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Old 05-07-2014   #3601
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
If BOB has FINAL say on 53 man roster in his contract...
There's a difference between having the final say on the 53 man roster & Rick Smith controlling the draft. They've got to work together, it doesn't make sense for Smith to draft a guy that O'Brien hasn't bought off on, but whether we take a QB with that first pick, trade down, or take Clowney, that's Rick Smith's decision.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3602
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by HJam72 View Post
The thing is, I listened to Zierlien earlier today (recorded on the Net, don't know if it was live TODAY) talking about what a shocker it is to watch Manziel miss open receiver after open receiver when watching him on the All 22. He doesn't see them. Hopefully, that is coachable. If not, it's a killer...

Can't help thinking about how some of us did the same thing while scrutinizing Schaub during this last season. If he didn't see an open receiver, we were all over it and ticked about it, but Manziel is apparently a real problem in that regard. Seems to be his main weakness.

BTW, Zierlein is still a Manziel fan, regardless.
I think Lance is looking at it as if Manziel were playing in the NFL. For all we know, Manziel was told on whatever play to look high to low & make his decision within that progression. IF he doesn't see what he's looking for, then he should either throw it away (which I don't think was ever in Manziel's play bood) or tuck it & run (most likely in bold letters, just going off what I saw).

Some QBs were told & taught to scan from one side of the field to the other, then hit the check down.

Manziel was pretty open with Gruden, he was not in a pro system. He didn't manage protections, or have the same "reads" that you'd expect in a pro system.

That's the main reason "great" college QBs don't make it in the NFL.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3603
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
Draft position, pure and simple. I don't love him enough to pick him at 1.1, but I like him enough to pick him later than that. I'd be good at 1.6, if the Atlanta deal goes through.

I want the sure-fire pick at 1.1, especially if it's a position of need. IF is a damned big word in any draft. IF you can guarantee that Manziel will be a quality starter for the next 10-15 years, then I'm cool. Of course you can't, so I'm not.
I don't want any QB that high, but the only way I see someone wanting a particular player at 1.6 & not at 1.1, to me it's about who would you want instead.

If you see 5 elite players that you don't want a QB in lieu of, then it makes sense to not want him at 1.1, but be perfectly fine taking him at 1.6

If you see 10 elite players, then it wouldn't make any more sense at 1.6 than it would at 1.1

The extra picks provides the value to pass on that elite talent.

I'm in a different group all together. I don't think Manziel is going to be any more successful in the NFL than Aaron Murray, Zach Mettenberger, or Aj McCarron. Being that it is pretty safe that one of those three guys will be there at 2-1, I'm not touching QB until 2-1. Hopefully I get McCarron, I like him better than all the others, including Carr, Bridgewater, & Manziel. But if I don't get McCarron, I'd be fine taking Murray, Mettenberger, or Bridgewater if he is still there.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3604
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Default Re: Manziel

The most users ever online simultaneously here was on April 28, 2006.

I hope that all the mods have the hamsters running extra fast on Thursday. I think we might break a record. Good luck guys and thanks for the hard work so we can sit here and yell at each other.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3605
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Default Re: Manziel

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The most users ever online simultaneously here was on April 28, 2006.

I hope that all the mods have the hamsters running extra fast on Thursday. I think we might break a record. Good luck guys and thanks for the hard work so we can sit here and yell at each other.
Duh, what happened on that day?

I do promise that no matter what, I will not post ****!!! in the largest possible font and bolded in red. I'm done overreacting...

I promise.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3606
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
There's a difference between having the final say on the 53 man roster & Rick Smith controlling the draft. They've got to work together, it doesn't make sense for Smith to draft a guy that O'Brien hasn't bought off on, but whether we take a QB with that first pick, trade down, or take Clowney, that's Rick Smith's decision.
The Bottom Line: When the Texans are on the clock, it's Bill O'Brien's call.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3607
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Many of those after more than 5 seconds to throw the ball.......not in the NFL.
Not mush different than Bridgewater on that note, but with higher completion percentage. I just pray he can avoid the rush that long without the body strength (or body type) of Culpepper. The scariest part is neither Bridgewater or Bortles have Manziel's arm, which isn't a cannon to begin with.

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answers above. I thought McAaron had the best Oline? I have said he needs to improve but so does every other player. JM did do better in 2013.
With arguably a worse line, far worse defense and without the element of surprise he might have had year 1. Eff it, he's just a scrawny me-first type who has no hope of success.

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LOL...the dude has been...lucky. I don't see him as being the next Manning or Montana. I see him as good, not great. Not much wow there, imo.
If you're setting the bar higher than Luck, then you'll be waiting a long time. Can you name a QB drafted in the last 10 years who meets your standard?
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Old 05-07-2014   #3608
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Default Re: Manziel

Johnny McClain is all...



