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Old 04-05-2014   #3301
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Where I fault Gary, is that Matt Schaub is not special. He never has been. He's pretty good & Gary made him look great at times, but he was never special.

So if I'm Gary Kubiak, I'm going to ride him until the wheels fall off, which he did & they did. However, I'd have been looking for a guy who might be special... maybe that's Keenum, maybe that's why we brought Lienart in, I don't know. But we passed on Mallet, taking Tj instead (maybe he thought Tj was special, I don't know)...

But when it came time to make a change at the QB position, we looked ill prepared. Tj wasn't ready to go & it didn't look like he wanted to help Case too much.

It took Harbaugh a year & a half to realize Alex Smith wasn't special & he was much better prepared to move forward than Kubiak was after seven seasons.
I can accept your logic. While I admire & fall victim to loyalty in life as a general rule this is a business under constant change, ebb & flow so you must embrace change & not let it be your downfall.

I'm not convinced Nick Foles is all that but I know Chip Kelly is & initial results are in- a resounding success. I'm really hoping, although I don't know him nearly as well that Bill O'Brian has similar success.
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Old 04-05-2014   #3302
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Where I fault Gary, is that Matt Schaub is not special. He never has been. He's pretty good & Gary made him look great at times, but he was never special.

So if I'm Gary Kubiak, I'm going to ride him until the wheels fall off, which he did & they did. However, I'd have been looking for a guy who might be special... maybe that's Keenum, maybe that's why we brought Lienart in, I don't know. But we passed on Mallet, taking Tj instead (maybe he thought Tj was special, I don't know)...

But when it came time to make a change at the QB position, we looked ill prepared. Tj wasn't ready to go & it didn't look like he wanted to help Case too much.

It took Harbaugh a year & a half to realize Alex Smith wasn't special & he was much better prepared to move forward than Kubiak was after seven seasons.
Anyone who leads the league in passing is a pretty special player. Schaub wasn't an all time great, but he was in the elite discussion in an era stacked with great QBs. When you have a guy that analysts are talking about on the same level as Rapistburger and E.Manning, you don't go out hunting for an upgrade.

Talking about Matt Schaub and Alex Smith in the same context of being "special" or not is just
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Old 04-05-2014   #3303
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Goatcheese View Post
Anyone who leads the league in passing is a pretty special player. Schaub wasn't an all time great, but he was in the elite discussion in an era stacked with great QBs. When you have a guy that analysts are talking about on the same level as Rapistburger and E.Manning, you don't go out hunting for an upgrade.

Talking about Matt Schaub and Alex Smith in the same context of being "special" or not is just
Schaub sometimes chewed up yardage in an offense meant for his skill set. Isn't that what many rant against, the "system QB"? I rooted for MS but he didn't perform well in other areas too frequently for my tastes. He was what we had with minimal opportunity to get a better QB for same costs.
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Old 04-05-2014   #3304
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Goatcheese View Post
Anyone who leads the league in passing is a pretty special player. Schaub wasn't an all time great, but he was in the elite discussion in an era stacked with great QBs. When you have a guy that analysts are talking about on the same level as Rapistburger and E.Manning, you don't go out hunting for an upgrade.

Talking about Matt Schaub and Alex Smith in the same context of being "special" or not is just

... I really don't have an answer for that.

I mean, I agree with you & I'd throw Flacco & Ryan in that convo as well. Sucks that our team wasn't very good when he got here, those first 4 years were pretty much wasted.
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Old 04-05-2014   #3305
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Default Re: Manziel

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This "ghetto tendencies" and "he plays black" conversation is one of the dumbest conversations I have ever seen on this board. We really are running out of things to talk about.
Patience Grasshopper for it shall pass.
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Old 04-05-2014   #3306
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Default Re: Manziel

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Patience Grasshopper for it shall pass.
So will a kidney stone but who wants to experience that? lol
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Old 04-06-2014   #3307
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
We'll just have to agree to disagree regarding that point. Talent sorely lacking in both players & every player brought in to "manage" the QB position. Luck has never favored steel blue, my point remains a QB guru should know better, be able to make adjustments & roll with it in a competent manner.


My point remains that after Schaub's injuries sapped him of his ability , ability that had him in a couple pro bowls , at the top of the league in passing statistics & winning back to back division titles , he had little to nothing to work with in terms of talent. You don't win games in the NFL when you lack talent at the most important position in the game.
He got a lot out of that shortage of talent , it just didn't equate to Wins. When teams made adjustments , Keenum fell apart. Several games were a tale of two halves.

That lack of talent I put on the guy who's job it is to build the roster (Rick Smith) but can give him a bit of a pass at the QB spot because what team has a player behind their starting QB that can pick up where the other guy left off without missing a beat. That answer would be .... None , Tom Brady wasn't sitting on the bench.

It was time for a coaching change here but I do find it difficult to blame the coach for a 2-14 record when his starting QB is broken physically , his backup cant read a defense , his star running back misses over half the season his backup plays with broken ribs , guy's like Jeff Tarpinian & Shilo Keo are playing meaningful time and 5 draft picks end up on IR or off the team.
At the end of the season , this team had street FA's in the backfield carrying the ball.

