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Old 05-06-2014   #3521
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Default Re: Manziel

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...o-in-1st-round

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Charley Casserly: Johnny Manziel won't go in 1st round
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Old 05-06-2014   #3522
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by agproducer View Post
But, the Texans won't do it. They will keep the status quo of mediocrity. Drafting a DE is not going to get you to the Super Bowl. The premier teams in the league have star-power -- they always have. Manning, Brady, Elway, Favre -- all have star power and charisma to them. David Carr, Schaub, Tony Banks -- they all did not. Keenum is the only QB ever on the Texans who has had an inkling of star power. The rest have been plain vanilla.
Winning makes star-power not vice versa. Neither Brady nor Favre had star power coming out of college. Jeff George did. Ryan Leaf did.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3523
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by noxiousdog View Post
Winning makes star-power not vice versa. Neither Brady nor Favre had star power coming out of college. Jeff George did. Ryan Leaf did.
For everyone you point out, I can counter. Manning (both Peyton and Eli) had satr power coming out of college. So did Elway. So did Vick (maybe he is a bad example because he has no SB). Even McNabb had some buzz coming out about him before he was drafted.

Leaf and George had character question marks when they were drafted.

I saw this on another board, but I will repeat it. The Texans are basically "The Nickelback of the NFL." And, if they keep drafting the way they do, they will continue to be that way.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3524
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Leaf and George had character question marks when they were drafted.
Yeah, not the best example. Manziel isn't exactly an angel.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3525
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
OB, short of some "adjustments," will never (and should never) give up control of his offense and its playbook to a 21-year-old "partner coach".........and Manziel, even with attempts at some adjustments, will not be able to play within a well-structured OB playbook. When a QB is reasonably structured, the rest of the offense knows exactly what they need to do. When a QB is unstructured, it's virtually like playing sandlot football.........and NFL football is NOT sandlot football.
That's the part nobody knows. It's not even about OB specifically. There are coaches (like Kubiak) that abhor letting their QB even audible very often. He made strides in a year of Whitfield's tutelage, I'm wondering what a year of day-to-day NFL work will do.

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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...o-in-1st-round Charley Casserly: Johnny Manziel won't go in 1st round
I'd bet Charley a paycheck he's wrong.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3526
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by TexanSam View Post
Yeah, not the best example. Manziel isn't exactly an angel.
What has he done that makes you say that?
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Old 05-06-2014   #3527
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by agproducer View Post
For everyone you point out, I can counter. Manning (both Peyton and Eli) had satr power coming out of college. So did Elway. So did Vick (maybe he is a bad example because he has no SB). Even McNabb had some buzz coming out about him before he was drafted.

Leaf and George had character question marks when they were drafted.

I saw this on another board, but I will repeat it. The Texans are basically "The Nickelback of the NFL." And, if they keep drafting the way they do, they will continue to be that way.
Right. Star power means nothing as a predictive trait.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3528
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
I really like it when people say Manziel cannot do something as he will then do it. The only think he can't do is grow taller. If he is there at 33 I draft him no matter who I take in first.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3529
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I really like it when people say Manziel cannot do something as he will then do it. The only think he can't do is grow taller. If he is there at 33 I draft him no matter who I take in first.
Agree. He's a good risk at 33 but a terrible risk at 1. Can't see him lasting until 33.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3530
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Default Re: Manziel

http://www.sports790.com/media/podca...14-1-24727903/

Lance Zierlein -- My eyes were opened when watching the All-22 with Jaworski/Cosell. (Second half of the above linked hour.)
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Old 05-06-2014   #3531
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by markn View Post
Agree. He's a good risk at 33 but a terrible risk at 1. Can't see him lasting until 33.
any QB can get hurt--pick the best and give them supportive cast which we can do and turn them lose. We want intelligence, he has it (32). We want a play maker, he is. We want a QB with decent arm that can toss it long, he can.
We want a leader that motivate team and takes it on his shoulders...
Risk? That is what you do if you pass on him.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3532
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Default Re: Manziel

Noxiousdog-

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Star-power is in no way predictive of winning or success. What I'm saying is, teams that are successful usually have a QB with star power. The Texans have never had that. Manziel would bring that. I'm not saying because Manziel has star power that equates to success.

But, the Texans need a QB with star power. It is obvious that plain vanilla hasn't worked.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3533
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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
any QB can get hurt--pick the best and give them supportive cast which we can do and turn them lose. We want intelligence, he has it (32). We want a play maker, he is. We want a QB with decent arm that can toss it long, he can.
We want a leader that motivate team and takes it on his shoulders...
Risk? That is what you do if you pass on him.
I don't mean the risk of him getting injured, I mean the risk of his skill-set not transferring to the nfl.

Anyway it's moot, we won't take him 1.1. If we do, I'll be back here eating crow.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3534
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Default Re: Manziel

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I don't mean the risk of him getting injured, I mean the risk of his skill-set not transferring to the nfl.

