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Old 04-26-2014   #3461
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Sounds Like Romo???
If he could be more disciplined in the pocket and make better decisions with the ball I think he could be very similar to Romo.

Manziel may very well be electric, but I don't think people realize how many turnovers he is going to create if he doesn't learn to tone it down.
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Old 04-26-2014   #3462
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
I agree with what you've said. I just feel that in the NFL, Manziel, despite constant coaching to the otherwise, will more likely easily revert to his old habits.........yes, resulting in extended plays........but not in extended positive results. As opposed to college, with him facing NFL size and speed D players every single week.......every single play...........this is not to even mention how familiar I expect he will become with extended rehab.
Understood. But I remember them saying the same thing all the way back to McNabb.

"Cam's not going to be able to run roughshod over the competition in the NFL."

But he did.

"Vince won't be able to run like that in the NFL."

But he did.

"There is no way Vick is going to be able to that in the NFL."

But he did.

"McNabb isn't going to be able to run like that against the bigger, faster, stronger NFL."

But he did.

And with guys like Vince & Cam... they don't get hit. Unless they wanted to (in Cam's case).
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Old 04-26-2014   #3463
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Understood. But I remember them saying the same thing all the way back to McNabb.

"Cam's not going to be able to run roughshod over the competition in the NFL."

But he did.

"Vince won't be able to run like that in the NFL."

But he did.

"There is no way Vick is going to be able to that in the NFL."

But he did.

"McNabb isn't going to be able to run like that against the bigger, faster, stronger NFL."

But he did.

And with guys like Vince & Cam... they don't get hit. Unless they wanted to (in Cam's case).
Remind me again of how many Super Bowl these guys have hoisted?

I wouldn't put VY, Cam or Vick in the same category as McNabb. McNabb was a much better all around QB, imho. Cam might catch him, but it's too early to say.
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Old 04-26-2014   #3464
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
Remind me again of how many Super Bowl these guys have hoisted?

I wouldn't put VY, Cam or Vick in the same category as McNabb. McNabb was a much better all around QB, imho. Cam might catch him, but it's too early to say.
How many did Stafford or Bradford win?

That's not the point or the point of the argument. This particular conversation is about their ability to make plays with there legs, specifically how it was said they wouldn't be able to do it in the NFL.
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Old 04-26-2014   #3465
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Understood. But I remember them saying the same thing all the way back to McNabb.

"Cam's not going to be able to run roughshod over the competition in the NFL."

But he did.

"Vince won't be able to run like that in the NFL."

But he did.

"There is no way Vick is going to be able to that in the NFL."

But he did.

"McNabb isn't going to be able to run like that against the bigger, faster, stronger NFL."

But he did.

And with guys like Vince & Cam... they don't get hit. Unless they wanted to (in Cam's case).
All those players you've listed, except for Vick, are mountain size men compared to Manziel. And when Vick could play, he continually played while fighting injuries. Prison gave his body a pleasant break......for a while.
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Old 04-26-2014   #3466
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
All those players you've listed, except for Vick, are mountain size men compared to Manziel. And when Vick could play, he continually played while fighting injuries. Prison gave his body a pleasant break......for a while.
Vick has always been miscast as a WCO QB. A WCO QB he's not. Unfortunately Vick's time was 10 years to soon, before the read option.
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Old 04-26-2014   #3467
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
All those players you've listed, except for Vick, are mountain size men compared to Manziel. And when Vick could play, he continually played while fighting injuries. Prison gave his body a pleasant break......for a while.
Doesn't change the fact. A lot of times these guys come out of college with this style of playing & we think, "They can't do it in the NFL" & they do. Cam & Vince, & Kaepernick (actually) do it & they're not touched if they don't want to be touch (I add that because Cam tends to initiate contact from time to time).

I'm not saying Manziel will be able to run roughshod over the NFL, I doubt it myself. But I've been surprised before.
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Old 04-26-2014   #3468
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
How many did Stafford or Bradford win?

That's not the point or the point of the argument. This particular conversation is about their ability to make plays with there legs, specifically how it was said they wouldn't be able to do it in the NFL.
Hence the

I wouldn't dare say that VY or Vick have ever been elite QB's. More like flashes in the pan. The jury is still out on Kap and Cam. Last season made Kap look a lot closer to a flash in the pan than the long term answer in SF.

Cam's stats have him as kind of middle of the road. My jury is still out on him. He might develope into a great QB if he can get some talent around him and the right system.

I'm pretty excited to see how Stafford does with Golden Tate joining the team. This could be a career year for him. He really needs to cut down on the turnovers, though.
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Old 04-26-2014   #3469
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
I wouldn't dare say that VY or Vick have ever been elite QB's. More like flashes in the pan. The jury is still out on Kap and Cam. Last season made Kap look a lot closer to a flash in the pan than the long term answer in SF.

Cam's stats have him as kind of middle of the road. My jury is still out on him. He might develope into a great QB if he can get some talent around him and the right system.
Fair. I can't argue with any of that. I'll add if anyone thought JFF was an elite prospect, they'd be banging the table to take him at 1-1. I don't think he's an elite prospect, I'm not even suggesting we take him at 1-1.

What I will say about the guys mentioned, is that their ability to move the chains helped their team win games. Winning games, imo, is the only way to buy these guys time to develop. & that goes for any prospect, whether he's a straight up drop back passer, or the once in a generation prototypical NFL QB.

I don't care if we do draft Manziel, but if we do & they put him on the field, we better win. If we ever stop winning with him taking snaps, we need to replace him. If he can't stay on the field because of his college football JFF antics, we need to replace him.
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Old 04-26-2014   #3470
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In your opinions, who is the best passer out of Manziel, Kap, Vick, Cam, Tebow, or VY?


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Old 04-26-2014   #3471
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
In your opinions, who is the best passer out of Manziel, Kap, Vick, Cam, Tebow, or VY?


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At the college level:
Manziel
Cam
Tebow
Kap
Vick
VY

At the NFL level:
Cam
Vick
Kap
Tebow
VY

Very hard to choose between Tebow and VY at the bottom of this list.
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Old 04-26-2014   #3472
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
In your opinions, who is the best passer out of Manziel, Kap, Vick, Cam, Tebow, or VY?


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One thing about those guys, the "support" or "hype" about VY & Tebow was extremely localized.

People all over the country were hyping Vick & Cam.

Nobody knew Kaepernick.
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Old 04-26-2014   #3473
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
One thing about those guys, the "support" or "hype" about VY & Tebow was extremely localized.

People all over the country were hyping Vick & Cam.

Nobody knew Kaepernick.
Tebow hype was extremely localized? Are you talking about his playing ability at the NFL level or what? Everything about Tebow was a national media circus before he ever got drafted. Very similar to JFF...
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Old 04-26-2014   #3474
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Default Re: Manziel

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Tebow hype was extremely localized? Are you talking about his playing ability at the NFL level or what? Everything about Tebow was a national media circus before he ever got drafted. Very similar to JFF...
Bingo! ESPN had Tebow on 24 hr hype. Tebow has a high ratings quotient and ESPN was getting every nickle they could out of Tebow hype.
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Old 04-26-2014   #3475
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Default Re: Manziel

I meant the hype to draft him in the first round.

You didn't see Cleveland "falling in love" with Vince or Tebow. The only people talking about drafting him in the first round were people from Texas & Florida respectively.

I've seen St. Louis, Oakland, & Cleveland mocked to take Manziel in the first. I don't remember seeing a single mock with Tebow going in the first round to anyone other than Jacksonville.
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Old 04-26-2014   #3476
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I meant the hype to draft him in the first round.

You didn't see Cleveland "falling in love" with Vince or Tebow. The only people talking about drafting him in the first round were people from Texas & Florida respectively.

I've seen St. Louis, Oakland, & Cleveland mocked to take Manziel in the first. I don't remember seeing a single mock with Tebow going in the first round to anyone other than Jacksonville.
I haven't gone back to look at any of the mocks when Tebow was drafted, but there was 24 hr. Tebow mania and much speculation about whether or not he would be willing to change positions. He'd make one heck of a 'tweener like James Casey was for the Texans.

No one doubts that JFF has the tools and intangibles to be a great NFL QB. Not very many thought that about Tebow, but they did think he could be good to great at a different position.

You are correct on VY, imo, though. He's homegrown and went to UT. Besides, I think Reggie Bush kept a lot of the VY thing from being a bigger media hype than it was.
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Old 04-27-2014   #3477
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Default Re: Manziel

I don't remember a single mock that didn't have Vince Young going among the top 10 picks in 2006. Oakland was very likely take him if he slipped that year IIRC, and there was speculation he'd go to the Bills or (obviously) the Titans.
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Old 04-27-2014   #3478
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Default Re: Manziel

Johnny Manziel is the enigma of NFL draft quarterbacks
Quote:
"I would love to draft him, because of any player in the draft, he will do more for a team than anybody because of his position and the energy he brings to it," longtime NFL personnel executive Jerry Angelo, the former Chicago Bears general manager, told USA TODAY Sports.

"Unfortunately, that offense is the antithesis of what teams are doing and he is obviously a very nonconventional NFL quarterback. You have to ask yourself, who does he remind me of? There's got to be prototypes. Really, there's nobody."

"For me, it's not oversimplifying it (to say) if I took him, I would take his offensive coordinator and I would make him my offensive coordinator," Angelo said. "I don't want to reinvent him and try to make him something that I think he can be."

"One thing about Manziel: He's ready to play," Angelo said. "His game is not going to change. It's, what are you going to ask him to do?"
Quote:
"He's the wild card," another longtime NFL personnel man said on condition of anonymity for competitive reasons. "He's just got to be (with) the right coach, right scheme. You don't want to bottle him up, but you also have to discipline him, and he's got to buy into what you're doing."

"Now, will some of the physical traits catch up with him?" the NFC scout said. "Maybe, when you talk about the size and their offense and how some of it was kind of chucking it up to one of the best receivers in the country (Mike Evans) and letting him go make a play."
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Old 04-28-2014   #3479
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
We also know that the Houston Texans aren't considering Manziel with the first selection.
http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill.php

Quote:
One of the quarterback-needy teams picking in the top 10 told us they have a second-round grade on Manziel...

Four sources with other teams told us that they have a first-round grades on Manziel. Two of those teams said they have Manziel in the top 20 on their big boards. One general manager said he is confident that Manziel won't be available in the second round, and someone is going to pull the trigger on him in the first.
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Old 04-28-2014   #3480
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Default Re: Manziel

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Interesting that he said he would hire Manziel's OC and we do not have one...

Current A&M OC:

"Spavital has risen up the ranks quickly since beginning his college coaching career in 2008 at Tulsa under Bill Blankenship and with then-offensive coordinator Gus Malzahn. He joined Sumlin's staff as a graduate assistant at Houston in 2009, before following Holgorsen to Oklahoma State and then West Virginia. He has worked with a number of highly productive quarterbacks in the style of offense that Texas A&M uses, including Case Keenum at Houston, Brandon Weeden at Oklahoma State, Geno Smith at West Virginia, and Johnny Manziel this season at Texas A&M." http://espn.go.com/college-football/...ve-coordinator
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