Last season Kubiak was coaching the perfect disaster, he didn't stand a chance. The fact that he was able to keep them competitive , 9 of those 14 losses were by 7 points or less says a lot about his ability as a coach.


Blaming Gary for "setting the franchise back at the QB position" is ludicrous. Injury to Schaub set them back. They went from having a pro bowl quarterback to a broken quarterback.


Quote:
Bridgewater is for sure more talented than anyone who has ever suited up to play QB as a Texan. Manziel has more competitive nature than Carr/Schaub combined plus he relates well with teammates.

Injuries are part of the game. I'm not concerned with either Manziel or Bridgewater getting injured more often because of size or measureable than any other QB prospect, they have pocket awareness ability to extend plays & huge heart for the game. Measure that!
I wont argue that , both are probably better prospects than any the Texans have had throughout their history.
I'm not concerned with either getting hurt either. I prefer Manziel but wouldn't complain about the team taking either of them knowing how important the position is.

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Instead of solving the Texan Franchise QB issue seems Kubiak set them back.
You simply cannot stand behind that statement.
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Old 04-06-2014   #3308
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Default Re: Manziel

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
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Fresh off his appearance at Saturday's Final Four, Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel is flying to Oakland to spend tonight and Monday with Raiders
His appearance? Was he requested? Did JFF get paid to "appear"? When he left, was it a disappearance?

NFL on ESPN ‏@ESPNNFL
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The @Texans @JJWatt at the Final Four tonight rooting his Wisconsin Badgers on. pic.twitter.com/SoPAjqtlJr
DPOY JJ Watt was just "at" the Final Four.


Schefty going all gossip columnist with Johnny Football.
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Old 04-06-2014   #3309
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter


His appearance? Was he requested? Did JFF get paid to "appear"? When he left, was it a disappearance?

NFL on ESPN ‏@ESPNNFL


DPOY JJ Watt was just "at" the Final Four.


Schefty going all gossip columnist with Johnny Football.
Really? Parsing words in a tweet?
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Old 04-06-2014   #3310
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Default Re: Manziel

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Really? Parsing words in a tweet?
Yep. I probably read ~400+ tweets a day -- when something stands out to me it stands out. Like this one...

Gil Brandt ‏@Gil_Brandt
Quote:
Just spoke with Johnny Manziel. He's on his way to Oakland to visit with Raiders officials over next 2 days. #NFLDraft
I wonder who called who? Does Bortles have Gil Brandt's digits? Did "the Godfather of the Draft" call Teddy today or Sammy or Greg? I'm curious that way.

After 2010 when Mel Kiper's outsized cheerleading for Jimmy Clausen led to the revelation that he was speaking regularly with Jimmy and then Kiper's relationship with Clausen's agent, my spidey sense get all tingley when I sense a "relationship" between media personality and prospect. Calls into question their objectivity, imo. Maybe it's just me.
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Old 04-06-2014   #3311
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Yep. I probably read ~400+ tweets a day -- when something stands out to me it stands out. Like this one...

Gil Brandt ‏@Gil_Brandt


I wonder who called who? Does Bortles have Gil Brandt's digits? Did "the Godfather of the Draft" call Teddy today or Sammy or Greg? I'm curious that way.

After 2010 when Mel Kiper's outsized cheerleading for Jimmy Clausen led to the revelation that he was speaking regularly with Jimmy and then Kiper's relationship with Clausen's agent, my spidey sense get all tingley when I sense a "relationship" between media personality and prospect. Calls into question their objectivity, imo. Maybe it's just me.
With the need for exclusivity and first-to-print, objectivity seems to be becoming a rarer and rarer bird.
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Old 04-06-2014   #3312
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
With the need for exclusivity and first-to-print, objectivity seems to be becoming a rarer and rarer bird.
To be clear I would be calling influential media types, flying them out to Cali for a day or three on me, and doing whatever else I could to maximize my chances and/or my brand if I had the resources. Manziel is smart and a winner -- nothing wrong that, imo.
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Old 04-06-2014   #3313
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Default Re: Manziel

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Cleveland Browns: Johnny Manziel, QB, Texas A&M
BOOM. Johnny Manziel has been in the top 5-8 of almost every single mock draft published on the Internet, but it wouldn't surprise me if he fell on Draft Day. It's happened to other quarterbacks before, and it could certainly happen to Manziel, as there are concerns about many things, including his party lifestyle, the manner in which he plays, his mechanics and his durability (size).

If we had heard this from one team, I might just consider it smoke, but multiple teams selecting early have issues with Manziel. Vikings' head coach Mike Zimmer also expressed his concerns with Manziel, so that's another team in the top 10 that won't pick him.

