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Old 05-08-2014   #3701
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Default Re: Manziel

As bad as the Manziel fan boys have been, they are not nearly as annoying as the VY fan boys were.
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Old 05-08-2014   #3702
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
Going to re-state my opinion and put it clearly on record before the draft - either as an "i told you so" or to be used to serve me crow. I wouldnt draft manziel in the first two rounds. he is vince young. slightly more mental/emotional and much less physical. in the end, an awesomely exciting college player that isn't fit to survive in the NFL.

manziel will begin with a slight advantage. his entourage is celebrity success stories, instead of bad family and schemers. the result is the same though, too much focus on the people using him, and the maturity of a hamster. if i could pick him up in the 3rd or later, and have him sit backup for at least a year - time enough for him to distinguish the words "hype" and "job", he may be able to find that top tier potential.

on the football side, manziel's already been figured out. a slow rush and 2-deep safeties. make him sit and assess the field and his mental inability shows up. the kid has great instincts, and against teams that force him into creative situations he's able to be amazing. but, he has zero processing power - make the game mental and he falls apart. the evil part of me hopes he gets drafted into the AFC north, lebeau's zone blitz alone would warp his brain and cincinnati's rush 4/drop 7 would be crippling ... if someone (cleveland) tried to start him early.
Wow. Not sure where to begin. As football players they are so vastly different that any forced comparison is a fool's errand. Too many folks are wrapped up in what state these guys played in. Manziel has a better arm, better accuracy and better instincts as a runner. He's also several inches and plenty of pounds lighter. Don't confuse hype and off-the-field perceptions of conduct into somehow making them similar players. This is one of those "If my aunt had balls, she'd be my Uncle" moments.

As far your analysis of how to "handle" Manziel, I'm not sure where you're going with it. Unless you're thinking that whatever team gets him will be running a pocket-only version of the Offense, he'd shred them with his legs. Sure, it opens him up to injury, but he'd gash an attentive Defense about twice before those safeties came up and drop-7 became a thing of the past. NFL speed is surely faster, but you still aren't going to see lineman chase him down anytime soon.
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Old 05-08-2014   #3703
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
Hell I thought Cnd's picture was spot on. Manziel was a man among boys in Kerrville and he did the same thing as he did as A&M. He would roll out, buy time and no dispute what he did here and up in College Station.

I guess my concern is watching the Patriots and Brady (I am assuming Bob's offense will be similar but with some tweaks) . I just don't see Bob giving him the leash to freelance. I could be wrong..

however like I said. I do not know what Bob and the Texans system will be like.Also how would Manziel fit into a structured system? I don't know, they do
So I trust that they will make the right call.

All I can go on
We're talking about a guy who reemed a 3-time SB winning, future HOF qb on TV for all the world to see. Why? b/c he didn't like his decision making in the red zone. Of course he's not giving a 21-22 year old the leash to freelance like he did in college....b/c he understands that you can't live like that in the NFL. That more than anything is why i believe all this talk of the Texans taking Manziel anywhere in the 1st round is preposterous.

If he slips to the 2nd round......and even then it's a maybe.
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Old 05-08-2014   #3704
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by gwallaia View Post
As bad as the Manziel fan boys have been, they are not nearly as annoying as the VY fan boys were.
Oh, I don't know about that. I'd say they're getting there pretty quickly and tonight when he comes off the board and goes to someone else they're going to be as loud as anything the VY nut huggers ever gave us.

It's really a pity that UH isn't a more prominent program. We Keenum nut huggers could have made a little more noise and then this would be the third time in recent memory that we'd gone through this process. Even with our smaller numbers it was still a pretty good message board ****-fit

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Old 05-08-2014   #3705
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by gwallaia View Post
As bad as the Manziel fan boys have been, they are not nearly as annoying as the VY fan boys were.
Very true.....so far. I did notice the "who's the 1st pick" type poll on HT.com has Manzy at dang near 50%.

There will be bandwagonal knee-jerks abound
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Old 05-08-2014   #3706
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Default Re: Manziel

Don't know if anybody listened to 610 this morning, but Lopez was saying if the Texans don't draft Manziel, it would be one of the worst moments in Houston football history.




Last edited by santo; 05-08-2014 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 05-08-2014   #3707
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
Wow. Not sure where to begin. As football players they are so vastly different that any forced comparison is a fool's errand. Too many folks are wrapped up in what state these guys played in. Manziel has a better arm, better accuracy and better instincts as a runner. He's also several inches and plenty of pounds lighter. Don't confuse hype and off-the-field perceptions of conduct into somehow making them similar players. This is one of those "If my aunt had balls, she'd be my Uncle" moments.

