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Old 05-07-2014   #3681
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Default Re: Manziel

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The Bottom Line: When the Texans are on the clock, it's Bill O'Brien's call.
Really? Has this been confirmed?
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Old 05-07-2014   #3682
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by FirstTexansFan View Post
Like you Kerville boys, I've watched Johnny play since HS. I stand by my trade down, but I'll not be forgiving if the Texans spend that 1st pick on a QB and it's not Manziel. Has nothing to do with anything more than my own experience watching football for more than 50yrs. He's the top QB coming out, and all the arguments to belay that are from those that have an axe to wield, or buy into the negativity put out there about the kid. I'd hate to see him playing for the Browns, but I hope with everything I've got we can work out a trade to build this team from the ground up, just too many holes to fill and one player is not going to accomplish those needs.
I would be. I can't think of a top 10 QB prospect in this draft with a lower floor than Manziel. Picking Manziel is strictly boom or bust with no middle ground. A lot like Tebow. There's no middle ground. All or nothing. Even if Manziel has a good NFL career, he'll be considered a bust if he isn't the 2nd coming of Tarkington or Young.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3683
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by markn View Post
I'm completely neutral on this a&m/ut rivalry because I went to school in a different country. As a completely impartial observer, I can state unequivocally that the hysteria from the pro-manziel faction massively outweighs the somewhat amused disdain coming from the other camp.
Sort of like if I am talking about your kid, I am being impartial and fair but if you defend your kid against my criticisms you are over reacting.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3684
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
I would be. I can't think of a top 10 QB prospect in this draft with a lower floor than Manziel. Picking Manziel is strictly boom or bust with no middle ground. A lot like Tebow. There's no middle ground. All or nothing. Even if Manziel has a good NFL career, he'll be considered a bust if he isn't the 2nd coming of Tarkington or Young.
We'll just have to disagree on the bolded. Opinions, we've all got them, but for me, it'll be something I'll have to overcome. Like you, I feel I'm right
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Old 05-07-2014   #3685
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by FirstTexansFan View Post
We'll just have to disagree on the bolded. Opinions, we've all got them, but for me, it'll be something I'll have to overcome. Like you, I feel I'm right
Right on... I forgot to mention that I think JFF has the highest ceiling, imho, also. I like him and I posted:
Quote:
If I just absolutely had to pick at 1.1, I'm going with Manziel. Might as well make a big splash and roll the dice. It might end up all rainbows and unicorns or it might be a train wreck, but it will definitely be one helluva ride!!

I'd be very easy to trade with, though.
in the Who would be your #1 choice - pre draft edition thread. I'm not a Manziel hater. I'm just not completely convinced that his game translates to the NFL level. If we still agree to disagree, then you're simply in love with the guy and have visions of unicorns and rainbows if the Texans draft him. You're being very unrealistic about Manziel and the draft, in general.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3686
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
Really? Has this been confirmed?
In almost every interview with a O'Brien mentor the one single consistent piece of advice that O'Brien constantly received was, MAKE SURE YOU ARE IN CHARGE. What do you think?
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Old 05-07-2014   #3687
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
Right on... I forgot to mention that I think JFF has the highest ceiling, imho, also. I like him and I posted:
in the Who would be your #1 choice - pre draft edition thread. I'm not a Manziel hater. I'm just not completely convinced that his game translates to the NFL level. If we still agree to disagree, then you're simply in love with the guy and have visions of unicorns and rainbows if the Texans draft him. You're being very unrealistic about Manziel and the draft, in general.
Nope, that would clarify it for me Doc. To use that 1.1 pick on a QB and it not be Manziel would totally bewilder me. It'd probably eat on me for a long time. I'm firm in my thought process we need to work a trade, and I truly believe with Manziel and Clowney there, it's something that can happen.

Oh, and a funny... I live in New Braunfels, Texas and the HS team is called the Unicorns LOL
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Old 05-07-2014   #3688
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by FirstTexansFan View Post
Nope, that would clarify it for me Doc. To use that 1.1 pick on a QB and it not be Manziel would totally bewilder me. It'd probably eat on me for a long time. I'm firm in my thought process we need to work a trade, and I truly believe with Manziel and Clowney there, it's something that can happen.

Oh, and a funny... I live in New Braunfels, Texas and the HS team is called the Unicorns LOL
Having thought about it a bit, I could even see trading back into the 1st to get Manziel. I'm still all over the place with this guy. LOL

I can see so much potential and so much failure. One thing is for sure, in my mind: JFF can't be successful in the NFL playing like JFF at aTm. He's gonna have to learn to stay in the pocket a bit longer. Otherwise, he's a much more expensive version of Keenum. With more talent.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3689
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
In almost every interview with a O'Brien mentor the one single consistent piece of advice that O'Brien constantly received was, MAKE SURE YOU ARE IN CHARGE. What do you think?
Smith is on thin ice. He wont bet his job on O'Brien's first draft as a HC.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3690
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
Smith is on thin ice. He wont bet his job on O'Brien's first draft as a HC.
other than your opinion, anything supporting Smith is on thin ice? Just curious
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Old 05-07-2014   #3691
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
Smith is on thin ice. He wont bet his job on O'Brien's first draft as a HC.
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other than your opinion, anything supporting Smith is on thin ice? Just curious
Agreed. Too much speculation on who has what call. I'm going with the traditional set up. Coaches and scouts plead their case, the GM makes the call. The HC coaches up the guys the GM drafts.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3692
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Default Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
Maybe you misstated in the original post? Calling a respected member of the forums a jerk is bound to bring criticism. I know...I've come out on the wrong end of a few bouts with ICak. There are ways to say things and ways not to say things. If I'm giving this advice, I'm apparently capable of learning...whoulda thunk it???