Anyway it's moot, we won't take him 1.1. If we do, I'll be back here eating crow.
Gravy helps--believe me, I know.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3535
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by agproducer View Post
Noxiousdog-

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Star-power is in no way predictive of winning or success. What I'm saying is, teams that are successful usually have a QB with star power. The Texans have never had that. Manziel would bring that. I'm not saying because Manziel has star power that equates to success.

But, the Texans need a QB with star power. It is obvious that plain vanilla hasn't worked.
You're getting the formula backwards.

Success creates star power; not vice versa.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3536
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by noxiousdog View Post
You're getting the formula backwards.

Success creates star power; not vice versa.
So, the Mannings weren't successful in college? They were stars coming out of college. Manziel is 20-6 as A&M's starter. Does he not have star power?

I'm saying the Texans need that. I'm tired of the team being boring without a real, vocal leader on offense.

Who are the leaders the Texans have had? Carr? Schaub? Tony Banks? Mario?

The only ones I can think of are Watt, Cush and Andre. Only Watt and Cush are vocal. Andre has a quiet calm about him. He leads by example. Sometimes, players need a kick in the pants from a peer. There is no vocal leader on offense.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3537
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by agproducer View Post
So, the Mannings weren't successful in college? They were stars coming out of college. Manziel is 20-6 as A&M's starter. Does he not have star power?

I'm saying the Texans need that. I'm tired of the team being boring without a real, vocal leader on offense.

Who are the leaders the Texans have had? Carr? Schaub? Tony Banks? Mario?

The only ones I can think of are Watt, Cush and Andre. Only Watt and Cush are vocal. Andre has a quiet calm about him. He leads by example. Sometimes, players need a kick in the pants from a peer. There is no vocal leader on offense.
I hear you and IŽd welcome Manziel - but he is a real risky player. Manning was a sure thing, he had it all. Manziel might be the next Tebow, Vince Young or out of the league because some defender killed him. There is a big question mark, if he will workout in the NFL. If you take him, you bank the next 4 years of this team on him. If you are wrong, we are in "hell" for the next years.

All the while, there are several players that WILL make this team better and help this team win, perhaps for the next 10 years. Robinson and Matthews look like sure starters/stars, Clowney and Mack look like impact players that will wreak havoc, Waktins and Evans look like stars to me. Not selecting a QB first overall may be a smart thing, if no QB is worth being selected first overall. And that`s what the scouts are trying to decide. If they think, Manziel is worth being picked first, they will pick him.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3538
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I hear you and IŽd welcome Manziel - but he is a real risky player. Manning was a sure thing, he had it all. Manziel might be the next Tebow, Vince Young or out of the league because some defender killed him. There is a big question mark, if he will workout in the NFL. If you take him, you bank the next 4 years of this team on him. If you are wrong, we are in "hell" for the next years.

All the while, there are several players that WILL make this team better and help this team win, perhaps for the next 10 years. Robinson and Matthews look like sure starters/stars, Clowney and Mack look like impact players that will wreak havoc, Waktins and Evans look like stars to me. Not selecting a QB first overall may be a smart thing, if no QB is worth being selected first overall. And that`s what the scouts are trying to decide. If they think, Manziel is worth being picked first, they will pick him.
You are right. Manziel is the ultimate boom-bust pick. But, I think his potential to boom is much greater than his potential to bust. I've said that all along.

There are other really great players in the draft, but the QB position is the most influential position on the field. I think if it comes down to a great DE versus a better than average QB in the draft -- you take the QB. The other QBs don't do it for me. I have questions on all of them, but the fewest on Manziel.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3539
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by agproducer View Post
So, the Mannings weren't successful in college? They were stars coming out of college. Manziel is 20-6 as A&M's starter. Does he not have star power?
Of course they were successful. That's why they were stars coming out of college.

Quote:
I'm saying the Texans need that. I'm tired of the team being boring without a real, vocal leader on offense.
Ok. I'm not sure that star power means leader. I'm not a sure a rookie can step in and be a leader.

But I'm ok with saying that if Manziel is successful, he'll likely be a good leader.
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Old 05-06-2014   #3540
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by LikeMike View Post
I hear you and IŽd welcome Manziel - but he is a real risky player. Manning was a sure thing, he had it all. Manziel might be the next Tebow, Vince Young or out of the league because some defender killed him. There is a big question mark, if he will workout in the NFL. If you take him, you bank the next 4 years of this team on him. If you are wrong, we are in "hell" for the next years.

All the while, there are several players that WILL make this team better and help this team win, perhaps for the next 10 years. Robinson and Matthews look like sure starters/stars, Clowney and Mack look like impact players that will wreak havoc, Waktins and Evans look like stars to me. Not selecting a QB first overall may be a smart thing, if no QB is worth being selected first overall. And that`s what the scouts are trying to decide. If they think, Manziel is worth being picked first, they will pick him.
None of the bolded are as likely as a "good" starting QB to have an impact on the team's W/L record. It doesn't matter if it's Manziel, Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr or someone else. The Texans traded their starter, they need another one if they hope to see the Sunny side of 8-8.
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