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Old 01-09-2014   #1401
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
I also love the fact that none of the anti-Manziel crowd have been willing to engage me on my prior post. Manziel's deep ball numbers are astounding and when combined with the fact that his numbers from the pocket are almost identical to his overall numbers, you really start to see that the arguments used against him about "constantly relying on his playmaking abilities" really are grasping at straws. It is what leads myself and others to conclude that people choose to hate on Johnny Football either because they just don't like him and/or don't like Texas A&M.
The anti-Manziel crowd will never see him for what he really is. Just like the Manziel lovers never will either.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. Both sides have points and both sides will continue to make ridiculous arguments to avoid acknowledging his strengths (anti) or weaknesses (lovers).
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Old 01-09-2014   #1402
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
Well the point that you, myself, and others in this thread are trying to make is he has shown some serious improvements from last year to this year, and I can only imagine that when he starts receiving pro coaching he will improve even more. If he can learn to taper down a little bit, stay in the pocket a little more (which anyone that watched any of Johnny Football last year and this year will tell you he has improved markedly on), then that playmaking ability of his becomes a serious benefit for his team. He has to continue learning not to rely on it so much and after this last season, I very much believe he will continue to learn to hang in the pocket longer and only bolt to use his playmaking ability as a last resort.
I've just now come on to this thread, so y'all cut me some slack if this has already been gone over and beaten to death.

I'm not a Manziel hater. On the contrary, if we get stuck with the top pick, (which you all know by now that I'm hoping like hell we can trade it away) I'm actually leaning to him over Bridgewater. I have no issues whatsoever with what he does on the field.

But I do have character concerns, in particular, hitting the bottle when he gets stressed out. Now, is this alcohol issue just a myth that has been debunked? And if not, why isn't that showstopper all by itself? Here we have a 21-year old with just 2 years in college. Why shouldn't his maturity, or the lack of it, be part if the mix?
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Old 01-09-2014   #1403
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I guess it would of been better IYO if he had just thrown an incomplete pass. Dam him for turning nothing into something.

Post reeks of fan boy.
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Old 01-09-2014   #1404
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Errant Hothy View Post
Manziel threw more screens and passes less than 5 yards then Bridgewater did last season.

But it's draft season so the facts, logic and reason all take a back seat.
45.85% of Manziel's passes were thrown for less than 10 yards. 48.34% of Bortles' passes were thrown less than 10 yards. 42.55% of Bridgewater's passes were thrown less than 10 yards.

Did Bridgewater throw short less? Yes. Did Manziel check down more often than average? Not even close. Then you need to go take a look at his medium and deep ball throws.

Yep, fact, logic, and reason definitely took a back seat with you in this case.

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
The anti-Manziel crowd will never see him for what he really is. Just like the Manziel lovers never will either.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. Both sides have points and both sides will continue to make ridiculous arguments to avoid acknowledging his strengths (anti) or weaknesses (lovers).
Truth. I agree with you entirely. Yes, I am pro-Manziel. But research my posts throughout this thread, and you will find the instances in which I have "bashed" Johnny Football as well. Is he the next great thing? No one knows. Is he a guarantee? Not even close. But is he worth taking a gamble on? I very much believe that he is.

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I've just now come on to this thread, so y'all cut me some slack if this has already been gone over and beaten to death.

I'm not a Manziel hater. On the contrary, if we get stuck with the top pick, (which you all know by now that I'm hoping like hell we can trade it away) I'm actually leaning to him over Bridgewater. I have no issues whatsoever with what he does on the field.

But I do have character concerns, in particular, hitting the bottle when he gets stressed out. Now, is this alcohol issue just a myth that has been debunked? And if not, why isn't that showstopper all by itself? Here we have a 21-year old with just 2 years in college. Why shouldn't his maturity, or the lack of it, be part if the mix?
Great post, Marcus. I agree with everything you have said.

Personally, I'm undecided on Manziel or Bridgewater. Prior to the Duke game, I wouldn't have taken Manziel any higher than 20. But after watching his leadership and seeing his will to win in that game, I became sold on Johnny Football.