The "jerk" part has been redacted from the original post. For those claiming Cloak has made informed opinions, all I've seen from him is blind insistence than Manziel is going to be injury prone and some comedic pictures of a retard dog running around and then lying down on his back.

I'm fine with criticizing Manziel. I just find posts like his on the subject to not be conducive to conversation. State your arguments about his ability to read a defense, his predilection to scramble, and his size, and move on.

No need to walk around acting as if you are the only authority on the subject and anyone that believes differently is simply a dumb ass. That's the tone I have gotten from CND's posts.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3693
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Default Re: Manziel

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Old 05-07-2014   #3694
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post


The "jerk" part has been redacted from the original post. For those claiming Cloak has made informed opinions, all I've seen from him is blind insistence than Manziel is going to be injury prone and some comedic pictures of a retard dog running around and then lying down on his back.

I'm fine with criticizing Manziel. I just find posts like his on the subject to not be conducive to conversation. State your arguments about his ability to read a defense, his predilection to scramble, and his size, and move on.

No need to walk around acting as if you are the only authority on the subject and anyone that believes differently is simply a dumb ass. That's the tone I have gotten from CND's posts.
Not good enough. You should be banned and your entire family flogged. This kind of dissent just isn't welcomed around here.

I kid, I kid... the draft is tomorrow and we'll have some stuff to really argue about!!!
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Old 05-07-2014   #3695
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
The "jerk" part has been redacted from the original post. For those claiming Cloak has made informed opinions, all I've seen from him is blind insistence than Manziel is going to be injury prone and some comedic pictures of a retard dog running around and then lying down on his back.
I like CnD & value his contribution to the board as a whole. But... I agree with SayWatt on this. He's got all the talking points for being against Manziel, but not a whole lot of substance. I don't know why SayWatt singled CnD out though.

The hate is strong on this board.

& I really don't understand it. Chances of us drafting Manziel at any point in this draft is less than it every was for drafting Vince. It ain't gonna happen. Why waste your time telling everyone what a bad idea it is to draft JFF, when it ain't gonna happen?
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Old 05-07-2014   #3696
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Default Re: Manziel

Though I may not agree with CnD's opinion, I do believe him to be one of the most believable posters on Texans Talk.... I look to him for any medical evaluations when it comes to the Texans.... now I'm a bit ashamed he's not admitted to being a teasip.... he is a doctor afterall... and we all know UT graduates a ton of them
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Old 05-07-2014   #3697
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Default Re: Manziel

Manziel will be a buccaneer by this time tomorrow.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3698
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Default Re: Manziel

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I get it. I got it then & I get it now. I don't understand spending another $8M to figure out a guy who has not shown the ability to play this game at this level can't play this game at this level.

Vince wasn't even supposed to come out, but because of an incredible National Championship victory & the fact that the Texans... the Houston Texans, his home team, had the #1 pick, he decided to come out.

& there's no doubt in my mind that Bud Adams demanded his team draft VY just to give the good ol city of Houston another F.U.


But being the kind of fan I am, I went ahead & bought my first David Carr Jersey because I knew there would be a lot of Vince Young Jerseys, even though I knew we would be looking for a new QB in 2007. I appreciate the fans who wore the UT jerseys instead of the Titans' jersey, but I also get that a lot of Houston Oiler fans are Tennessee Titans fans & that makes sense too... I don't like it. But it makes sense.

Manziel is going to get drafted by another team. & if people wear his jersey to the game... so be it. Texans fans telling the F.O. that they wanted Manziel... I get it.

But what I didn't get, & to this day do not understand, is how in the heck could Gary Kubiak & the Houston Texans not understand it's not "just another game" when Vince Young came to Reliant. You win that game, no matter what. Whatever you gotta do to get that team pumped & play like it's their Super Bowl, you gotta do it.

Those fans walking in with those VY jerseys.... Vince talking about, "This is my house" There were 53 people out there plus coaches, GMs, & Owners who could have shut those people up, but they came out & laid an egg... again, & again.

The Texans were soft & that nothing exemplified that like Vince Young, his fans, & the noise they made in Houston.
Are you suggesting Texan Players, employees or fans should've leaked info regarding VY? I'm confused.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3699
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Default Re: Manziel

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Are you suggesting Texan Players, employees or fans should've leaked info regarding VY? I'm confused.
I'm suggesting they should have came out & played to bury the Titans. They acted like it was just another game & it was anything but. It was a division rival, it was the old Houston team. & after that first loss, Vince saying, "This is my house." they should have vowed to take it back.


& if we couldn't beat him, they should have broke his legs.
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Old 05-08-2014   #3700
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Default Re: Manziel

Going to re-state my opinion and put it clearly on record before the draft - either as an "i told you so" or to be used to serve me crow. I wouldnt draft manziel in the first two rounds. he is vince young. slightly more mental/emotional and much less physical. in the end, an awesomely exciting college player that isn't fit to survive in the NFL.

manziel will begin with a slight advantage. his entourage is celebrity success stories, instead of bad family and schemers. the result is the same though, too much focus on the people using him, and the maturity of a hamster. if i could pick him up in the 3rd or later, and have him sit backup for at least a year - time enough for him to distinguish the words "hype" and "job", he may be able to find that top tier potential.

on the football side, manziel's already been figured out. a slow rush and 2-deep safeties. make him sit and assess the field and his mental inability shows up. the kid has great instincts, and against teams that force him into creative situations he's able to be amazing. but, he has zero processing power - make the game mental and he falls apart. the evil part of me hopes he gets drafted into the AFC north, lebeau's zone blitz alone would warp his brain and cincinnati's rush 4/drop 7 would be crippling ... if someone (cleveland) tried to start him early.
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