As far your analysis of how to "handle" Manziel, I'm not sure where you're going with it. Unless you're thinking that whatever team gets him will be running a pocket-only version of the Offense, he'd shred them with his legs. Sure, it opens him up to injury, but he'd gash an attentive Defense about twice before those safeties came up and drop-7 became a thing of the past. NFL speed is surely faster, but you still aren't going to see lineman chase him down anytime soon.
Guys who've been successful scrambling & running around with the ball at the qb position in the NFL have either had exceptional physical traits (Cunningham, Vick, McNabb Newton) or are so good at passing the ball running lanes open up to them b/c teams are dropping back in coverage (Young, Elway, Wilson).

Manziel obviously isn't in the class of the 1st group with exceptional physical traits...If he was, there'd be no question who should be the pick at 1:1. It also remains to be seen if he can be a consistently good enough passer to deter defenses from coming after him like they do all rookie qb's. He had spells in college where he was fine playing from the pocket (usually against bad teams) he had much more trouble doing so against better defensive teams. a few months in the off season working with a qb guru isn't going to correct that...sorry Manziel fans. Gotta see it when the live bullets start to fly b/c that's when guys start to revert to old habits. I also think you are severely underestimating NFL speed. If he can't give defenses a consistent pause to not come after him, he most certainly will be run down much more often than he will escape.
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Old 05-08-2014   #3708
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post


The "jerk" part has been redacted from the original post. For those claiming Cloak has made informed opinions, all I've seen from him is blind insistence than Manziel is going to be injury prone and some comedic pictures of a retard dog running around and then lying down on his back.

I'm fine with criticizing Manziel. I just find posts like his on the subject to not be conducive to conversation. State your arguments about his ability to read a defense, his predilection to scramble, and his size, and move on.

No need to walk around acting as if you are the only authority on the subject and anyone that believes differently is simply a dumb ass. That's the tone I have gotten from CND's posts.
I found the pictures to be quite funny. Of course I don't get my panties is a wad very often.

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Old 05-08-2014   #3709
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by FirstTexansFan View Post
Though I may not agree with CnD's opinion, I do believe him to be one of the most believable posters on Texans Talk.... I look to him for any medical evaluations when it comes to the Texans.... now I'm a bit ashamed he's not admitted to being a teasip.... he is a doctor afterall... and we all know UT graduates a ton of them
I want this on record. I too GREATLY value CND's contribution to this board. His medical evaluations are routinely right on. As an example, I remember when Cushing hurt his knee the first time, and CND immediately came on the board, made note of the hand signal used, and correctly predicted EXACTLY what the injury would be. No doubt, he's a benefit to the board. I've just found his insight on Manziel to be the polar opposite of his insight on all things medically related.

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I found the pictures to be quite funny. Of course I don't get my panties is a wad very often.

Humor is one of the great things in life.
To be honest, I found the pictures mildly comical.

I'll state it again. The point of my original post was to state that I can identify with the VY lovers to a point in their desire to rub his success in the face of haters (in the case of Manziel, I used CND as my main example) and if/when Johnny marches into Reliant and leads Jacksonville to trounce the Texans, it will be VERY difficult for me to not give all those posters that were anti-Manziel hell over the blind hatred of the kid, much of it due to where he went to college.
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Old 05-08-2014   #3710
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
Oh, I don't know about that. I'd say they're getting there pretty quickly and tonight when he comes off the board and goes to someone else they're going to be as loud as anything the VY nut huggers ever gave us.

It's really a pity that UH isn't a more prominent program. We Keenum nut huggers could have made a little more noise and then this would be the third time in recent memory that we'd gone through this process. Even with our smaller numbers it was still a pretty good message board ****-fit
There was never the illusion that Case Keenum would be the #1 pick in the draft like Young and Manziel either.
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Old 05-08-2014   #3711
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by santo View Post
Don't know if anybody listened to 610 this morning, but Lopez was saying if the Texans don't draft Manziel, it would be one of the worst moments in Houston football history.
I don't see the groundswell for Manziel. Some like him, some don't. Most just want to draft someone, bring him in, and start winning. I don't care who is drafted, really. If the Texans draft every player I want them to, and still lose, I will call them a failure. The only thing that matters to me is watching a winning team in NRG Stadium. I really don't care much who I'm watching. And I think most fans feelings reflect mine.
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Old 05-08-2014   #3712
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Default Re: Manziel

... and it has begun.

http://forums.texags.com/main/forum....692&forum_id=5

http://forums.texags.com/main/forum....831&forum_id=5

I guess it's nice to know that it's not just UT fans that go can go full on asinine when it comes to a player.
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Old 05-08-2014   #3713
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Hookem Horns View Post
... and it has begun.