Like I said above, he is definitely not a guarantee. But it would scare me to death if he ended up with Jacksonville and we had to play against him twice a year. We'll see what happens.
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Old 01-09-2014   #1405
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by htownfan32 View Post
Almost all the highlights two pages back were from his freshman year. Let's do more recent stuff. The only egregious jump ball was the one during the Alabama game.

I'm not pushing JF, (my drafts indicate I'm very much a Bridgewater guy) but let's be honest with our appraisal of him.

These are examples of plays he's made all year, and it's obvious that he has shown progression from last year's constant scrambling.
Highlight clips in general suck for evaluation because it doesn't reflect what a QB will do 99% of the time in the NFL.

You could find QBs who won't sniff getting drafted hitting a receiver with 5yds on the CB for TDs in highlight packages, doesn't make them special.

In both of these GIFs, not sure JFF mechanics are particularly great, especially the last one.

Shows some strength I get to lob the rainbow up off the back foot.
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Old 01-09-2014   #1406
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
45.85% of Manziel's passes were thrown for less than 10 yards. 48.34% of Bortles' passes were thrown less than 10 yards. 42.55% of Bridgewater's passes were thrown less than 10 yards.

Did Bridgewater throw short less? Yes. Did Manziel check down more often than average? Not even close. Then you need to go take a look at his medium and deep ball throws.

Yep, fact, logic, and reason definitely took a back seat with you in this case.



Truth. I agree with you entirely. Yes, I am pro-Manziel. But research my posts throughout this thread, and you will find the instances in which I have "bashed" Johnny Football as well. Is he the next great thing? No one knows. Is he a guarantee? Not even close. But is he worth taking a gamble on? I very much believe that he is.



Great post, Marcus. I agree with everything you have said.

Personally, I'm undecided on Manziel or Bridgewater. Prior to the Duke game, I wouldn't have taken Manziel any higher than 20. But after watching his leadership and seeing his will to win in that game, I became sold on Johnny Football.

Like I said above, he is definitely not a guarantee. But it would scare me to death if he ended up with Jacksonville and we had to play against him twice a year. We'll see what happens.
Difference between 10 and 5 there big guy. To me a check down would be a screen type pass, ie a RB still behind the line of scrimmage,or a pass of less than 5 yards. If you disagree with that definition of check down fine, but using that as a guide Manziel was at 46.85% to Bridgewater's 42.55%.

I also never said that either checked down more than average, just that Bridgewater did certainly not check down all day as the poster I initially quoted stated.
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Old 01-09-2014   #1407
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Errant Hothy View Post
Difference between 10 and 5 there big guy. To me a check down would be a screen type pass, ie a RB still behind the line of scrimmage,or a pass of less than 5 yards. If you disagree with that definition of check down fine, but using that as a guide Manziel was at 46.85% to Bridgewater's 42.55%.

I also never said that either checked down more than average, just that Bridgewater did certainly not check down all day as the poster I initially quoted stated.
Technically, a screen pass is not a checkdown.

To "check down" means you have to look at the field and have the option of throwing a medium or long pass but because of the coverage, you "check down" to a shorter, higher percentage pass.

A screen pass, otoh, is planned from the outset as a short pass. There's no other option. If it's not open, you've got to throw it away.
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Old 01-09-2014   #1408
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Technically, a screen pass is not a checkdown.

To "check down" means you have to look at the field and have the option of throwing a medium or long pass but because of the coverage, you "check down" to a shorter, higher percentage pass.

A screen pass, otoh, is planned from the outset as a short pass. There's no other option. If it's not open, you've got to throw it away.
I agree, but using this article as our guide

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cf...back-conundrum

Which states "The Ďzonesí in the chart represent where the QB threw the ball on the field, that is exactly the spot the receiver caught the ball. This is to make sure yards after the catch donít influence our opinion on the QBs."

And to refute the idea that Bridgewater checked down all day as somebody previously posted, I just proved that Manziel threw more to the screen and 1-5 yard zones than Bridgewater. I would think that if we were going to define check down passes, those 2 zones would be the best choices to use.
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Old 01-09-2014   #1409
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
I've just now come on to this thread, so y'all cut me some slack if this has already been gone over and beaten to death.

