Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > Football Talk > College Football & the 2014 NFL Draft
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


College Football & the 2014 NFL Draft The future stars of the NFL

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-25-2014   #3421
BigBull17
Hall of Fame
 
BigBull17's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Alvin
Age: 33
Posts: 5,081
Rep Power: 8759 BigBull17 is a quality contributor and well respectedBigBull17 is a quality contributor and well respectedBigBull17 is a quality contributor and well respectedBigBull17 is a quality contributor and well respectedBigBull17 is a quality contributor and well respectedBigBull17 is a quality contributor and well respectedBigBull17 is a quality contributor and well respectedBigBull17 is a quality contributor and well respectedBigBull17 is a quality contributor and well respectedBigBull17 is a quality contributor and well respectedBigBull17 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

The similarities between this draft and 2006 are mind blowing.
__________________
Ugh, I wish my dog would quit Schaubin in the living room...
BigBull17 is offline  
Old 04-25-2014   #3422
agproducer
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Houston
Posts: 32
Rep Power: 0 agproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

TK-

No, there are those questions about Manziel, and I was writing my above post while you were posting about Cam and Johnny's weaknesses.

I agree. There are questions as to if Manziel can read a defense. McCarron and Mettenberger have done that. But, lest we forget, Manziel did learn under Sherman for his first year at A&M. He didn't see the field, but he is familiar with some of the terminology and the reads.

I think the Gruden camp was a little revealing about Manziel's knowledge. He so much as admitted that he knew the correct read, but tried to push it. that's the thing about Manziel. He knew the Aggie D was terrible last year, so he took a few more chances trying to push the ball down the field. He knew that A&M had to score a TD on almost every single drive to have a shot at winning. That's a lot of pressure on a guy.

I think Johnny has grown since he declared for the draft. The guy has succeeded at every level, but has also shown he can deal with adversity.

I believe he's the best pick and will alter the Texans franchise for the better.

I would rather Manziel come here and if he flops (which I don't think he will), then go elsewhere -- especially in the Texans' division, and beat their faces in for 10+ years.
agproducer is offline  
Old 04-25-2014   #3423
JB
Old Curmudgeon
 
JB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Willis
Age: 58
Posts: 22,825
Rep Power: 55787 JB is a quality contributor and well respectedJB is a quality contributor and well respectedJB is a quality contributor and well respectedJB is a quality contributor and well respectedJB is a quality contributor and well respectedJB is a quality contributor and well respectedJB is a quality contributor and well respectedJB is a quality contributor and well respectedJB is a quality contributor and well respectedJB is a quality contributor and well respectedJB is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by agproducer View Post
I would rather Manziel come here and if he flops (which I don't think he will), then go elsewhere -- especially in the Texans' division, and beat their faces in for 10+ years.


So you're not a Texans fan?
__________________
Thanks to False Start for the sig
JB is offline  
Old 04-25-2014   #3424
santo
Hall of Fame
 
santo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pasadena, TX
Age: 35
Posts: 1,351
Rep Power: 35666 santo is a quality contributor and well respectedsanto is a quality contributor and well respectedsanto is a quality contributor and well respectedsanto is a quality contributor and well respectedsanto is a quality contributor and well respectedsanto is a quality contributor and well respectedsanto is a quality contributor and well respectedsanto is a quality contributor and well respectedsanto is a quality contributor and well respectedsanto is a quality contributor and well respectedsanto is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBull17 View Post
The similarities between this draft and 2006 are mind blowing.
I agree. We just need to find our next Demeco.
santo is offline  
Old 04-25-2014   #3425
agproducer
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Houston
Posts: 32
Rep Power: 0 agproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

JB-

That's not what I said at all. I look at Manziel flopping as the lesser of two evils. I think Manziel succeeding with a franchise in the Texans division as a whole lot worse than him coming to the Texans and not doing well.

I'd hate to have him kicking the Texans around for years, knowing we could have had our QB position locked up. I just don't think they can pass on him.
agproducer is offline  
Old 04-25-2014   #3426
agproducer
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Houston
Posts: 32
Rep Power: 0 agproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

The similarities to the 2006 draft are mindblowing. In that draft, I wanted Reggie Bush. When healthy, he is still a gamechanger and playmaker.

Mario worked out great for the Texans, but I don't think he was the dominating force they hoped he'd be. He's been a very good DE, but I think Mario disappeared a lot when the Texans needed him most.

I worry that will be the same if the Texans take Clowney.
agproducer is offline  
Old 04-25-2014   #3427
Say Watt
Site Contributor
 
Say Watt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,889
Rep Power: 44894 Say Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by agproducer View Post
TK is saying what I've thought all along. There is not a bigger competitor at the QB position in this draft. The Duke game is just a glimpse at Manziel's career at A&M. He is a leader. The players have said there is no other QB they would rather follow. That says something about a man.

The shot of Johnny on the sideline near the end of the Duke game talking to not only the offense, but the defense -- saying "Take it from them. Take it from them." That was raw passion.

The Texans have NEVER had that on offense. On D, they have fire with Watt and Cushing, but for years, no one has been a vocal leader on offense. Schaub was milquetoast. Carr never had it (of course, he got his face kicked in with a horrible O-line). Andre has always been a lead-by-example type of guy.

OB has said he wants a guy who is a competitor. Manziel fits that. He is the best QB option in this draft. You can point to Teddy's short passing accuracy, but Manziel is quite comparable there. You can talk about Bortles prototypical NFL size, and Manziel doesn't match up there -- but I'd rather have Johnny's intangibles who kicked butt in a major NCAA conference over those guys anytime.
Great post, and rep to you. You seem to have hit all of the major points. Almost all of the great ones at the QB position in the NFL have those very same intangibles that Johnny Manziel possesses. They don't get rattled when the going gets tough, they are ultimate competitors, and they know how and when to fire up their team. Add in Manziel's athleticism, arm strength, and accuracy, and it is just plain foolish to pass on him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I'm sorry, I may have let you down if you'd have read a little further. His leadership is a strong suit for him. But he's got weaknesses as well. I'm just trying to tell it like it is.

Leadership, off the chart.

Drive & competitiveness, off the chart.

Plus agility. Plus arm. Plus vision (he sees the whole field). Playmaker.

Then there are the things we don't "know" & have to infer. Can he read a defense? If I'm saying Bison 2 roll (I just learned that the other day), does he know what I'm talking about? Does he know what soft corners are & how routes should adjust for that? Does he know how to set the protections? Like Gruden says... does he know how to solve problems at the LOS?

Johnny admitted he didn't have to do a lot of that at A&M, but he's been learning since the end of the season. Maybe he's shown that he has the ability, it's hard for me to say.

But there are other guys who've been doing it for a long time already; Bridgewater, McCarron, Murray, Garoppolo, Bortles, Mettenberger... and some of those guys have been doing it really well.

They've all got their strong points & weaknesses. Leadership is unquestionably a strength of JFF (imo).
You have been fair in your analysis from the get-go. I don't have a problem with your take. Your concerns about his ability to read a defense or solve problems at the LOS are well-founded. My response to that would be that Manziel has already proven to be a smart guy. All of the comparisons to Vince Young are just lazy and asinine. If Manziel puts in the time and effort, he will learn the QB position.

Can we put a ton of stock into the Wonderlic? Yes and no. Do you want your QB to get a VY score on it? No. But does a high Wonderlic mean a QB will be great? Of course not! But it does show the guy has some mental acumen. Combine the mental aspect with great athleticism, a good arm, and great accuracy, and you have a potential game changing QB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agproducer View Post
I think the Gruden camp was a little revealing about Manziel's knowledge. He so much as admitted that he knew the correct read, but tried to push it. that's the thing about Manziel. He knew the Aggie D was terrible last year, so he took a few more chances trying to push the ball down the field. He knew that A&M had to score a TD on almost every single drive to have a shot at winning. That's a lot of pressure on a guy.

I think Johnny has grown since he declared for the draft. The guy has succeeded at every level, but has also shown he can deal with adversity.

I believe he's the best pick and will alter the Texans franchise for the better.

I would rather Manziel come here and if he flops (which I don't think he will), then go elsewhere -- especially in the Texans' division, and beat their faces in for 10+ years.
I'm glad you mentioned the Gruden QB Camp. I was already sold on Manziel but after watching that, it was the icing on the cake for me. Plus, Gruden seemed VERY impressed by Manziel.

So many posters when evaluating Manziel fail to recognize the porous defense Manziel was playing with. He literally had to attempt to score a TD every single drive. There was good reason for him to not take the sure thing and attempt to force it down the field. And guess what? A whole bunch of times those passes were successful.

Coach him up, get him on a team with a good defense, and teach him to stop always trying to make the homerun play (something Gruden touched on A LOT with his focus on checkdowns), and this is a QB that could change the Texans fortunes. It will devastate me if we pass on him, and he ends up tearing it up in the league. But as I have already stated, I will root for Johnny Football no matter where he ends up (except Nashville...).
Say Watt is offline  
Sponsored links
Old 04-25-2014   #3428
Say Watt
Site Contributor
 
Say Watt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,889
Rep Power: 44894 Say Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by agproducer View Post
The similarities to the 2006 draft are mindblowing. In that draft, I wanted Reggie Bush. When healthy, he is still a gamechanger and playmaker.

Mario worked out great for the Texans, but I don't think he was the dominating force they hoped he'd be. He's been a very good DE, but I think Mario disappeared a lot when the Texans needed him most.

I worry that will be the same if the Texans take Clowney.
Mario is the absolute ceiling for Jadeveon Clowney.

But you're right. It is somewhat similar to 2006. Only there is no Vince Young in this case. VY was an idiot. Plain and simple. All the athletic talent in the world, and none of the mental acumen necessary in an NFL QB. Perhaps Manziel is the Reggie Bush and Clowney is Mario. And if it had only been Reggie Bush and Mario in the 2006 draft, I think most posters would have rather had Reggie (although in hindsight Mario turned out to be a better pick, at least for the first few years).
Say Watt is offline  
Old 04-25-2014   #3429
agproducer
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Houston
Posts: 32
Rep Power: 0 agproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

I will also root for Johnny wherever he goes, except Nashville or Jacksonville. I want him to succeed, and I think he will tear it up. I just want him to do it for the Texans.
agproducer is offline  
Old 04-25-2014   #3430
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 42
Posts: 34,989
Rep Power: 264424 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by agproducer View Post
I think Johnny has grown since he declared for the draft. The guy has succeeded at every level, but has also shown he can deal with adversity.
Agreed
__________________
thunderkyss is offline  
Old 04-25-2014   #3431
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 42
Posts: 34,989
Rep Power: 264424 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB View Post
So you're not a Texans fan?
Even if he's a Manziel fan....... welcome aboard. Right?

Don't matter how they get here, just as long as they are here.
__________________
thunderkyss is offline  
Old 04-25-2014   #3432
agproducer
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Houston
Posts: 32
Rep Power: 0 agproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

No, I'm a huge Texans fan. They are my favorite team of all sports.

For me it is Texans>Aggies>Astros>Rockets>Dynamo.
agproducer is offline  
Old 04-25-2014   #3433
bah007
Hall of Fame
 
bah007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Woodlands, TX
Posts: 8,678
Rep Power: 90044 bah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

This leadership thing sounds so much like Tebow it's scary.

I know a lot of you guys pushing for Manziel are Aggies (I know some aren't) and I think it's great that you're supporting your guy. But you sound exactly like the Texas fans when Vince came out and the SEC fans when Tebow came out.

I'm not saying Manziel is the same player as those two. I think he's better. But all of this talk is just so familiar. All of this "IT", "leader", and "competitor" stuff is great but it's not what counts. That stuff can make a good player great, and it can make a great player a legend, but it has nothing to do with the fundamental questions about Manziel's ability to transition his game to the NFL. Hundreds of guys with those three qualities never made it.
bah007 is offline  
Old 04-25-2014   #3434
agproducer
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Houston
Posts: 32
Rep Power: 0 agproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

I can see your Tebow opinion, but Manziel is no Tebow. The stats are comparable though. Manziel came close to matching Tebow's numbers in just two years.

In Tebow's 4 years at FLA

Passing: 661 cmp/995 att, 66.4% comp%, 9285 yds, 9.3 yds/att, 88 TD 16 INT (5300 yds were against SEC opponents -- 60% comp against Alabama)
Rushing: 2947 yds, 4.3. yds/att, 57 TD (1860 yds vs SEC opponents)

His lower completion percentages were against SEC opponents. Look at the splits.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/...ebow-1/splits/


In Manziel's 2 yrs at A&M:
Passing: 595/863, 68.9%, 7820 yds, 9.1 y/att, 63 TD, 22 INT (4984 against SEC opponents. His completion percentage against SEC teams is close to 70% -- against Alabama 74%)
Rushing: 2169 yds, 6.3 y/att, 30 TD

Here are Johnny's splits:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/...ziel-1/splits/


Tebow passed for over 3000 yards in a season just once. Both seasons at A&M, JFF passed for 3700+ yards. His completion percentage also improved year to year. Tebow's stayed stagnant. Tebow also had 200+ rushing attempts twice. JFF, once and that was 201 in 2012. Last year, he had 144 ATT.

