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Old 04-03-2014   #3301
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Goatcheese View Post
What exactly is "playing black"?

Did Warren Moon "play black"?

If they're just hating on Manziel (white guy) because he's too black (yeah, that makes sense), then why do most of the anti Manziel people want Bridgewater (who is actually black)?
It's stereotyping. The idea of "playing black" means to use your athleticism a lot & showboat. "Playing white" means you use your intellect and play more reserved. So yes in your examples, Warren Moon and Teddy Bridgewater "play white" along with actual white guys like Brady, Manning, and Brees. Meanwhile Manziel & Kaepernick along with black guys like Vick, Young, & RG3 "play black".

It's dumb, I agree. But we humans love to classify. We can't handle our world unless we are able to neatly fit things, and even people, into perfect categories so as to easily understand the world we live in.
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Old 04-03-2014   #3302
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
If you're saying you'll reach & take him at 6.... I can understand that. But if you think he's the 6th best prospect in this draft, you gotta take him at 1 & not play any games.

We've only got two holes on the offensive line. RT & LG. & we might have one of the two on the team already.
Maybe I'm misreading your post, but why wouldn't I take the guy I think is the best prospect rather than the 6th best at #1?
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Old 04-03-2014   #3303
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Default Re: Manziel

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absolutely agree on a lot of the flack manziel is getting is because of closet racists trying to pin fake scandals on him and this labeling of "playing black" is just more evidence of it.

i mean we are in texas right?

home of the bigoted republican tea party, jesus freaks, and unabashed racists. A lot of this manziel hate is coming from that area. They want their typical choir boy white guy with the fake perfect citizen act.

I absolutely love cocky, arrogant guys. Those guys are winners.

Usain Bolt
Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant
Muhammad Ali
Lebron James
Floyd Mayweather Jr.

All cocky guys. All winners.


Havent we had enough "humble" qbs that have failed us time and time again?

Its also a generational thing. The older fans want that quiet, robotic, fake humble guy while the younger generation love that flashy, stylish, arrogant player.

Its always been this way since rock and roll.

Manziel fans are prime about to explode led zeppelin fans. While Blake Bortle fans are the old geezers who still cling to the stale old and utterly lame and safe Beatles records.

and LOL at the poster who said RG3 was humble.

loooooooooooooooooooooool

RG3 is the epitome of a fake humble nice guy. a guy who portrays one side to the public and in reality is a utterly selfish, narcissistic attention whore.
Floyd Mayweather doesn't deserve to be on that list.
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Old 04-04-2014   #3304
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Dan B. View Post
Maybe I'm misreading your post, but why wouldn't I take the guy I think is the best prospect rather than the 6th best at #1?
It's the QB factor. If you need a QB & there's one in the draft that you feel really good about, you take him even if you think there are five better non QB prospects available. Simply because he is a QB & a QB has that much impact on the game.

Whether you take a guy 5 spots early or 6 spots early or even 10 spots early is purely subjective, for me, it's 5 spots..... 6 is a stretch (for me, determined by need, i.e. if your need is bad enough), 7 the guy has to be really special (i.e. Cam Newton), 8 there is no good reason in my mind to pass on 8 elite players.

In the Cam Newton example, he was rated at 16 (I think) but was taken #1 overall. I'm saying I wouldn't have done that, if I thought there were 15 players better than he was. I didn't rate the players in that draft, but using hindsight it's hard to see anyone thinking there were 16 better players in that draft... but that's hindsight for you. Even the six or seven that I would think were better, Cam has done his part to prove he was definitely the best player in that draft... I think.

Maybe the second best player.
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Old 04-04-2014   #3305
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Default Re: Manziel

Johnny Manziel Looking to Secure Numerous Trademarks
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According to ESPN sports business reporter Darren Rovell, Manziel has filed for several trademarks in addition to the "Johnny Football" nickname, including "The House That Johnny Built."

On Wednesday, TMZ Sports reported that Manziel filed documents with the United States Patent and Trademark Office in an effort to secure the rights to multiple modifications of his name and number. Some of them include "JFF," "JMAN," "JMAN 2" and "ManzIIel."
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Old 04-04-2014   #3306
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
It's the QB factor. If you need a QB & there's one in the draft that you feel really good about, you take him even if you think there are five better non QB prospects available. Simply because he is a QB & a QB has that much impact on the game.

Whether you take a guy 5 spots early or 6 spots early or even 10 spots early is purely subjective, for me, it's 5 spots..... 6 is a stretch (for me, determined by need, i.e. if your need is bad enough), 7 the guy has to be really special (i.e. Cam Newton), 8 there is no good reason in my mind to pass on 8 elite players.

