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Old 05-06-2014   #3561
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Default Re: Manziel

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But I bet you would be perfectly happy if the Texans draft a 1st ballot HOF'er at 1.1 Thursday night!!

And no trades in this mock!!!
check back with me in 10-15 years. Oh BTW are you saying there is a HOF'er in first round? That is exciting
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Old 05-06-2014   #3562
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Default Re: Manziel

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check back with me in 10-15 years. Oh BTW are you saying there is a HOF'er in first round? That is exciting
I think it was DB that said this draft reminded him of Bowie/Jordan in the '84 NBA draft. so I was just piggybacking off of that thought. The Rams could get Bowie with 1.2, the Jags Jordan at 1.3, and the Texans get Olojuwon at 1.1 and I'd be perfectly happy with that. I loved watching Dream and the Texans could do a LOT worse in this draft than getting a player of that caliber.

I'm in no way, shape or form saying there's a HOF'er in the 1st round.Check back with me in 10-15 years!!!
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Old 05-06-2014   #3563
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Default Re: Manziel

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McNair is going to defer to the coaching staff. O'Brien will make the first decision on whether he wants a QB at 1.1. If he makes the decision to go defense with the first pick, he will mostly defer to Crennel, who'll make the decision whether it's going to be Clowney or Mack.

If OB decides to go QB, McNair will press for Manzel, but will defer to OB if he insists on Bortles.
If BOB has FINAL say on 53 man roster in his contract, as I truly expect is the case, McNair pretty much has to defer to his HC. I can't imagine McNair would override his new HC with the first BIG decision for the new coach and violate the contract agreement from the get go.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3564
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Default Re: Manziel

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If BOB has FINAL say on 53 man roster in his contract, as I truly expect is the case, McNair pretty much has to defer to his HC. I can't imagine McNair would override his new HC with the first BIG decision for the new coach and violate the contract agreement from the get go.
I agree with this. If it was going to happen, it would've happen in '06 and VY would've been a Texan, imo. McNair is involved, but seems to let his people do their job with minimal interference. Reed being the flier in this...I think that was all McNair.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3565
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by agproducer View Post
Texans need to take a chance. But, I will say again -- they don't have the guts to do it. Manziel will make the Texans pay if they don't take him. Book it.
Vince Young made us pay for not taking him. I still don't wish we had.

Just a thought. I'm not really against Manziel.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3566
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Default Re: Manziel

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Vince Young made us pay for not taking him. I still don't wish we had.

Just a thought. I'm not really against Manziel.
I never wanted VY( but I liked him over Bush). And he didn't make us pay for nearly long enough to worry about. Freaking head case. I hope he has it together now, though. Kind of a sad story.

I'm all over the place with Manziel. I can talk myself into picking him or out of it every 5 minutes. The dude is a total enigma to me at the top of this draft. If he's there at 1.11 or later, I roll the dice and take him. Top 10, he makes me nervous.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3567
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
I agree with this. If it was going to happen, it would've happen in '06 and VY would've been a Texan, imo. McNair is involved, but seems to let his people do their job with minimal interference. Reed being the flier in this...I think that was all McNair.
After Richard Smith and Frank Bush I think McNair stepped in and hired Wade and promised Wade a couple of 1st RD picks to take the job. IMHO Kubiak agreed or he could get fired. Kubiak's defenses were dismal.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3568
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
I never wanted VY( but I liked him over Bush). And he didn't make us pay for nearly long enough to worry about. Freaking head case. I hope he has it together now, though. Kind of a sad story.

I'm all over the place with Manziel. I can talk myself into picking him or out of it every 5 minutes. The dude is a total enigma to me at the top of this draft. If he's there at 1.11 or later, I roll the dice and take him. Top 10, he makes me nervous.
I just don't get this, what is different getting him 1 or 11? If he starts for you at #1 he should start at #11. If he is injured, does it matter what you gave for him? Not attacking but you seem caught up in point value chart? Now that could matter bit more 20 or less is because you could then convince me he could sit for a year. I just really do not want QB to sit this season more than a few games. If we improve the line let's get him on field.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3569
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Default Re: Manziel

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I just don't get this, what is different getting him 1 or 11? If he starts for you at #1 he should start at #11. If he is injured, does it matter what you gave for him? Not attacking but you seem caught up in point value chart? Now that could matter bit more 20 or less is because you could then convince me he could sit for a year. I just really do not want QB to sit this season more than a few games. If we improve the line let's get him on field.
The option year. It's more expensive to pick up the 5th year option for a top 10 pick than an 11-32 pick. Just economics.

I disagree with you on the bolded. I say sit the kid until he's ready and only use him in garbage time. Unless he clearly shows that he grasps the offense and can execute it at a high level. Nothing discourages as much as losing and getting the hell beat out of you to boot. Just ask David Carr.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3570
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Default Re: Manziel

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I never wanted VY( but I liked him over Bush). And he didn't make us pay for nearly long enough to worry about. Freaking head case. I hope he has it together now, though. Kind of a sad story.

