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Old 01-10-2014   #1461
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Logan Thomas? He's the poster boy for guys who have NFL size and nothing else.
He was horrible this year.
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Old 01-10-2014   #1462
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Default Re: Manziel

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He was horrible this year.
Horrible is putting it nicely........ I kind of think he can be fixed, but its going to take a lot of work. Anything before using a 4th on him is too soon.
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Old 01-10-2014   #1463
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by kingtexan View Post
Here's the thing. No QB in the class is worth 1.1, but if you were going to take a flyer at 1.1 the only one that would make sense is Manziel. He is the only one that could potentially be a game changing superstar IMO. The others may turn out to be decent QB's, but you don't take that chance unless you are betting on greatness.
Aren't you the guy that spammed in every thread calling Bridgewater a cross dresser?

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Horrible is putting it nicely........ I kind of think he can be fixed, but its going to take a lot of work. Anything before using a 4th on him is too soon.
Dude is horrible every year. Wouldn't take him as an UDFA.

Last edited by TexansSeminole; 01-10-2014 at 11:47 PM.
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Old 01-11-2014   #1464
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
I wish someone would post non running/scraming highlights. That's the problem, his scrambling highlights are so exciting that people tend to ignore the rest of his abilities.
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Cut out the screenshots but stuff like this sometimes makes me think the offensive drop-off won't be so bad. Kenny Hill seems Manziel-esque to me but a pro style guy like Kyle Allen will have a field day with a WR corps like the one we have in store. I see Allen and even Hill throwing a strike to Walker or dumping off to Labhart without the jumping around.
There won't be a drop off, the system is gonna ensure that. I'll do u 1 better, if the next guy behind JFF is more patient in the pocket, he'll probably put up the same numbers if not better...
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Old 01-11-2014   #1465
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by matts290 View Post
I provided the screenshots to give a visual aid to what I was describing, no need to get condescending about it.

This from the guy telling me where the RT might be drafted?

And Manziel looked right to Labhart as soon as he received the snap Nope and Labhart leaped up into the air Yep, I guess to sell the fake more, but it wasn't necessary at that point because the safety had already began back peddling which left Labhart wide open...a WR screen doesn't involve the QB looking in the WRs direction for >3 seconds, its a play where the QB gets the ball out of his hands quick.

The reason the DB never closed was that JM never looked that way.

This play is a staple in the Aggies offense, and they run several variations of it, most often with Mike Evans as the X receiver and Labhart in the slot to clear out the middle...but that is neither here nor there.

I'm fully aware of their Offensive tendencies, the point remains that JM didn't look at Labhart, which is why the DB wasn't biting. I've seen Case run the same play at Cougar High.

The whole point I was trying to illustrate is that this amazing improvisational plays will not succeed at the next level.

Too many examples in NFL history that show otherwise.

Guys in the NFL are too disciplined to let a QB jump over them, bounce off his own lineman and then run back out of the pile to hit wide open receiver.

Sure, cherry-pick one sequesnce that nobody else has done and you'd be correct. Take out even one element (like the hurdled lineman) and today's mobile QBs, including Luck manage to do these things weekly.

Does that mean I think all Johnny can do is make insane "lucky" plays? No, I have seen Manziel stand in a pocket and deliver some pinpoint accurate throws all over the field, so I know he has the ability, he just isn't consistent enough with it. Fully Agree

In order for Johnny to be a successful QB in the NFL he is going to have to get better at scanning the entire field and going through all of his progressions. Granted, Sumlin's offense rarely calls for a full field read and the first and hot read are always dictated from the sideline.
First read, yes. Hot read, not always. Johnny needs to make his progression reads faster (par for NFL transition)

The point remains it is something he will have to get better at because he will not get away with making one read and then tucking the ball and running in the NFL. You keep saying he makes only one read and runs, the evidence THIS season says otherwise.

It is obviously something he can improve once he gets into a NFL system, but as it stands Manziel does not exceed at progressing through his reads and making a throw. Does he do it at times? Of course, he has shown that he does have the ability, but has not mastered it yet. Agreed

Every QB in this draft has things he has to work on, and I just thought I would share one play that I think symbolizes Manziel's biggest weakness. Again, I am an Aggie, I want this guy to succeed more than anyone but that doesn't mean I think he is a perfect players. I think he's far from perfect, but has more ability than most realize. I think your "illustrative" play is a poor example of what you're trying to show. 2:23 on this clip from the same game might be more on point
The irony here is that if you'd asked me LAST year about JM, I'd have agreed on the run-too-soon mentality. The work he's put in and his decreased tendency to run show what great strides he's made. He set out to prove to NFL scouts that he could be a better pocket passer. For the most part, he's succeeded.