This is why I could see Manziel take a tumble into the 20s (it's no coincidence that the Patriots brought him in for a visit). If that occurs, perhaps the Browns will scoop him up at No. 26, or maybe one of the teams in the early portion of Round 2 will trade up for him.
http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/ar...refsrc=bloguin
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Manziel is dropping like a rock on some of these mocks. BTW, that's Clevelands 1.26, not their 1.4.
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Old 04-06-2014   #3314
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Default Re: Manziel

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http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/ar...refsrc=bloguin
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Manziel is dropping like a rock on some of these mocks. BTW, that's Clevelands 1.26, not their 1.4.
Like TV networks, many have to put something contrary out there to drive up ratings.
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Old 04-06-2014   #3315
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/ar...refsrc=bloguin
*********************
Manziel is dropping like a rock on some of these mocks. BTW, that's Clevelands 1.26, not their 1.4.
No one has any clue where anyone in this draft will go. There are so many questions marks in it with no sure-fire top picks. Plus, Manziel may be dropping in some mocks and rising to #1 in others, including the NFL.com mock draft. So what? In the end, they make zero difference. This guy had Geno Smith going at #7 (went 39th overall), B Mingo going 15th (went 6th) in his mock draft in early april just to name a few. And that's with the top 5-10 pretty well known.
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Old 04-06-2014   #3316
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Default Re: Manziel

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Manziel is dropping like a rock on some of these mocks. BTW, that's Clevelands 1.26, not their 1.4.
All of this dropping and rising must be giving these QBs motion-sickness.

I just can't figure out how they're getting worse over the last 2 months?
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Old 04-06-2014   #3317
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Default Re: Manziel

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All of this dropping and rising must be giving these QBs motion-sickness.

I just can't figure out how they're getting worse over the last 2 months?
They aren't.

But you've got to remember that what you're seeing isn't the rankings the teams have on these guys. What you're seeing is the Media's rankings.

Some of the media is ranking these guys based on looking at film and some of them are only now really getting the chance to see everyone.

But most of the media is trying to figure out how their prospective team (or the teams in general) have these guys ranked.

The teams, otoh, are whispering lies to the media to get other teams to misjudge how they actually have guys ranked.

So expecting "good" information from most of these sources is problematic because lying and deception is built into the system.
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Old 04-06-2014   #3318
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Default Re: Manziel

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Blaming Gary for "setting the franchise back at the QB position" is ludicrous. Injury to Schaub set them back. They went from having a pro bowl quarterback to a broken quarterback. You simply cannot stand behind that statement.
seriously dude, it's not like the position is a strength or set-up for the next 10 years is it? what am I missing? blame it all on Schaub's injury's. that goes for any QB but you still need a back-up plan, you need to address the QB position especially after you told Mr. McNair you could fix Carr & gave him another big fat multi-million dollar extension. Gary didn't fee the "need" to draft a QB any higher than #152 in 2011 draft. let Sage implode then leave, what next bring in Dan Orlovsky? a crippled Matt Leinart, washed up Rex Grossman.... I can't extend this conversation, you & me are simply at odds & will never see eye to eye, that Kubiak is the one who is responsible for this mess we are now having to deal with
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Old 04-06-2014   #3319
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Default Re: Manziel

I don't like kubiak as a head coach at all, and I don't think Schaub was ever as good as his numbers would indicate.

But what is this setting the franchise up at qb for many years? Who does that?

Outside of some lucky teams, who has multiple good or great qb's one right after the other?
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Old 04-06-2014   #3320
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Default Re: Manziel

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seriously dude, it's not like the position is a strength or set-up for the next 10 years is it? what am I missing? blame it all on Schaub's injury's. that goes for any QB but you still need a back-up plan, you need to address the QB position especially after you told Mr. McNair you could fix Carr & gave him another big fat multi-million dollar extension. Gary didn't fee the "need" to draft a QB any higher than #152 in 2011 draft. let Sage implode then leave, what next bring in Dan Orlovsky? a crippled Matt Leinart, washed up Rex Grossman.... I can't extend this conversation, you & me are simply at odds & will never see eye to eye, that Kubiak is the one who is responsible for this mess we are now having to deal with
So we have a pro bowl quarterback in Schaub , who gets hurt , we have nothing behind him and that's on Gary Kubiak ?! Who's job is it to build the roster ?! Is the GM there just to look pretty ?!


How many teams have a backup who steps in and is as good or better than the previous starter ?!
I guess you expect the next Tom Brady to be waiting in the wings behind Bledsoe ?!
There have been three teams in the history of the NFL (or at least for as long as I've been watching) that had a pro bowl type quarterback behind their pro bowl starter - The 49ers with Montana & Young , The Patriots with Bledsoe & Brady and finally The Packers with Favre and Rodgers.

Every other team I can think of would be in the same situation this Texans team is in.

As for Kubiak telling McNair he could fix HWWNBM , that's an assumption not a fact. What we do know is that he gave HHWNBM a year to prove he was the guy or not , when it was apparent he wasn't , he cut bait and acquired a guy named Schaub who put up numbers over multiple years that only five players in the history of the league had done previous.
The position was not in question for 6+ years, other than when Schaub was injured.

The bottom line is that a healthy Schaub was a pro bowl quarterback and the position was not in question with him on the field. The only reason he's not the Texans starting QB in 2014 is injury.


Blaming Kubiak is just silly , especially when its the GM's job to fill out the roster.
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