I'm all over the place with Manziel. I can talk myself into picking him or out of it every 5 minutes. The dude is a total enigma to me at the top of this draft. If he's there at 1.11 or later, I roll the dice and take him. Top 10, he makes me nervous.
I agree with that. I might take him as early as 1.06. Maybe.

The thing is, I listened to Zierlien earlier today (recorded on the Net, don't know if it was live TODAY) talking about what a shocker it is to watch Manziel miss open receiver after open receiver when watching him on the All 22. He doesn't see them. Hopefully, that is coachable. If not, it's a killer...

Can't help thinking about how some of us did the same thing while scrutinizing Schaub during this last season. If he didn't see an open receiver, we were all over it and ticked about it, but Manziel is apparently a real problem in that regard. Seems to be his main weakness.

BTW, Zierlein is still a Manziel fan, regardless.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3571
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Default Re: Manziel

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..........and, meanwhile, Rick Smith is in the sauna............
Smith has been involved in evaluating and grading the prospects. He'll give his advice on the prospects and make his opinion known on whom should be taken. But he too will defer if OB is adamant, one way or the other. If Smith and OB both lean toward Clowney, but Crennel wants Mack, then if Crennel can explain why he prefers his choice and how he intends to use that player in his defense, and why he prefers Mack over Clowney, I expect they will defer. All the decision making over the first choice has probably already been ironed out, barring the details of a trade, but Smith's advice is more likely to be taken the further down the draft you go. The one aspect of a choice, at any spot in the draft, in which McNair's and Smith's decision may take precedent, is when it comes to the character of a prospect.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3572
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Default Re: Manziel

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I agree with that. I might take him as early as 1.06. Maybe.

The thing is, I listened to Zierlien earlier today (recorded on the Net, don't know if it was live TODAY) talking about what a shocker it is to watch Manziel miss open receiver after open receiver when watching him on the All 22. He doesn't see them. Hopefully, that is coachable. If not, it's a killer...

Can't help thinking about how some of us did the same thing while scrutinizing Schaub during this last season. If he didn't see an open receiver, we were all over it and ticked about it, but Manziel is apparently a real problem in that regard. Seems to be his main weakness.

BTW, Zierlein is still a Manziel fan, regardless.
I was a HUGE fan of Russell until I noticed the dude couldn't read a defense to save his life. His WR had to have 2 yds of separation before he was "open". 2 feet or less is considered open in the NFL.

I don't know that you can coach reading a defense or seeing the open WR. Either the game slows down for you and you get it or it doesn't.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3573
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
The option year. It's more expensive to pick up the 5th year option for a top 10 pick than an 11-32 pick. Just economics.

I disagree with you on the bolded. I say sit the kid until he's ready and only use him in garbage time. Unless he clearly shows that he grasps the offense and can execute it at a high level. Nothing discourages as much as losing and getting the hell beat out of you to boot. Just ask David Carr.
If you have a 4 year QB that you cannot spend $ for fifth year he probably should not be on your roster. A top 11 QB by year five has to be your starter and that costs money. Yes you have to keep control of your cap but good QBs get paid. Unless you have a very good vet ahead of your top 11 pick (and we probably don't) you get him on field. Carr got beat up mostly because of poor line. I said we will put Oline in front of whomever we select. Of course, he has to grasp and execute the O but if you did not think he could do that why in world would you draft him?
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Old 05-06-2014   #3574
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Default Re: Manziel

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I agree with that. I might take him as early as 1.06. Maybe.

The thing is, I listened to Zierlien earlier today (recorded on the Net, don't know if it was live TODAY) talking about what a shocker it is to watch Manziel miss open receiver after open receiver when watching him on the All 22. He doesn't see them. Hopefully, that is coachable. If not, it's a killer...

Can't help thinking about how some of us did the same thing while scrutinizing Schaub during this last season. If he didn't see an open receiver, we were all over it and ticked about it, but Manziel is apparently a real problem in that regard. Seems to be his main weakness.

BTW, Zierlein is still a Manziel fan, regardless.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3575
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Default Re: Manziel

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If you have a 4 year QB that you cannot spend $ for fifth year he probably should not be on your roster. A top 11 QB by year five has to be your starter and that costs money. Yes you have to keep control of your cap but good QBs get paid. Unless you have a very good vet ahead of your top 11 pick (and we probably don't) you get him on field. Carr got beat up mostly because of poor line. I said we will put Oline in front of whomever we select. Of course, he has to grasp and execute the O but if you did not think he could do that why in world would you draft him?
OK. Not saying I'm right, but I'd be much more comfortable at 1.11 than 1.1 if I'm drafting Manziel.