John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL
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I better not get in @NFLCharean Williams way when J Football comes out.

Manziel is changing into shorts and t shirt in a tent and no, @ChronBrianSmith isn't helping him. I don't think. Brian? Where's Brian?

Check out @ChronBrianSmith whose reason for living the next two days is recording everything that happens with Johnny Football.

Players are doing a charity appearance with kids before meeting with media.

Word's spreading among media here that Manziel is going to Jacksonville at 3.

Johnny's here! You'd think it was John, Paul, George and Ringo based on reaction at Chelsea Waterside Park.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3609
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
If you're setting the bar higher than Luck, then you'll be waiting a long time. Can you name a QB drafted in the last 10 years who meets your standard?
I know I am in the minority, but I'm still not sold on the Papacy of Luck as a once-in-a-lifetime QB.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3610
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Default Re: Manziel

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He didn't need it in college much either. But that didn't stop him from waiting way longer than that far too frequently.



Don't buy this argument at all. It just reads like an excuse.



His offense breaks down because he doesn't play within it. He had one of the best (probably the best) pass blocking lines in the entire country. They gave him huge amounts of time to scan the field and get rid of the ball. And he waits until the very last moment far too often. He is also spooked by phantom pressure more than any other guy I've ever scouted.
Must also spread the rep!
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Old 05-07-2014   #3611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
I know I am in the minority, but I'm still not sold on the Papacy of Luck as a once-in-a-lifetime QB.
Awww, dude... we need to talk when I'm back in town. Get you into the majority.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3612
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Default Manziel

You know being on the other side of this is starting to make me understand a bit of why SOME of the VY lovers were sporting VY jerseys at Reliant. It's almost an 'f you to posters like Cloak that seem to have nothing better to do than waltz in every thread to bash Manziel. There are many others that do precisely the same thing, with Cloak leading the pack.

I'm not sure I'll wear a Jacksonville jersey but if we pass on Manziel and he goes to Jacksonville, it will be very difficult for me to not laugh in the faces of a bunch of Texans fans and cheer when Manziel leads the Jags to trounce all over the Texans.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3613
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
You know being on the other side of this is starting to make me understand a bit of why SOME of the VY lovers were sporting VY jerseys at Reliant. It's almost an 'f you to the jerk posters like Cloak that seem to have nothing better to do than waltz in every thread to bash Manziel. There are many others that do precisely the same thing, with Cloak leading the pack.

I'm not sure I'll wear a Jacksonville jersey but if we pass on Manziel and he goes to Jacksonville, it will be very difficult for me to not laugh in the faces of a bunch of Texans fans and cheer when Manziel leads the Jags to trounce all over the Texans.
I am a true Texans fan, but I am in agreement with this. I had no problem with the VY fans at Reliant either. I think VY would have continued to be successful if he put the effort Manziel puts in and had a proper support system. Luckily for the Texans, he cracked. If not, we'd be seeing loss after loss to Tennessee.

And for those calling me a Manzielot. I'll own it. Heck yeah, I'm a Johnny sunshine pumper. I will eat crow if I'm wrong, but in this case... I'm not. Texans will rue the day if they don't take Manziel.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3614
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
You know being on the other side of this is starting to make me understand a bit of why SOME of the VY lovers were sporting VY jerseys at Reliant. It's almost an 'f you to the jerk posters like Cloak that seem to have nothing better to do than waltz in every thread to bash Manziel. There are many others that do precisely the same thing, with Cloak leading the pack.

I'm not sure I'll wear a Jacksonville jersey but if we pass on Manziel and he goes to Jacksonville, it will be very difficult for me to not laugh in the faces of a bunch of Texans fans and cheer when Manziel leads the Jags to trounce all over the Texans.
You're s'posed to wait until after we don't get him to say this stuff.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3615
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Default Re: Manziel

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...an 'f you to the jerk posters like Cloak that seem to have nothing better to do than waltz in every thread to bash Manziel. There are many others that do precisely the same thing, with Cloak leading the pack...
Cannot agree with you on Dr. CND, my man.

He's one of the best members on TexansTalk.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3616
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Default Re: Manziel

Anyone that roots against their own team because of personnel decisions is not a freakin' fanatic for their team. That is the very definition of fair-weather fan, like it or not.

I understand disappointment, but I will never understand the nature of betrayal. It is akin to screwing around on your wife because she didn't buy the sexy dress you like. And yeah, being a sports fanatic is a deep personal commitment like marriage. Don't get caught up in the metaphor. It's not a marriage, but the commitment and devotion is very similar.