I'm not a Manziel hater. On the contrary, if we get stuck with the top pick, (which you all know by now that I'm hoping like hell we can trade it away) I'm actually leaning to him over Bridgewater. I have no issues whatsoever with what he does on the field.

But I do have character concerns, in particular, hitting the bottle when he gets stressed out. Now, is this alcohol issue just a myth that has been debunked? And if not, why isn't that showstopper all by itself? Here we have a 21-year old with just 2 years in college. Why shouldn't his maturity, or the lack of it, be part if the mix?
I am trying to stay out of this thread due to obvious bias, but I would like to make a correction for the record. Excuse me if you mean playing time, but Manziel was an early entry, entered the spring semester of his sr. year in hs. He has completed 3 years of college at this point. Since you were mentioning maturity issues, I figured playing time wasn't the important part.

Anyway, one part of me would love to see us draft him. He would be polarizing for sure. Aggies are swearing to switch allegiances from the cowgirls to us if we draft him. I am sure we would piss off longhorn fans to no end. Especially since we passed on Vince. He would bring a ton of press and attention - not sure if that is good or bad.
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Old 01-09-2014   #1410
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Default Re: Manziel

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Post reeks of fan boy.
Like I said. I was just being a smart ass. And I'm no fan boy. I don't like any player because of where they were born or what school they go to. I don't get all full of hate because some player gets too much air time on ESPN. I like Manziel. I like Bridgewater I like Bortles. I even like Clowney. I'm cool with any of those guys at number one.
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Old 01-09-2014   #1411
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
I also love the fact that none of the anti-Manziel crowd have been willing to engage me on my prior post. Manziel's deep ball numbers are astounding and when combined with the fact that his numbers from the pocket are almost identical to his overall numbers, you really start to see that the arguments used against him about "constantly relying on his playmaking abilities" really are grasping at straws. It is what leads myself and others to conclude that people choose to hate on Johnny Football either because they just don't like him and/or don't like Texas A&M.
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Well the point that you, myself, and others in this thread are trying to make is he has shown some serious improvements from last year to this year, and I can only imagine that when he starts receiving pro coaching he will improve even more. If he can learn to taper down a little bit, stay in the pocket a little more (which anyone that watched any of Johnny Football last year and this year will tell you he has improved markedly on), then that playmaking ability of his becomes a serious benefit for his team. He has to continue learning not to rely on it so much and after this last season, I very much believe he will continue to learn to hang in the pocket longer and only bolt to use his playmaking ability as a last resort.
First off let me say I am in no way "anti-Manziel". I am a lifelong fightin Texas Aggie and graduate of class of 2012, so I am not a hater who is just picking on Manziel or Texas A&M...I have loved watching Manziel the last two years. However like I mentioned I am also an objective football fan so I try to look at things from every angle.

The fact is plays like I mentioned in my first post have happened very often this season, and they bring up what I believe are a lot of bad habits in Manziel's game when discussing him as potential NFL QB. Often times instead of going through his progressions and finding an open man, Johnny will make one or two quick reads and go straight to improvising. This is something I have gathered from watching every single snap he has taken at A&M plus more rewatching of the tape in recent weeks.

Is this something he can work on and improve at the next level? Of course it is, but the point is, it is still a valid argument because we are dealing with the facts layer before us, not what the potential future might hold. Johnny has tons of natural ability, huge hands, quick, fast, winning mentality, killer instinct and a downright great football player. Still, there is a lot of things he needs to improve on as a quarterback at the next level. Bad habits often die hard, and Manziel many never be able to become a disciplined pocket passer, which is totally essential to be a great QB in the NFL.

A lot of people seem to knock his arm strength, which I disagree with 100%. I, like you, think he can throw a very nice deep ball with plenty of velocity. I think the perception that he has a weak arm comes from the fact that he rarely steps up into the pocket, sets his feet, and delivers a strike down the field. Often a lot of his deep throws come while running backwards from pressure or on the run without squaring his shoulders and setting his feet.

