothing in the pros, as he has yet to become one. National media experts and former players have compared his style to both Young and Favre, but again we wont know until he takes the NFL field. Brett was more of a pocket passer in college, and ended up playing more like JFF does now in the pros. Anything can change, anything can happen.
kingtexan is offline  
Old 01-28-2014   #1856
kingtexan
Hall of Fame
 
kingtexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston, TX
Age: 46
Posts: 1,947
Rep Power: 34647 kingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by matts290 View Post
Still, even though Manziel will never be a pure pocket passer, I think it would be much more beneficial for him to learn from a veteran that is more of that mold, since staying and throwing in the pocket is one of his weaknesses. A guy like Matt Cassell or Josh McCown, while not stars themselves, have been in the league for a long time and have been around some of the best...I would much prefer someone of that nature to pass down wisdom to Johnny than a guy like Vick who never really grasped the finer parts of playing Quarterback in the NFL.
If we are going to sign a pure pocket passing veteran I would prefer we draft Bortles or Carr or another QB that shares that style and ability, to then be able to maximize their potential.
kingtexan is offline  
Old 01-28-2014   #1857
matts290
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 265
Rep Power: 18116 matts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respectedmatts290 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtexan View Post
If we are going to sign a pure pocket passing veteran I would prefer we draft Bortles or Carr or another QB that shares that style and ability, to then be able to maximize their potential.
In the event that we do sign a veteran QB, it should in no way effect who we draft...you don't pick your QB from the draft based on some place holder you have on the roster. You draft the best QB you can, no matter how their skill set matches up with other QBs on the roster.
matts290 is offline  
Old 01-28-2014   #1858
infantrycak
Lead Moderator
 
infantrycak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 47
Posts: 46,129
Rep Power: 331336 infantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
JFF's game is modeled after Vick's but there's nothing Vick can teach him that any other capable coach can't teach him.

Besides, Vick's main issues stemmed from him being lazy, not spending enough time in the film room...largely b/c he didn't know how to study film. He simply thought his athletic abilities would get him by. That's the case for alot of guys like him coming out though. & any coach worth his weight in salt should be able to teach their qb's that.
Correct on the problems.

I'd say Vick has had some very good coaching and absolutely none of it has stuck. The guy (and his tongue wagging follower) can't learn the most basic of peewee coaching such as tucking the MF'ng ball. That's not on the coaches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stemp View Post
JFF maybe come off bit immature in the media, but reports are he's a hard worker in the film and training rooms and is extremely coachable.
Then why can't he learn something so simple as tucking the ball?
__________________
The Art of War
infantrycak is offline  
Old 01-28-2014   #1859
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
 
Mr teX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Everyone Wants The Throne
Posts: 7,726
Rep Power: 94100 Mr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtexan View Post
We are only talking about playing style and potential. JFF has shown nothing in the pros, as he has yet to become one. National media experts and former players have compared his style to both Young and Favre, but again we wont know until he takes the NFL field. Brett was more of a pocket passer in college, and ended up playing more like JFF does now in the pros. Anything can change, anything can happen.
yes, I'll grant you and everyone else who believes in him that....anything can happen.....
Mr teX is offline  
Old 01-28-2014   #1860
kingtexan
Hall of Fame
 
kingtexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston, TX
Age: 46
Posts: 1,947
Rep Power: 34647 kingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by matts290 View Post
In the event that we do sign a veteran QB, it should in no way effect who we draft...you don't pick your QB from the draft based on some place holder you have on the roster. You draft the best QB you can, no matter how their skill set matches up with other QBs on the roster.
I agree and really the statement should have been reversed. If we draft a mobile QB who is reactionary and extends plays, having a statue show him the ropes may not be the best idea. Same goes if we draft a pocket guy, we don't want Vick tutoring him IMO.
kingtexan is offline  
Closed Thread

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > Football Talk > College Football & the 2014 NFL Draft
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger