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Old 01-02-2014   #1241
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Agreed, for the same reason. I don't know how close you've got them, but I've got them really close. Which is why I can't take anyone serious who thinks we should take Bridgewater with the #1, but Manziel shouldn't be drafted in the top 10. Or even top 15.

Manziel's play making ability compensates for the lack of a "pro offense" a lot. Then the way nfl offenses are run now anyway, nothing like they ran back in the 90's when coming from a pro offense was important. & with the success of Kaepernick, Wilson, RG3, & Luck because their coaches are willing to make concessions to help their young QB be successful... & the rules protecting the QB & receiver......

Coming from a pro system is still important, just not as important as it used to be.

I'm not arguing that we should draft Manziel.
I have them very close
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Old 01-02-2014   #1242
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
I still can't see how anyone could watch that A&M-Duke game and not come away overwhelmed by Johnny Football. He willed his team to victory, including on defense. This is the type of player the Texans need desperately.
There were several displays of leadership during that game & I'm not talking about that rah-rah, cheerleading crap. I'm talking about getting in Mike Evans' face & calming him down. I'm talking about the little pow wow he had with the offense before their second(I think) scoring drive. I'm talking about going up & down the sideline enlisting his whole team....


Of course there was that moment he took a little nap, but other than that. Great display of leadership.
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Old 01-02-2014   #1243
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Default Re: Manziel

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Your cheat sheet proves my point. A&M is 46 in total rushing. Take out Manziels rushing yards and they probably don't crack the top 100. What an AWSOME OL. ! And it's two possible first rounders. One skill guy and one OL. The rest of that team is average at best. You put an average QB on that team and they would be lucky to win a game.
Not to jump into the middle of this argument, but I'd like to say my piece here. A&M will likely have 2 offensive players other than Manziel drafted in the top 20 this year. Think about that. How many other offenses can say that they will have 3 players drafted top 20 in the same year? Not many I would bet. That's not even to mention their other OT, who has an outside shot at being a 1st round pick.

They also have three 5-stars (T. Williams, Carson, B. Williams) and a 4-star (Malena) at RB. The reason they don't get the ball isn't a lack of talent, it's by offensive design. The offense is extremely QB-centric. To say otherwise is ignorant or just flat lying.

A&M's 4 RB's combined this year had 279 carries for 1556 yards (5.8 ypc) and 24 TD's. To call that unproductive is asinine. Meanwhile, Manziel had 144 rush attempts and 429 pass attempts. They don't get the ball enough. The problem isn't that his supporting cast is bad (it's not), it's that the offense is so QB-centric that everyone and everything depends on Manziel.

The notion that A&M lacks talent on offense outside of Manziel is absurd.
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Old 01-02-2014   #1244
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Default Re: Manziel

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I am worried about the offense he played in and how he will be able to adapt to a pro style offense. Other than that, I'm not worried about too much. He doesn't get any credit for his pocket passing. His accuracy from the pocket is on par with Bridgewater. That is his his most effective quality. His ability to create plays is special. Because he makes such highlight feel plays when getting out of the pocket people want to label him a mad scrambler. He has thrown more great passes from the pocket than he has made great aye with his legs.
It's not that Manziel can't throw from the pocket. It's that he plays a spread system with half field reads where every adjustment and read is pre-determined by the coaches. Comparing his pocket passing to Bridgewater's is baseless unless you are talking strictly arm strength and accuracy.


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It's funny Bridgewater made a play in his last regular game where he ran around and threw the ball up looking like a bad decision and it ended up a TD. Everyone went nuts and started claiming him as great. Saying that was a great play.

Same type of play Manziel does a couple of times every game. Yet the same people say look that won't work in the NFL.

Manziel is my second choice as of now behind Bridgewater. The only reason he is second is because of the offense Manziel has played in and because of Teddy's superior mechanics. Other than that they are the same player.
Bridgewater has proven adept at running a pro style offense efficiently and making plays from the pocket. Which is exactly what he will need to do to succeed in the NFL. The fact that he also has that ability to improvise on a broken play is a plus.

Manziel, on the other hand, runs a spread system where every play and adjustment is made by the coaches on the sideline. He gives up on plays early, bails the pocket despite protection, and improvises by running around and chucking up contested passes or scrambling and taking hits. That is not what NFL teams will be asking him to do. Freelancing should be a trait that you possess that you can utilize when a play breaks down. It should not be the entire basis of your game as a QB.

The bolded part above is completely inaccurate. They are not the same player. Not at all.
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Old 01-02-2014   #1245
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
It's not that Manziel can't throw from the pocket. It's that he plays a spread system with half field reads where every adjustment and read is pre-determined by the coaches. Comparing his pocket passing to Bridgewater's is baseless unless you are talking strictly arm strength and accuracy.




Bridgewater has proven adept at running a pro style offense efficiently and making plays from the pocket. Which is exactly what he will need to do to succeed in the NFL. The fact that he also has that ability to improvise on a broken play is a plus.

Manziel, on the other hand, runs a spread system where every play and adjustment is made by the coaches on the sideline. He gives up on plays early, bails the pocket despite protection, and improvises by running around and chucking up contested passes or scrambling and taking hits. That is not what NFL teams will be asking him to do. Freelancing should be a trait that you possess that you can utilize when a play breaks down. It should not be the entire basis of your game as a QB.

The bolded part above is completely inaccurate. They are not the same player. Not at all.
You pretty much repeated everything I said. I respect your opinion more than most on here but disagree with the last part. It is not the entire basis of his game. Does he have a tendency to leave the pocket early. Yes! But it's not nearly as much as it's made out to be. It just stands out more so people notice it more. He throws perfectly placed passes from the pocket more than he scrambles unnecessarily.
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Old 01-02-2014   #1246
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Default Re: Manziel

BREAKING NEWS: ALERT!: 60% of NFL snaps the QB is NOT, I repeat, IS NOT from under center. The trend is going HIGHER.

Johnny Football will be a better NFL QB than Teddy.

That is All!
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Old 01-02-2014   #1247
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Default Re: Manziel

Texas A&M junior T Cedric Ogbuehi revealed he received a first-round evaluation from the NFL Draft Advisory Board.


Well I was wrong about him. If he comes out I still bet he doesn't go till late second at the earliest.
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Old 01-02-2014   #1248
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Default Re: Manziel

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Texas A&M junior T Cedric Ogbuehi revealed he received a first-round evaluation from the NFL Draft Advisory Board.


Well I was wrong about him. If he comes out I still bet he doesn't go till late second at the earliest.
He won't make it past pick 33.
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Old 01-02-2014   #1249
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Default Re: Manziel

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BREAKING NEWS: ALERT!: 60% of NFL snaps the QB is NOT, I repeat, IS NOT from under center. The trend is going HIGHER.

Johnny Football will be a better NFL QB than Teddy.

That is All!
Oh yeah, and how'd that help out case keenum?
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Old 01-02-2014   #1250
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Default Re: Manziel

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Oh yeah, and how'd that help out case keenum?
Comparing a UDFA to a likely first rounder??
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Old 01-02-2014   #1251
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Default Re: Manziel

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Comparing a UDFA to a likely first rounder??
Both guys played in the same system where they took the majority of their snaps in the shotgun..

Would u prefer i said blaine gabbert.....or kevin kolb? 1 guy was a 1st rounder the other a 2nd rounder....both guys operated mostly out of the shotgun.

The point i was making was that his little tidbit has zero bearing on whether or not manziel will be successful or not in the nfl...
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Old 01-02-2014   #1252
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The point i was making was that his little tidbit has zero bearing on whether or not manziel will be successful or not in the nfl...
When have any of his tidbits had any logical bearing?
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Old 01-02-2014   #1253
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Default Re: Manziel

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When have any of his tidbits had any logical bearing?
Got a bite.....wait for it.......ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ......YANK.....G OT HIM.....another one bites the dust.

The reason people are often misguided and wrong in their interpretation and evaluations is because they fail to grasp the logic.
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Old 01-02-2014   #1254
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Old 01-02-2014   #1255
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Default Re: Manziel

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Got a bite.....wait for it.......ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ......YANK.....G OT HIM.....another one bites the dust.

The reason people are often misguided and wrong in their interpretation and evaluations is because they fail to grasp the logic.
There's no logic to what u posted...simply a misguided notion.
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Old 01-02-2014   #1256
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There's no logic to what u posted...simply a misguided notion.
see post #1254
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Old 01-04-2014   #1257
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Default Re: Manziel

As entertaining as manziel is, I couldn't draft him. Just like I couldn't draft tayvon austin or percy harvin. Its not that I wouldn't draft them,its mostly where I have them slotted,someone else would draft them. Manziel is fun,but I see a lot of fumbles,injuries,and firings in his future. Jumping into the los,the way he holds the ball low and with 1 hand in the pocket, and the hits he take. Id rather someone else try to train that bronco.
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Old 01-04-2014   #1258
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Default Re: Manziel

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As entertaining as manziel is, I couldn't draft him. Just like I couldn't draft tayvon austin or percy harvin. Its not that I wouldn't draft them,its mostly where I have them slotted,someone else would draft them. Manziel is fun,but I see a lot of fumbles,injuries,and firings in his future. Jumping into the los,the way he holds the ball low and with 1 hand in the pocket, and the hits he take. Id rather someone else try to train that bronco.
That's how I feel as well. He's by far the most dynamic and fun player in college football. I'm a big JFF fan and actually think he really improved his passing this season. I love his play.... But I'd suspect he finds success in the NFL 1-2 seasons max. I wish him the best of luck and will tune in to watch his games but I really don't think he's a long term solution at QB and not someone I could take at 1:1

Good luck in Cleveland or Jacksonville
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Old 01-04-2014   #1259
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Agreed, for the same reason. I don't know how close you've got them, but I've got them really close. Which is why I can't take anyone serious who thinks we should take Bridgewater with the #1, but Manziel shouldn't be drafted in the top 10. Or even top 15.

Manziel's play making ability compensates for the lack of a "pro offense" a lot. Then the way nfl offenses are run now anyway, nothing like they ran back in the 90's when coming from a pro offense was important. & with the success of Kaepernick, Wilson, RG3, & Luck because their coaches are willing to make concessions to help their young QB be successful... & the rules protecting the QB & receiver......

Coming from a pro system is still important, just not as important as it used to be.

I'm not arguing that we should draft Manziel.
People are severely underrating Manziel's mechanics. From the pocket his mechanics seem to be good to me. He has worked very hard last season on them with George Whitfield.
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Old 01-04-2014   #1260
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Default Re: Manziel

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People are severely underrating Manziel's mechanics. From the pocket his mechanics seem to be good to me. He has worked very hard last season on them with George Whitfield.
He consistently holds the ball closer to his ear than the other guys. His throwing motion is smooth. His release is pretty quick. He does a really good job establishing his base when he gets time.

I'm seeing a smaller Cam Newton when I see him play.
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