Tebow was a good college QB. I think if he would have been given more time in Denver, he could have developed. But, I believe Manziel is light years ahead of Tebow. VY is also not quite a fair comparison. He didn't have nearly the passing stats as JFF. Here are VY's stats:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/...e-young-1.html

Just sayin'.
agproducer is offline  
Old 04-25-2014   #3435
bah007
Hall of Fame
 
bah007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Woodlands, TX
Posts: 8,678
Rep Power: 90044 bah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by agproducer View Post
I can see your Tebow opinion, but Manziel is no Tebow. The stats are comparable though. Manziel came close to matching Tebow's numbers in just two years.

In Tebow's 4 years at FLA

Passing: 661 cmp/995 att, 66.4% comp%, 9285 yds, 9.3 yds/att, 88 TD 16 INT (5300 yds were against SEC opponents -- 60% comp against Alabama)
Rushing: 2947 yds, 4.3. yds/att, 57 TD (1860 yds vs SEC opponents)

His lower completion percentages were against SEC opponents. Look at the splits.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/...ebow-1/splits/


In Manziel's 2 yrs at A&M:
Passing: 595/863, 68.9%, 7820 yds, 9.1 y/att, 63 TD, 22 INT (4984 against SEC opponents. His completion percentage against SEC teams is close to 70% -- against Alabama 74%)
Rushing: 2169 yds, 6.3 y/att, 30 TD

Here are Johnny's splits:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/...ziel-1/splits/


Tebow passed for over 3000 yards in a season just once. Both seasons at A&M, JFF passed for 3700+ yards. His completion percentage also improved year to year. Tebow's stayed stagnant. Tebow also had 200+ rushing attempts twice. JFF, once and that was 201 in 2012. Last year, he had 144 ATT.

Tebow was a good college QB. I think if he would have been given more time in Denver, he could have developed. But, I believe Manziel is light years ahead of Tebow. VY is also not quite a fair comparison. He didn't have nearly the passing stats as JFF. Here are VY's stats:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/...e-young-1.html

Just sayin'.
I already said in my previous post that I think Manziel is better than those two guys so comparing the stats is a worthless exercise to me.

My biggest concern with Manziel has been laid out multiple times in this thread. I just don't see his game translating to the NFL. It's that simple for me. He's going down as an all time college great, but that doesn't guarantee success at the next level. I don't see the necessary skill set that the NFL requires, and no amount of it factor, leadership ability, and competitive drive is going to change that.
bah007 is offline  
Old 04-25-2014   #3436
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 42
Posts: 34,989
Rep Power: 264424 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
This leadership thing sounds so much like Tebow it's scary.

I know a lot of you guys pushing for Manziel are Aggies (I know some aren't) and I think it's great that you're supporting your guy. But you sound exactly like the Texas fans when Vince came out and the SEC fans when Tebow came out.

I'm not saying Manziel is the same player as those two. I think he's better. But all of this talk is just so familiar. All of this "IT", "leader", and "competitor" stuff is great but it's not what counts. That stuff can make a good player great, and it can make a great player a legend, but it has nothing to do with the fundamental questions about Manziel's ability to transition his game to the NFL. Hundreds of guys with those three qualities never made it.
Well, I didn't bring it up to answer that question. That's a totally different question. For me, it's just part of the puzzle. Like size is part of the puzzle. Some people get bent out of shape because some of us do factor in size & level of competition.

Pieces of a complete picture, that's all I'm talking about.

Both agproducer & myself stated how we believe Johnny has done a lot of things right to make up for some things he did not get exposed to in college. He showed us how he's been working on his game since the season ended at his pro-day & on Gruden's football camp.

and unlike some I'm only saying Manziel is one of the QBs I'd be very happy to see this team acquire... and I don't want to see him taken with the #1 overall.
__________________
thunderkyss is offline  
Old 04-25-2014   #3437
agproducer
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Houston
Posts: 32
Rep Power: 0 agproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respectedagproducer is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Unlike TK, I want the Texans to take 1.1 because I don't think he will be there after Jax or Cle. I think if you like him, you take him.