In the Cam Newton example, he was rated at 16 (I think) but was taken #1 overall. I'm saying I wouldn't have done that, if I thought there were 15 players better than he was. I didn't rate the players in that draft, but using hindsight it's hard to see anyone thinking there were 16 better players in that draft... but that's hindsight for you. Even the six or seven that I would think were better, Cam has done his pa arrt to prove he was definitely the best player in that draft... I think.

Maybe the second best player.
But let's stay with that 2011 Draft and do some more analysis.
OK, I think you are saying that Watt has been the best player in that Draft but Cam has been the MVP in that Draft, but let's look at some other QBs/players taken that year. Gabbert @ #10 and Ponder @ #12 were mistakes, though it's still soon to write them off entirely, but clearly 2 of the 3 first-round QBs in 2011 have been big disappointments.
What about later picks like second-rounders Andy Dalton and Colin Kaepernick or even third rounder Ryan Mallet. Would you trade JJ Watt right now for Dalton, Kaepernick, or Mallet. And if not, can't that be compared to drafting Clowney this year and later Garrappolo, or Mettenburg, or McCarron vs taking Bortles or Manziel with the #1 ?
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Old 04-04-2014   #3307
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
...but let's look at some other QBs/players taken that year. Gabbert @ #10 and Ponder @ #12 were mistakes, though it's still soon to write them off entirely, but clearly 2 of the 3 first-round QBs in 2011 have been big disappointments.


What about later picks like second-rounders Andy Dalton and Colin Kaepernick or even third rounder Ryan Mallet. Would you trade JJ Watt right now for Dalton, Kaepernick, or Mallet. And if not, can't that be compared to drafting Clowney this year and later Garrappolo, or Mettenburg, or McCarron vs taking Bortles or Manziel with the #1 ?
A lot of that depends on the team & a couple of other variables like where we are in the draft who is available & who we expect to be available. I think I agree with you if you're saying we should take Clowney in the first then one of the other QBs in the second (but I want Robinson/McCarron).

Carolina, who took Cam and didn't have a second round pick, so they didn't have that option. Had they taken Von Miller, Nick Fairley, or Marcell, they wouldn't have been able to get a QB until 65.... they could have gotten Mallet, but that's a heck of a gamble. Unless they had Tj Yates in that same tier, which I doubt.

Jacksonville could have done it differently & gotten a better defensive player & a QB who couldn't do much worse than Gabbert..... but he was the #1 rated QB at the time & they were so screwed up it probably wouldn't have mattered.

Minnesota could have done it differently & gotten a better defensive player... but I liked their defense at the time & Ponder looked like a good pick to me. I didn't grade QBs for that draft (I didn't think we'd be taking one), then watching Ponder in the NFL, he looked like he had all the tools, with a decent defense & Adrian Peterson, you'd have thought he would make it. Sometimes, things just don't work out.

A big part in this... is not just the team but the staff to develop a QB. If Kubiak was here, I'd be willing to take a shot on a lot more of these QBs. I think he's every bit as good as "they" say he is at developing QBs. Bill O'Brien, I don't know but what I hear leads me to believe he's got game & can take a guy projected to be a starter & help him become a pro bowl level QB. That same QB can go to Oakland & I wouldn't feel as good about his chances of being successful.
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Old 04-04-2014   #3308
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
A lot of that depends on the team & a couple of other variables like where we are in the draft who is available & who we expect to be available. I think I agree with you if you're saying we should take Clowney in the first then one of the other QBs in the second (but I want Robinson/McCarron).

Carolina, who took Cam and didn't have a second round pick, so they didn't have that option. Had they taken Von Miller, Nick Fairley, or Marcell, they wouldn't have been able to get a QB until 65.... they could have gotten Mallet, but that's a heck of a gamble. Unless they had Tj Yates in that same tier, which I doubt.

Jacksonville could have done it differently & gotten a better defensive player & a QB who couldn't do much worse than Gabbert..... but he was the #1 rated QB at the time & they were so screwed up it probably wouldn't have mattered.

Minnesota could have done it differently & gotten a better defensive player... but I liked their defense at the time & Ponder looked like a good pick to me. I didn't grade QBs for that draft (I didn't think we'd be taking one), then watching Ponder in the NFL, he looked like he had all the tools, with a decent defense & Adrian Peterson, you'd have thought he would make it. Sometimes, things just don't work out.

A big part in this... is not just the team but the staff to develop a QB. If Kubiak was here, I'd be willing to take a shot on a lot more of these QBs. I think he's every bit as good as "they" say he is at developing QBs. Bill O'Brien, I don't know but what I hear leads me to believe he's got game & can take a guy projected to be a starter & help him become a pro bowl level QB. That same QB can go to Oakland & I wouldn't feel as good about his chances of being successful.
So is there a QB who is a better pro prospect than Cam this year ?
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Old 04-04-2014   #3309
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Don't be distracted by what I've done in the past. Don't worry about drafting me........Now, I'm all about Football.............From now on, I will eat, sleep and spend Football..............Johnny Football...........

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Old 04-04-2014   #3310
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Don't be distracted by what I've done in the past. Don't worry about drafting me........Now, I'm all about Football.............From now on, I will eat, sleep and spend Football..............Johnny Football...........

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/...ontinuous=true
This just in ..... the Johnny Football camp now have the rights to " eat , sleep , and drink football " .
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Old 04-04-2014   #3311
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Don't be distracted by what I've done in the past. Don't worry about drafting me........Now, I'm all about Football.............From now on, I will eat, sleep and spend Football..............Johnny Football...........
His work ethic has never been questioned by his coaches or scouts. The main issue is can he avoid getting caught up up distractions. And considering how well he focused this past season and how much he worked and improved from the bowl game till his pro day, he's done a pretty good job of showing that he is for real.
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Old 04-04-2014   #3312
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Default Re: Manziel

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Considering how much he worked and improved from the bowl game till his pro day, he's done a pretty good job of showing that he is sincere.
You really think a 3 mos effort with millions of dollars on the line is a good indication of anything?

This is one of those one way street things. Failing during a 3 mos period would have been a major black mark. Succeeding for 3 mos should be a "he damn well better have."
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Old 04-04-2014   #3313
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Default Re: Manziel

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You really think a 3 mos effort with millions of dollars on the line is a good indication of anything?

This is one of those one way street things. Failing during a 3 mos period would have been a major black mark. Succeeding for 3 mos should be a "he damn well better have."
It's not just three months. once the season started he was all business. And when the season ended, he didn't go out partying or making scenes, he went out and worked to improve and get ready for the NFL.
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Old 04-04-2014   #3314
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Default Re: Manziel

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His work ethic has never been questioned by his coaches or scouts. The main issue is can he avoid getting caught up up distractions. And considering how well he focused this past season and how much he worked and improved from the bowl game till his pro day, he's done a pretty good job of showing that he is for real.
No man, that's not the only issue, it's just one of several. Another is can he contain himself from scrambling around like it's a sandlot game so he won't get his narrow little azz broken into a thousand pieces by a LB or safety ? And if he's able to do that, what kind of a QB is left without the razz-ma-tazz of Johhny Football ? And can he put enough mustard on his deep out to get it there without it being picked off ? And is he able to handle coaching, or does he already consider himself such an expert on QB play in the NFL that there's no one left to teach him anything ?
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Old 04-04-2014   #3315
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Default Re: Manziel

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It's not just three months. once the season started he was all business. And when the season ended, he didn't go out partying or making scenes, he went out and worked to improve and get ready for the NFL.
Then criticize your own statement. You said bowl game to pro day. That's what I responded about.
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Old 04-04-2014   #3316
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Default Re: Manziel

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So is there a QB who is a better pro prospect than Cam this year ?
Like I said, I didn't grade those QBs for that draft, so I don't really know what they looked like coming out of college. I'm just going by where they were rated by the regular media folk.

As it is, it's difficult to take out hindsight. Knowing what I know now, I do not expect anybody in this draft to have the impact Cam had on his team as a rookie.
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Old 04-04-2014   #3317
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Like I said, I didn't grade those QBs for that draft, so I don't really know what they looked like coming out of college. I'm just going by where they were rated by the regular media folk.

As it is, it's difficult to take out hindsight. Knowing what I know now, I do not expect anybody in this draft to have the impact Cam had on his team as a rookie.
The concerns on Cam IIRC , was his experience as a college football player and the offense he ran . There was no doubt about the physical part .

At Auburn he won the Heisman and a National Championship so he had the pelts on the wall .

Having said all that , it would have been hard to pick a QB 1st in 2011 .
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Old 04-04-2014   #3318
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Then criticize your own statement. You said bowl game to pro day. That's what I responded about.
I edited my post, but you were too quick.
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Old 04-04-2014   #3319
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I edited my post, but you were too quick.
Sorry that last one came across snarkier than intended.
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Old 04-04-2014   #3320
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Default Re: Manziel

Did Roger Staubach, Fran Tarkenton, and John Elway "play black"? All three of these dudes could scramble with the best of them. Difference between their styles and many modern QBs is that they would scramble to get someone open. Many of today's QBs seem to be run-when-primary-WR-is-covered.

Go back and look at highlights of Staubach, Tarkenton, or Elway. Those guys could run for dozens of yards behind the line of scrimmage. But that was before QBs wore virtual skirts. They knew defenders could knock the crap out of them if they tries to run vertical.

The whole "playing black" thing should be a description that fans and media avoid and do not fall into the trap of using. It's ridiculous and ignores the greats of NFL history. JMO
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