There might be a reason that none of us are in an NFL war room right now. LOL

Like I said, I'm all over the map with Manziel. I love him and like him. I just don't know where I want to draft him.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3576
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Default Re: Manziel

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OK. Not saying I'm right, but I'd be much more comfortable at 1.11 than 1.1 if I'm drafting Manziel.

There might be a reason that none of us are in an NFL war room right now. LOL

Like I said, I'm all over the map with Manziel. I love him and like him. I just don't know where I want to draft him.
and that is my point without beating you over the head. If you love and like him what does it matter where you draft him if you think he can play the position? Now if you can get him later..that is why Dallas took so much heat over selecting Frederick even with a trade down they prob could have had him at least a round later.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3577
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I agree with that. I might take him as early as 1.06. Maybe.

The thing is, I listened to Zierlien earlier today (recorded on the Net, don't know if it was live TODAY) talking about what a shocker it is to watch Manziel miss open receiver after open receiver when watching him on the All 22. He doesn't see them. Hopefully, that is coachable. If not, it's a killer...

Can't help thinking about how some of us did the same thing while scrutinizing Schaub during this last season. If he didn't see an open receiver, we were all over it and ticked about it, but Manziel is apparently a real problem in that regard. Seems to be his main weakness.

BTW, Zierlein is still a Manziel fan, regardless.

That's interesting about the All 22. Regardless, I still think it HAS to be factored into the equation of just how horrible the Aggie defense was this year. I'm not saying to completely excuse the missed open receivers. But what I am saying is you have to try and understand what is going on in the mind of Manziel. Perhaps he is not so much missing the receiver as he is waiting for a bigger play to open up. All of the weight was placed on his shoulders. Games this year were won AND lost by what Manziel did on the field. If he was able to make the big plays and score on essentially every drive of the game, the Aggies won. If he made a few mistakes and missed some key opportunities, the Aggies lost. There simply was no room for conservative play from Manziel with as porous as his defense was.

Did you watch Gruden's QB Camp with Manziel? He seemed to handle this issue perfectly. He pointed out Manziel's need to get better at the check down. All the great ones perfect the check down. He'll have to learn to take what the defense gives him and quit always relying on making the big play. I don't think he'll have a problem doing that.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3578
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Default Re: Manziel

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That's interesting about the All 22. Regardless, I still think it HAS to be factored into the equation of just how horrible the Aggie defense was this year. I'm not saying to completely excuse the missed open receivers. But what I am saying is you have to try and understand what is going on in the mind of Manziel. Perhaps he is not so much missing the receiver as he is waiting for a bigger play to open up. All of the weight was placed on his shoulders. Games this year were won AND lost by what Manziel did on the field. If he was able to make the big plays and score on essentially every drive of the game, the Aggies won. If he made a few mistakes and missed some key opportunities, the Aggies lost. There simply was no room for conservative play from Manziel with as porous as his defense was.

Did you watch Gruden's QB Camp with Manziel? He seemed to handle this issue perfectly. He pointed out Manziel's need to get better at the check down. All the great ones perfect the check down. He'll have to learn to take what the defense gives him and quit always relying on making the big play. I don't think he'll have a problem doing that.
He took Gruden's criticisms well imo also.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3579
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I agree with that. I might take him as early as 1.06. Maybe.

The thing is, I listened to Zierlien earlier today (recorded on the Net, don't know if it was live TODAY) talking about what a shocker it is to watch Manziel miss open receiver after open receiver when watching him on the All 22. He doesn't see them. Hopefully, that is coachable. If not, it's a killer...

Can't help thinking about how some of us did the same thing while scrutinizing Schaub during this last season. If he didn't see an open receiver, we were all over it and ticked about it, but Manziel is apparently a real problem in that regard. Seems to be his main weakness.

BTW, Zierlein is still a Manziel fan, regardless.
I get your point, but I hold Zierlien's opinions is high regard....and he (& I, btw), are still pretty high on Manziel.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3580
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Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
That's interesting about the All 22. Regardless, I still think it HAS to be factored into the equation of just how horrible the Aggie defense was this year. I'm not saying to completely excuse the missed open receivers. But what I am saying is you have to try and understand what is going on in the mind of Manziel. Perhaps he is not so much missing the receiver as he is waiting for a bigger play to open up. All of the weight was placed on his shoulders. Games this year were won AND lost by what Manziel did on the field. If he was able to make the big plays and score on essentially every drive of the game, the Aggies won. If he made a few mistakes and missed some key opportunities, the Aggies lost. There simply was no room for conservative play from Manziel with as porous as his defense was.

Did you watch Gruden's QB Camp with Manziel? He seemed to handle this issue perfectly. He pointed out Manziel's need to get better at the check down. All the great ones perfect the check down. He'll have to learn to take what the defense gives him and quit always relying on making the big play. I don't think he'll have a problem doing that.
No, I didn't see that? Is there some website I can see it on?

You do make some good points there.
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