BTW - Save the "I'm an Aggie" part, I get it. My father went to A&M when there was this guy named Paul Bryant coaching there. I've followed the program since the 80's.
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Old 01-11-2014   #1466
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Default Re: Manziel

This from the guy telling me where the RT might be drafted?


Huh? How was me mentioning the fact that Cedric was a first round draft pick condescending? After all he did receive a first round grade from the NFL board so I think my statement was fairly factual.

The reason the DB never closed was that JM never looked that way.

I'm fully aware of their Offensive tendencies, the point remains that JM didn't look at Labhart, which is why the DB wasn't biting. I've seen Case run the same play at Cougar High.

I really don't know what you are seeing here, it is obvious Manziel looked Labhart's way...Labhart is number #15 by the way, maybe you are thinking of Walker?



Too many examples in NFL history that show otherwise.


I get you on this, guys like Favre were amazing at crazy improvisational plays, maybe my statement was off base. I am sure if Manziel is to be a great NFL QB a lot of it will have to do with his ability to make plays in unconventional ways with his feet, that is what makes him attractive. I think I was getting too lost in the point I was trying to prove and forgot what makes Manziel great is the ability to make those plays.

You keep saying he makes only one read and runs, the evidence THIS season says otherwise.
I am not saying this is all he does, there has been plenty of examples this year of him making multiple reads and staying in the pocket. My whole point is that he still shows a bad habit at times to not do this, and make one quick read and take off. Does he do it on every single play? No, thats not what I am saying at all, just contending that he needs to be more consistent with going through his progression.

BTW - Save the "I'm an Aggie" part, I get it. My father went to A&M when there was this guy named Paul Bryant coaching there. I've followed the program since the 80's.

I only mentioned it for two reasons. One because I have noticed a trend on this board and others than many people criticizing Manziel are A&M haters or UT/Baylor etc fans. And two, because I wanted to highlight the fact that being an Aggie I have seen every snap Manziel has taken, 50% of them in person at Kyle Field...in no way did I mean it as bragging, just thought it was worth mentioned.
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Old 01-11-2014   #1467
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by matts290 View Post
This from the guy telling me where the RT might be drafted?


BTW - Save the "I'm an Aggie" part, I get it. My father went to A&M when there was this guy named Paul Bryant coaching there. I've followed the program since the 80's.

I only mentioned it for two reasons. One because I have noticed a trend on this board and others than many people criticizing Manziel are A&M haters or UT/Baylor etc fans. And two, because I wanted to highlight the fact that being an Aggie I have seen every snap Manziel has taken, 50% of them in person at Kyle Field...in no way did I mean it as bragging, just thought it was worth mentioned.
Fitting that the last memories of the current Kyle Field all of us students have is of Johnny chucking it around on Mississippi State. I think it'll feel a little strange at first next year with the Phase I of the renovation done.
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Old 01-11-2014   #1468
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Errant Hothy View Post
I wrote the damn question, and since almost a 1000 posts in this thread have been about drafting Manziel at 1-1 I thought it was implied.

But I'll clarify if you need me to.

At 5'10" can you draft Manziel at 1-1?

Happy now?
Let me clarify, Russell Wilson is 5'10" would you draft him today at 1-1? I think JF will measure closer to 6'0" than 5'10". Me personally I don't draft JF 1-1 but it has nothing to w/ his height and everything to do with Bortles and Bridgewater still on the board.

Feel Better?
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Old 01-11-2014   #1469
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
I recently went back and watched a bunch of film on both TB and Manziel .... and despite the lack of height , Manziel looks to be the better of the two.


Flawless mechanics , great footwork , accuracy , elusiveness in the pocket , reads defenses better and the work ethic to go with it. The only thing Bridgewater has in his favor is the height & the fact that he runs a more pro style offense when I compare the side by side & you cant forget about the disparity in level of competition ....

I had not been of the mindset to take Manziel over Bridgewater prior to this comparison but I'd be comfortable with doing so now.
Let meunderstand this, are you saying manziel has flawless mechanics,great footwork,and accuracy and reads defenses better or are you saying that about Bridgewater cuz I'm confused?
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Old 01-11-2014   #1470
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Let meunderstand this, are you saying manziel has flawless mechanics,great footwork,and accuracy and reads defenses better or are you saying that about Bridgewater cuz I'm confused?
Manziel. His mechanics are flawless in the pocket ....

Bridgewater has a loop in his throwing motion and holds the ball chest high on many occasions.
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Old 01-11-2014   #1471
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Manziel. His mechanics are flawless in the pocket ....