Where are all those VY nut huggers and their bandwagon jerseys today? Buying Browns gear? What bunch of chumps.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3617
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
You know being on the other side of this is starting to make me understand a bit of why SOME of the VY lovers were sporting VY jerseys at Reliant. It's almost an 'f you to the jerk posters like Cloak that seem to have nothing better to do than waltz in every thread to bash Manziel. There are many others that do precisely the same thing, with Cloak leading the pack.

I'm not sure I'll wear a Jacksonville jersey but if we pass on Manziel and he goes to Jacksonville, it will be very difficult for me to not laugh in the faces of a bunch of Texans fans and cheer when Manziel leads the Jags to trounce all over the Texans.
Do you post in the football sections much? CnD is
about the farthest thing from a jerk that I can think of.


Quote:
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I am a true Texans fan, but I am in agreement with this. I had no problem with the VY fans at Reliant either. I think VY would have continued to be successful if he put the effort Manziel puts in and had a proper support system. Luckily for the Texans, he cracked. If not, we'd be seeing loss after loss to Tennessee.

And for those calling me a Manzielot. I'll own it. Heck yeah, I'm a Johnny sunshine pumper. I will eat crow if I'm wrong, but in this case... I'm not. Texans will rue the day if they don't take Manziel.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3618
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
You know being on the other side of this is starting to make me understand a bit of why SOME of the VY lovers were sporting VY jerseys at Reliant. It's almost an 'f you to the jerk posters like Cloak that seem to have nothing better to do than waltz in every thread to bash Manziel. There are many others that do precisely the same thing, with Cloak leading the pack.

I'm not sure I'll wear a Jacksonville jersey but if we pass on Manziel and he goes to Jacksonville, it will be very difficult for me to not laugh in the faces of a bunch of Texans fans and cheer when Manziel leads the Jags to trounce all over the Texans.
As someone who would be very excited to see what Manziel (or Clowney or Mack or Bortles) could do if we drafted him I find this totally distasteful. If your love for a single player (who hasn't played a down yet in the NFL) supersedes your love for the team you root for to the point that you would become so bitter towards said team for passing on your guy that you would take pleasure in it's suffering.... it just doesn't compute to me. He could bust, any of these guys could bust. Or all of them could be great. Get over yourself man.
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Old 05-07-2014   #3619
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Default Re: Manziel

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Anyone that roots against their own team because of personnel decisions is not a freakin' fanatic for their team. That is the very definition of fair-weather fan, like it or not.

I understand disappointment, but I will never understand the nature of betrayal. It is akin to screwing around on your wife because she didn't buy the sexy dress you like. And yeah, being a sports fanatic is a deep personal commitment like marriage. Don't get caught up in the metaphor. It's not a marriage, but the commitment and devotion is very similar.

Where are all those VY nut huggers and their bandwagon jerseys today? Buying Browns gear? What bunch of chumps.
I remember Mattress Mac pulling his advertising when the Texans didn't draft Vince Young...
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Old 05-07-2014   #3620
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Default Re: Manziel

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Anyone that roots against their own team because of personnel decisions is not a freakin' fanatic for their team. That is the very definition of fair-weather fan, like it or not.

I understand disappointment, but I will never understand the nature of betrayal. It is akin to screwing around on your wife because she didn't buy the sexy dress you like. And yeah, being a sports fanatic is a deep personal commitment like marriage. Don't get caught up in the metaphor. It's not a marriage, but the commitment and devotion is very similar.

Where are all those VY nut huggers and their bandwagon jerseys today? Buying Browns gear? What bunch of chumps.
When I was much much younger I was much like the fan you describe. It didn't matter who the team signed as a coach or a player I was all in. I just knew that this no matter what this was going to make the team so much better. After many years of wearing the rose colored glasses and drinking the kool aid I started to become more and more skeptical. This along with watching this game for many decades I learned and became a lot smarter about the many aspects of this game.

I observed what worked and what didn't work. I have witnessed a ton of good decisions and even more BAD decisions. I have a good memory. This along with the fact that I owned my own business, made payroll, manged all the rules, regulations and million dollar budgets. This gave me a much better understanding of business and administration. So forgive me if today I don't follow or meet your fan expectations. I think I have earned the right. I have found that my skepticism is right much more often than going all in. I have also found that going all in on every decision the team makes, for me, can be an exercise in futility. It is now very hard for me to go all in when I know that reality is sending a completely different message.

So today when the team hires a coach, drafts/signs a player or makes a decision I don't agree with, the best I got is, Geez, I hope I am wrong.
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The GREATEST risk is not taking one. ....Bob, hire Eliot Wolf, then get the hell out of the way.
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