Overall I like Manziel a lot, and the improvements he made tom 2012 to 2013 in his passing ability show that he is willing to do what it takes to succeed, but I still hold the opinion that in the most dire of situations this season Manziel would sometimes throw what he learned out the window and start darting around hoping for a receiver to work back to him and get wide open. I wish him tons of luck and hope he succeeds wherever he might end up going, even if it is to divisional rivals Jacksonville. If we do happen to take him at #1 overall, I can't say I will agree with it, but I will still be cheering him on from day 1...but in my opinion we cannot pass up a much more polished product in Teddy Bridgewater. Still if the coaching staff, Smith and O'Brien come to the conclusion that Manziel is the better pick at 1.1, I will support the decision and trust that they may know a little more about football than me.
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Old 01-09-2014   #1412
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
My bad. I misunderstood your point. But I do believe that Randall Cunningham would be Manziel's peak potential. And that is not a bad thing, look up his stats when he was healthy.
Based on what, exactly? Certainly not a comparison of what they did in College. Link

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Take his most recent performance in the Chick fil A bowl, the play where he jumped over a downline man for no apparent reason, and and the darts back out of the mess to lob a wide open pass to Labhart. It was an incredible play, almost as incredible as the Alabama half fumble TD to Swope play, and as an Aggie I scream and cheer every time he does something like that...but as a sensible football fan I know these type of plays will not work in the NFL..
I'd suggest you go back and re-watch the play.
A) Labhart was "camping" at the 19-20-yd line (19 is LoS), wide-open for approx 3 seconds while Johnny progressed from his right to left. Labhart is the only receiver to JM's left.
B) If JM throws to Labhart initially, you might get a 5-yd gain, not a TD. The DB is playing off, but not unaware.
C) #82 was creating pressure from the back on JM's right side, collapsing the pocket forward.
D) JM jumped over #52 trying to make a run up the middle, instead the guy catches his ankle and slows him down. As additional pursuit closes in the middle / left, JM breaks back and left.
E) The CB covering Labhart releases only AFTER Johnny gets his release to the left post-jumping #52.

So, this isn't a "clean pocket", jump a guy for no reason scenario.

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Manziel threw more screens and passes less than 5 yards then Bridgewater did last season.

But it's draft season so the facts, logic and reason all take a back seat.
He also threw more deep balls, more accurately. Did you have a point?
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Old 01-09-2014   #1413
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Default Re: Manziel

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He also threw more deep balls, more accurately. Did you have a point?
Yes, that the idiot who said Bridgewater did nothing but check down all game is just that, an idiot.

Beyond that, not really. I might prefer Bridgewater, but I wouldn't be anything but excited (and slightly nervous) if we drafted Manziel. And only nervous because either Manziel is going to be one of those guys to break the mold or a flame out. And I have no idea which.
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Old 01-09-2014   #1414
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Errant Hothy View Post
Yes, that the idiot who said Bridgewater did nothing but check down all game is just that, an idiot.

Beyond that, not really. I might prefer Bridgewater, but I wouldn't be anything but excited (and slightly nervous) if we drafted Manziel. And only nervous because either Manziel is going to be one of those guys to break the mold or a flame out. And I have no idea which.
Me too.

It's funny how gun shy I've gotten after the Carr debacle. I don't trust the F.O. to pick the right guy. Hopefully, several of these QBs are "the right guy", so we can't miss with any of them.
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Old 01-09-2014   #1415
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Default Re: Manziel

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Me too.

It's funny how gun shy I've gotten after the Carr debacle. I don't trust the F.O. to pick the right guy. Hopefully, several of these QBs are "the right guy", so we can't miss with any of them.
I think this is our only hope.
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Old 01-09-2014   #1416
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
Me too.

It's funny how gun shy I've gotten after the Carr debacle. I don't trust the F.O. to pick the right guy. Hopefully, several of these QBs are "the right guy", so we can't miss with any of them.
GOT DAMN!! That mirrors my thoughts to a tee. I'm trying to get past it, but I can't. Scarred I guess.

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Old 01-09-2014   #1417
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Default Re: Manziel

I really don't know how anyone watches JFF and sees an NFL franchise QB day 1 or even year 1. His mechanics are bad. On long throws, you often see him swing his entire body into the pass just so he can reach the long distances, which makes me think he's covering up a slight lack of arm strength. It works in college, especially with a guy like Mike Evans around, but I don't see that working long-term in the NFL. Couple that with a guy who loves to dance around the pocket, and not keeping his eyes downfield, who skips progressions at the first sign of danger, and you have a lot of work to do to fix his game. Mentally and mechanically, I think he will take a few years to develop and should be considered a project guy.

2-1? Sure, would love to have him there, but not 1-1.
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Old 01-09-2014   #1418
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Default Re: Manziel

In all honesty Manziel should have stayed in school one more year to work on his pocket passing ability. While it is much better than last years (I say this having attended all the home games and watched all the away ones) one more year in college with another offseason with that QB guru of his (it obviously works, there is visible improvement) would prep him better for the NFL. He could be a great starter but his first year will be a little rough. As Dutchrudder stated, 2-1 - hell yes, I would take him. But 1-1? I dunno. I'm not enough of a gambling man for that.

We could trade back but hype will get him drafted much higher than he should be, which should be 1-20 to 2-5. but will be before 1-15 IMO.

Don't get me wrong - the two years I got to see him and this Aggie team play was unforgettable. But the NFL is a wholly different story.
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Old 01-09-2014   #1419
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
I'd suggest you go back and re-watch the play.
A) Labhart was "camping" at the 19-20-yd line (19 is LoS), wide-open for approx 3 seconds while Johnny progressed from his right to left. Labhart is the only receiver to JM's left.
B) If JM throws to Labhart initially, you might get a 5-yd gain, not a TD. The DB is playing off, but not unaware.
C) #82 was creating pressure from the back on JM's right side, collapsing the pocket forward.
D) JM jumped over #52 trying to make a run up the middle, instead the guy catches his ankle and slows him down. As additional pursuit closes in the middle / left, JM breaks back and left.
E) The CB covering Labhart releases only AFTER Johnny gets his release to the left post-jumping #52.

So, this isn't a "clean pocket", jump a guy for no reason scenario.
Oh lordy, gonna make be bust out the screenshots are ya?

A. First off the called play was a fake screen to Labhart in order to get Derel Walker open deep down the sideline. The fake worked, Manziel looked over to Labhart right after the snap, causing the safety to hesitate and let Walker get behind him, Walker also beat his DB off the line and had ample separation heading into the end zone.



I used yellow lines to demonstrate the amount of separation Walker had on both Safeties as well as the CB covering him. The safety on the top left has his hips facing way from Walker and is in no position to make a play, the second safety is 20+ yards away from Walker and the man covering him is 2 steps behind. Meanwhile Johnny is standing in a clean pocket with plenty of time to throw, instead he doesn't recognize the open Walker and took off up the middle. Side note; he has Labart wide open for a safety valve and a possible first down, and even has Evans coming across the middle with a step on his defender.

B) You are mostly correct, the Safety had his eyes towards Labhart because of the initial fake screen, but he was still very far off and a first down completion could have been made. Again notice in the next pic Manziel sees Evans coming open, but doesn't stick with him and takes off instead. Also notice in the below pic the aforementioned Derel Walker beating his guy off the LOS, #14 the CB has his hips towards the sideline while Walker has already began to streak towards the end zone



C) Not really. #92 was being blocked by potential first rounder Cedric Ogbuehi (who just announced he is staying for Sr season Whoop!) #92 starts flying towards the back to try outflank Cedric, but big Ogbuehi wasn't having none of that and just rotated with him and never lost contain. Take a look at the following picture. This shows the exact moment Johhny decided to take off...this pocket is the definition of clean, not a single defender within 5 feet of him. A pocket this clean will rarely be seen in the NFL, and Johnny regularly sees a pocket like this due to playing behind the best line in CFB the last 2 years.



D) I say he jumped a guy for no reason because he should have never taken off in the first place. Obvisouly the jump was a nifty move, but like you said the defender grabbed his ankle and the play would have been over with Johnny falling to the ground if he hadn't bounced off the back of big boy Jarvis Harrison.

E)There was never a DB covering Labhart, he was open in the flat from the get go and the safety didn't come down to pick him up, he came down because Johnny started to run and he was coming down to make a potential tackle like a safety is taught to do.

First picture below shows Labhart just sitting out in the flat with out a any DB covering him, the DB in the top right corner is turned around and chasing after Walker. In the second picture you can again see how wide open Labhart is, I circled him with a yellow circle because I feel like John Madden. The safety is has is eyes on Johnny and has broke coverage of Walker in the endzone because Johnny had just began to take off.





My whole point in rambling on about this one single play, is because it is something that I have seen happen pretty often the last two years. Johnny ends up making a play, but it isn't always the best play from the get go. Do you really think something like this would have happened in the NFL where he bounces off his own lineman and then runs all the way out of the mess? Not me, in the NFL this would have been a QB run for little gain and O'Brien would have been screaming at him because he had multiple guys open for positive gains.

Again, I love Johnny, and I think he has the potential to improve his bad habits at the next level, but we have to deal in the facts, not the hypothetical.

Last edited by matts290; 01-09-2014 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 01-09-2014   #1420
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by matts290 View Post
Oh lordy, gonna make be bust out the screenshots are ya?

A. First off the called play was a fake screen to Labhart in order to get Derel Walker open deep down the sideline. The fake worked, Manziel looked over to Labhart right after the snap, causing the safety to hesitate and let Walker get behind him, Walker also beat his DB off the line and had ample separation heading into the end zone.


I used yellow lines to demonstrate the amount of separation Walker had on both Safeties as well as the CB covering him. The safety on the top left has his hips facing way from Walker and is in no position to make a play, the second safety is 20+ yards away from Walker and the man covering him is 2 steps behind. Meanwhile Johnny is standing in a clean pocket with plenty of time to throw, instead he doesn't recognize the open Walker and took off up the middle. Side note; he has Labart wide open for a safety valve and a possible first down, and even has Evans coming across the middle with a step on his defender.

B) You are mostly correct, the Safety had his eyes towards Labhart because of the initial fake screen, but he was still very far off and a first down completion could have been made. Again notice in the next pic Manziel sees Evans coming open, but doesn't stick with him and takes off instead. Also notice in the below pic the aforementioned Derel Walker beating his guy off the LOS, #14 the CB has his hips towards the sideline while Walker has already began to streak towards the end zone


C) Not really. #92 was being blocked by potential first rounder Cedric Ogbuehi (who just announced he is staying for Sr season Whoop!) #92 starts flying towards the back to try outflank Cedric, but big Ogbuehi wasn't having none of that and just rotated with him and never lost contain. Take a look at the following picture. This shows the exact moment Johhny decided to take off...this pocket is the definition of clean, not a single defender within 5 feet of him. A pocket this clean will rarely be seen in the NFL, and Johnny regularly sees a pocket like this due to playing behind the best line in CFB the last 2 years.


D) I say he jumped a guy for no reason because he should have never taken off in the first place. Obvisouly the jump was a nifty move, but like you said the defender grabbed his ankle and the play would have been over with Johnny falling to the ground if he hadn't bounced off the back of big boy Jarvis Harrison.

E)There was never a DB covering Labhart, he was open in the flat from the get go and the safety didn't come down to pick him up, he came down because Johnny started to run and he was coming down to make a potential tackle like a safety is taught to do.

First picture below shows Labhart just sitting out in the flat with out a any DB covering him, the DB in the top right corner is turned around and chasing after Walker. In the second picture you can again see how wide open Labhart is, I circled him with a yellow circle because I feel like John Madden. The safety is has is eyes on Johnny and has broke coverage of Walker in the endzone because Johnny had just began to take off.


My whole point in rambling on about this one single play, is because it is something that I have seen happen pretty often the last two years. Johnny ends up making a play, but it isn't always the best play from the get go. Do you really think something like this would have happened in the NFL where he bounces off his own lineman and then runs all the way out of the mess? Not me, in the NFL this would have been a QB run for little gain and O'Brien would have been screaming at him because he had multiple guys open for positive gains.

Again, I love Johnny, and I think he has the potential to improve his bad habits at the next level, but we have to deal in the facts, not the hypothetical.
Cut out the screenshots but stuff like this sometimes makes me think the offensive drop-off won't be so bad. Kenny Hill seems Manziel-esque to me but a pro style guy like Kyle Allen will have a field day with a WR corps like the one we have in store. I see Allen and even Hill throwing a strike to Walker or dumping off to Labhart without the jumping around.
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