Bridgewater has a loop in his throwing motion and holds the ball chest high on many occasions.
Flawless in the pocket huh? So I guess when the ball is down by his waist,that doesn't count as mechanics,right? This iis probably one of the silliest posts I've seen on this board. Footwork in the pocket? Did you see the screenshot by the other poster when his feet were parallel to the los,but that's flawless? That's terrible. Maybe you don't know,but you aim you feet in the direction your throwing. Your feet shouldn't ever be side by side,not even on a flair pass.
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Old 01-11-2014   #1472
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Default Re: Manziel

http://youtu.be/SNbf4ImD-ig
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Old 01-11-2014   #1473
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Default Re: Manziel

George Whitfield will have Manziel as prepared for this draft than any other QB I believe. If he can stay out of trouble and out of the clubs I really feel like he'll be in the discussion for #1 overall. O'Brien comes across as the kind of guy who has a very in tune BS meter though so it'll be interesting to see how he looks at him during the process. Oh, to be a fly on the wall.

Someone already posted on the A&M board that O'Brien at this point and McNair like Bortles and Johnny respectively. That's not a surprise to anyone though. McNair in all fairness needs to let BOB make this decision along with Rick Smith. I understand the appeal of Manziel as an owner and I'm actually saying I don't see how we pass up on Johnny. But if that's not who BOB feels like is best for this team then it'll cause problems right off the bat within the organization.
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Old 01-11-2014   #1474
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Flawless in the pocket huh? So I guess when the ball is down by his waist,that doesn't count as mechanics,right? This iis probably one of the silliest posts I've seen on this board. Footwork in the pocket? Did you see the screenshot by the other poster when his feet were parallel to the los,but that's flawless? That's terrible. Maybe you don't know,but you aim you feet in the direction your throwing. Your feet shouldn't ever be side by side,not even on a flair pass.
You can find instances of just about any QB's mechanics breaking down .... but in general , Manziel has superior mechanics to Bridgewater. When he's in a clean pocket , his footwork , ball position & throwing motion are very much like that of ..... Peyton Manning.

Until things break down , Manziel keeps the ball high and tight , yes , when he starts running around his mechanics go to sh!t .... which is why I specified in the pocket.

Hey , if Bridgewater or Bortles is your guy , that's fine with me .... I hadn't made a decision on any of the three until very recently & I'm no A&M homer .... at this point , I think Manziel is probably the better of the three.
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Old 01-11-2014   #1475
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Let me clarify, Russell Wilson is 5'10" would you draft him today at 1-1? I think JF will measure closer to 6'0" than 5'10". Me personally I don't draft JF 1-1 but it has nothing to w/ his height and everything to do with Bortles and Bridgewater still on the board.

Feel Better?
Do you like Bridgewater better than Manziel?
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Old 01-11-2014   #1476
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
Aren't you the guy that spammed in every thread calling Bridgewater a cross dresser?.
Nope
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Old 01-11-2014   #1477
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
There was no doubt in my mind that there were people here who wanted us to draft Johnny Manziel. I knew they were here. It makes sense. He's obviously talented. We need a talented QB... no, we need a special QB & while Bridgewater is very good, he's not special.

So I get it.


But at 1-1 overall..... interesting. I don't want to draft Manziel, much less at 1-1. However, it makes more sense than drafting Bridgewater at 1-1. Like you said, Manziel has the ability to be great. But you're swinging for a homerun & some people just won't understand it.
I'm not advocating taking him at #1, but IF we are going to take a QB in that spot ... it has to be Manziel. He is the only one who could prove to be worth it. I would rather see us grab Matthews or Clowney, or better yet trade down a couple spots with Cleveland and pick up an extra 1st round pick.

However, like Eric Winston said on 610 yesterday, JFF is going to get someone fired. Either the GM that takes him, or the GM that doesn't. Pick him and what do you have to lose? If he doesn't work out in two years you are picking #1 again and can grab another prospect.
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Old 01-11-2014   #1478
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
Me too.

It's funny how gun shy I've gotten after the Carr debacle. I don't trust the F.O. to pick the right guy. Hopefully, several of these QBs are "the right guy", so we can't miss with any of them.
Count me in this group

This is probably why I don't like any of the QB's in this yrs draft.
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Old 01-11-2014   #1479
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by kingtexan View Post
I'm not advocating taking him at #1, but IF we are going to take a QB in that spot ... it has to be Manziel. He is the only one who could prove to be worth it. I would rather see us grab Matthews or Clowney, or better yet trade down a couple spots with Cleveland and pick up an extra 1st round pick.

However, like Eric Winston said on 610 yesterday, JFF is going to get someone fired. Either the GM that takes him, or the GM that doesn't. Pick him and what do you have to lose? If he doesn't work out in two years you are picking #1 again and can grab another prospect.
That's not exactly specific to Manziel. You could say that about whoever we end up with #1.
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Old 01-11-2014   #1480
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
That's not exactly specific to Manziel. You could say that about whoever we end up with #1.
I agree, and was just quoting Eric Winston.

I do see where it could apply more to the QB position.
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