http://forums.texags.com/main/forum....692&forum_id=5

I guess it's nice to know that it's not just UT fans that go can go full on asinine when it comes to a player.
I guess all those Aggies dumping the Texans have no allegiance to Randy Bullock.
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Old 05-08-2014   #3714
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
I don't see the groundswell for Manziel. Some like him, some don't. Most just want to draft someone, bring him in, and start winning. I don't care who is drafted, really. If the Texans draft every player I want them to, and still lose, I will call them a failure. The only thing that matters to me is watching a winning team in NRG Stadium. I really don't care much who I'm watching. And I think most fans feelings reflect mine.
I'm in the same boat. Actually brought back memories from the draft of 2006. Everything that is being said of Manziel now is almost identical to what was said about Vince Young. Especially how the Titans would destroy us every year. The Jaguars and Titans have been beating us regardless of who their quarterback was.

We have been the Browns of the AFC South. Nobody fears us when they come to Houston. My hope is that O'Brien makes our team fearless and dominant like the Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, etc.
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Old 05-08-2014   #3715
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by gwallaia View Post
There was never the illusion that Case Keenum would be the #1 pick in the draft like Young and Manziel either.
That's what I'm saying. He was an UDFA and he still generated a pretty good amount of insanity all things considered.
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Old 05-08-2014   #3716
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by gwallaia View Post
I guess all those Aggies dumping the Texans have no allegiance to Randy Bullock.
It's VY all over again.
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Old 05-08-2014   #3717
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Default Re: Manziel

Here's what should (should have) happened.

The Texans sign Vince Young instead of Cleveland.
The Texans draft Johnny Manziel
The Texans keep Case Keenum on the roster.

Our fan base would devour each other in a sea of hatred.

You think the Liberal-Conservative, Christian-Atheist, and Pro-Choice - Pro Life mudslinging is bad in the No Spin Zone.
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Old 05-08-2014   #3718
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by gwallaia View Post
Here's what should (should have) happened.

The Texans sign Vince Young instead of Cleveland.
The Texans draft Johnny Manziel
The Texans keep Case Keenum on the roster.

Our fan base would devour each other in a sea of hatred.
Texans fans fighting each other in the stands?
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Old 05-08-2014   #3719
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Let's make a deal, let's agree that this is message board and that different ideas and messages are all welcome. And a message board is where you come to discuss, debate and learn about different subject matter. And that you and I can do just that whether anyone agrees with us or not or doesn't approve of what we may have to say.
I agree completely. This is what the forum has always been about, and you will not find a post from me in the last decade that contradicts it.

It's all good, man. It's just conversation about a subject that we all care about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
I'll state it again. The point of my original post was to state that I can identify with the VY lovers to a point in their desire to rub his success in the face of haters (in the case of Manziel, I used CND as my main example) and if/when Johnny marches into Reliant and leads Jacksonville to trounce the Texans, it will be VERY difficult for me to not give all those posters that were anti-Manziel hell over the blind hatred of the kid, much of it due to where he went to college.
I do not think the Manziel hype has been anything close to the VY situation in 2006. Similarities and shades, yes, but VY just came off a national championship, and let's face it, UT fans are a dime a dozen like Yankees and Cowboys fans when their teams are winning (no offense to t-sippers, just 47 years of living-in-Texas-observation on my part).

The VY supporters won the battle when he came to Reliant that rookie season, the infamous "this is my house!" game where he gouged the Texans D for a long run at the end of the game.

But, they lost the war when VY turned out to be all hat and no cattle. One of the bigger over-hyped busts in recent memory.

My attitude about "fairweather fans" that Texian took exception to was specifically due to 2006. I had Texans 'friends' in my section. We knew each other every year because of season tickets. Some even purported to HATE the Titans.

Then that 2006 game. Many show up in Titans gear! They literally screamed at us when the game was over like it was our decision to make. "How could we be so stupid to pass up a hall of famer like VY?!?!!!!"

Next home game they're back in Texans gear.

That left an indelible impression on me, which is why I have a strong opinion on the matter.

btw, I have nothing against Manziel. If they draft him, I'll be on board with the pick. If they don't, then on to the next guy.
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Old 05-08-2014   #3720
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hookem Horns View Post
Texans fans fighting each other in the stands?
I can see it now.

Keenum gets sacked and fumbles the ball. Texans fans wearing Young and Manziel jerseys go crazy and start cheering. They even start the wave in the stadium.

Young gets confused, runs 90 yards the wrong way for a safety. Manziel and Keenum fans erupt into cheers.

Manziel is plowed over by a linebacker and is knocked out of the game.
Pandemonium ensues in Reliant Stadium as Young and Keenum fans rejoice.

Fights and terror in the stands.
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