I'm not sold on Bortles. I'd be satisfied with TB later in the first. I question the competition they've played.

If the Texans took Clowney, then traded him for picks, that could work too. But, I think JFF is the way to go.
agproducer is offline  
Old 04-25-2014   #3438
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
 
Carr Bombed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Wherever the US govt. sends me
Posts: 13,928
Rep Power: 99567 Carr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
This leadership thing sounds so much like Tebow it's scary.

I know a lot of you guys pushing for Manziel are Aggies (I know some aren't) and I think it's great that you're supporting your guy. But you sound exactly like the Texas fans when Vince came out and the SEC fans when Tebow came out.

I'm not saying Manziel is the same player as those two. I think he's better. But all of this talk is just so familiar. All of this "IT", "leader", and "competitor" stuff is great but it's not what counts. That stuff can make a good player great, and it can make a great player a legend, but it has nothing to do with the fundamental questions about Manziel's ability to transition his game to the NFL. Hundreds of guys with those three qualities never made it.
What is scary about Tebow's leadership? That was the only plus/elite quality about him. I hope every QB that played for my team could at least have half the leadership qualities that Tebow had.. The problem with him was he just couldn't throw the ball.. But he had everything you wanted as far as being a leader goes.
Carr Bombed is offline  
Old 04-25-2014   #3439
Say Watt
Site Contributor
 
Say Watt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,889
Rep Power: 44894 Say Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respectedSay Watt is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
This leadership thing sounds so much like Tebow it's scary.

I know a lot of you guys pushing for Manziel are Aggies (I know some aren't) and I think it's great that you're supporting your guy. But you sound exactly like the Texas fans when Vince came out and the SEC fans when Tebow came out.

I'm not saying Manziel is the same player as those two. I think he's better. But all of this talk is just so familiar. All of this "IT", "leader", and "competitor" stuff is great but it's not what counts. That stuff can make a good player great, and it can make a great player a legend, but it has nothing to do with the fundamental questions about Manziel's ability to transition his game to the NFL. Hundreds of guys with those three qualities never made it.
I understand why you guys think this is so much like 2006 but when you make statements like the bold, it kind of makes your comparison a bit stupid to be honest.

And by the way, I don't see a ton of Aggie fans coming out saying they are going to quit rooting for the Texans if they don't take him. If you'll remember, over half of Reliant Stadium was wearing Vince gear when he came to play the Texans that first time, but I don't hear a lot of posters on here saying that. And in fact, the two that have indicated recently that they WOULD root for him wherever he went (myself and agproducer) BOTH made the statement that we would root for him EXCEPT if he went to Tennessee.

You see, there is nothing that can ever be compared to the Vince situation. Watching the entire stadium erupt when Vince Young scrambled for that touchdown to win the game while playing for OUR FORMER TEAM was one of the most painful things to ever witness as a Texans fan. Had it been nearly any other team in the NFL, it wouldn't have hurt quite so much. But he did it for our bitter rival, Bud's Butt Boys, the Tennessee Titans.

Continue to compare this to the VY deal if you want to, but I think you are dead wrong. Not to mention, is it always bad to root for the local guy? Think if Earl Campbell came out in this day and age. Would it be just like 2006 if everyone wanted the local guy that can tote the rock?

There has been more than enough level-headed talk in this thread. Calling it just like 2006 is just lazy.
Say Watt is offline  
Old 04-25-2014   #3440
bah007
Hall of Fame
 
bah007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Woodlands, TX
Posts: 8,678
Rep Power: 90044 bah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Well, I didn't bring it up to answer that question. That's a totally different question. For me, it's just part of the puzzle. Like size is part of the puzzle. Some people get bent out of shape because some of us do factor in size & level of competition.

Pieces of a complete picture, that's all I'm talking about.

Both agproducer & myself stated how we believe Johnny has done a lot of things right to make up for some things he did not get exposed to in college. He showed us how he's been working on his game since the season ended at his pro-day & on Gruden's football camp.

and unlike some I'm only saying Manziel is one of the QBs I'd be very happy to see this team acquire... and I don't want to see him taken with the #1 overall.
I know where you're coming from. I have no issue with his intangibles being brought up. It is part of the package you get if you draft him. And his intangibles are off the chart. I just don't want people to get ahead of themselves and start putting the intangibles ahead of the tangibles when we're grading prospects.
bah007 is offline  
Closed Thread

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > Football Talk > College Football & the 2014 NFL Draft
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger