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Old 03-31-2014   #3201
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
Weird, never heard that angle before.

Why is their any Boselli Bitterness if he was the tax to pay for getting Walker and Payne?
"Fortunately for the Jaguars' cap situation, three of those roughly 12-18 players the Texans select today will likely be from Jacksonville. Jaguars offensive tackle Tony Boselli and defensive tackles Gary Walker and Seth Payne were flown to Houston yesterday to appear at the draft, all with the assurance they will be chosen by the Texans.

Boselli, the first pick in Jaguars history seven years ago, appears likely to be the first player taken by Houston. The Texans don't plan to choose wide receiver Keenan McCardell or offensive lineman Zach Wiegert, the other two players on the Jaguars' expansion list."
http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/st...g_8648931.html


"selli, 31, who never played a down for the Houston Texans after being their top pick in last year's expansion draft, addressed the local media for the first time since word of his decision to retire was made public earlier this week. He said he believes the November 2001 surgery by team doctors with his former team, Jacksonville, was the beginning of the end.

"I have a lot of questions and concerns about how that was handled because my left shoulder was better before I went into surgery than it ever has been since," said Boselli, adding that treatment and a follow-up procedure by Texans team surgeon Dr. Walter Lowe a year ago has helped, but the shoulder hurts "24 hours a day."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo...selli_reax_ap/
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Old 03-31-2014   #3202
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Default Re: Manziel

The penis measuring around here is sometimes unbearable.
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Old 03-31-2014   #3203
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
In fact, the link you provided would actually be a good argument that the defenders should be reading the QB more often than the OL.

If they did that, then when it was an actual run play, they'd get gashed. And it still wouldn't help them against the pass.

(Not saying this in an insulting way for you sensitive folks but...) That makes no sense.

You're looking at the QB and then this guard comes and wipes you out?

If you want to re-write football techniques and schemes, go ahead. But you should first learn how some current ones work.

Different coaches will tell their guys different things as to how to sniff out the play fake...Maybe the offense isn't as well disciplined and the coach has found a tell...Maybe they don't run it the "exact" same way...Maybe there is a dissimilarity in the play.

The reason that the Texans stretch play action fake was so successful is because the stretch run and the bootleg looked exactly the same. I wasn't on the field and I wasn't in the meeting rooms to see if there were any slight tells, but just from casually watching them and knowing what I know, I'd say that they were very well coached in this aspect as a team.

And seeing the game from an OL perspective, and being told several times how important it was to sell it and being explained the reason for it by college coaches, former and current NFL players...I know that Schaub wasn't "the main reason" that the play action was so successful here.

Again, if you want to learn something...I'm happy to explain. But seriously I'm tired of all this
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Old 03-31-2014   #3204
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
I do happen to know what the defenders are reading. As a LCB, my first key was the RG. My second key was the QB. And then I lock onto my WR. You seem to be under the impression that the defense only reads one key, as if what the QB does is unimportant as long as his line makes the play look like a run. That is simply untrue.
You're creating a narrative in your head.

Probably should go back and re-read.

I have not said anything about anyone NOT being important.

I simply said that if you think Schaub was THE MOST important aspect. You're wrong. The end. For real this time.

And honestly, the Corner making his initial read the guard sounds like a middle school or highschool technique. But I'd honestly be interested in hearing more about that...pm me
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Old 03-31-2014   #3205
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by _King_ View Post
Again, You are wrong on both accounts.
Well you've done nothing to show or even effectively argue either. See bah007 for how to make an attempt if you would like.

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The reason I gave the break down of the zbs was to outline why the QB wasn't THE key piece. Why it's more scheme based, and why no one player has to be extra special or in your words "elite" at faking the pass.
You played with crayons. You didn't break anything down. You made a generalization about ZBS, one with an implication applied in your analysis that any appearance of being above average was the product of the system. To call a spade a spade - that's friggin' moronic. Name the QB you think has the best play fake ever. Stick him in ZBS he doesn't become a product of the system. I didn't say any position had to be extra special or elite. Watch closely and read it a little more slowly - the QB is the (in case needs explanation, not only but most important) key piece in the equation. If he fails everything everyone else is doing is for naught. AND Schaub didn't have to be elite, but he was at building the whole picture which makes play action work which an expert like you should know involves more than just the fake handoff.

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You should stop looking for reasons to have your football intelligence insulted and just be open to learning.
LOL. I am not one of those who said you were being insulting although you most certainly were condescending. Trust me, I'm not insulted by you. At the moment just more than a little amused because I think you have been and are going to continue to dig yourself deeper into the crap you have laid down. Carry on.
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Old 03-31-2014   #3206
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Default Re: Manziel

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2+2 = 5
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Old 03-31-2014   #3207
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by _King_ View Post
If they did that, then when it was an actual run play, they'd get gashed. And it still wouldn't help them against the pass.
Wasn't your link making the argument that keying on the OL was a reason the defenses were getting gashed by the pass? You have multiple keys. Offensive minded coaches and fans always seem to see the defense as simplistic, when actually it is quite often the opposite.

Offensively, unless you were calling for a half-field read you wouldn't want your QB to only look at one safety and ignore the other while he was going through his progressions, would you? So why do you assume that the defenders only look at one single thing? A good defensive coaching staff would teach you to back up your first read by confirming it with your second read. That is precisely why the CB goes from OG to QB, and precisely why it is important for the QB to be good at play action. Because if I read run from the OG but pass from the QB I'm locking on to my WR.

Quote:
(Not saying this in an insulting way for you sensitive folks but...) That makes no sense.

You're looking at the QB and then this guard comes and wipes you out?

If you want to re-write football techniques and schemes, go ahead. But you should first learn how some current ones work.
In the reverse, should you just look at the OG while your WR runs right past you and the QB throws it over your head?

You quick read from OG to QB. You don't stare them down. As a CB, all I want to see from the OG is whether he comes forward or stands up. That tells me all I need to know from him. Then I move on.

I'm not re-writing anything. This was a common technique when I last played, and that was quite some time ago. Defense is reactionary. The offense dictates the action which means that the defender can only put himself in the right spot by reading his keys. Why would you limit yourself to only reading one person when there are 11 on the field? And if all defenses only key on the OL I would like to think that play action would work 100% of the time. Why does it not?

Quote:
Different coaches will tell their guys different things as to how to sniff out the play fake...Maybe the offense isn't as well disciplined and the coach has found a tell...Maybe they don't run it the "exact" same way...Maybe there is a dissimilarity in the play.
This is true. But right here you are acknowledging that the scheme is not always the most important part in diagnosing the play.

Quote:
The reason that the Texans stretch play action fake was so successful is because the stretch run and the bootleg looked exactly the same. I wasn't on the field and I wasn't in the meeting rooms to see if there were any slight tells, but just from casually watching them and knowing what I know, I'd say that they were very well coached in this aspect as a team.
They were very well coached. And Schaub was very good at his part of the design.

Quote:
And seeing the game from an OL perspective, and being told several times how important it was to sell it and being explained the reason for it by college coaches, former and current NFL players...I know that Schaub wasn't "the main reason" that the play action was so successful here.
And having played and watched the game from the DB perspective, and having conversations with numerous college coaches and former coaches over a number of years, I can assure you that the QB's part in the design of the play action pass is just as important as the blocking assignments, and probably more so.
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Old 03-31-2014   #3208
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Default Re: Manziel

And that's why I wasn't going to go into it. Message board is just a time sink for me when I'm bored..not doing much... Not going to get too in depth with long posts, screen shots, videos and such.

No harm not foul. Believe what you want. It's all good.
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Old 03-31-2014   #3209
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Default Re: Manziel

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Old 03-31-2014   #3210
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Nice!
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Old 03-31-2014   #3211
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by _King_ View Post
You should probably be asking to learn something instead of being so obtuse.

http://smartfootball.com/passing/a-v....6DVv4oRd.dpbs


If you don't know what the defenders are reading then of course you'd think the QB was "The most important" aspect of the play action success.

But you guys seem to be rejecting any education on the matter, so I'll let you wallow. Conversation has been fun though.
Hmm. You might want to find a better article to support your hypothesis.
Quote:
While much is rightfully made about whether a quarterback does an effective job of selling a run fake on play-action, the reality is that the offensive line plays just as big of a role in convincing a defense that a play is a run.
Let's see if we can simplify this, and the assertion you were making earlier. If line = QB in importance, and said line is composed of 5 players, and the QB is only one guy, then he's 5 times as important as anyone else.

So yes, the article supports the idea that QB is THE most important cog.
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Old 03-31-2014   #3212
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Default Re: Manziel

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"I think if you liked Johnny before, you like him more now. And if you didn't like Johnny coming in, you still don't like him," one NFC assistant coach who was in attendance said, after a few days to digest. "Johnny's his own guy. ... But there was energy, he took command of the group, it was well planned-out, he got them out of the huddle; the shoulder pads and helmet were a nice touch. And he threw the ball well. He threw the (expletive) out of the deep ball."
Quote:
"He did good," said one NFC area scout who's evaluated him for two years. "He did struggle to the left, and the ball fluttered when he'd try and force it in. Also, we didn't really see him drive it downfield."
Quote:
"I'd like to see him hitting more moving targets -- the crossers, the seam throws," one AFC college scouting director said. "It's not like he was throwing full-speed seams. A lot of it was a placement thing, and that's what he does well. You didn't see the full-speed crossing routes, dig routes. Even the one dig they ran, it wasn't really fast. I'd say the one thing I'd want is more of that.

"But even if he threw that stuff and did it well, his weakness is seeing the defense and delivering the ball over the middle of the field. Even if he did it there, that shouldn't change your opinion, because there aren't 11 defenders out there."

"If you're bringing him in, start throwing protections at him, then spend an hour or two passing him around the building to different people," the AFC college director said. "Then bring him back and see what he retains. ... You want to go over his (college) offense, too: What protection is this? What's this, what's that? Athletically, he's very good; his arm is plenty strong; accuracy is good enough. But you have to make sure he'll be able to perform and execute the offense you want him to run."
Quote:
"This process is exhaustive," Smith said. "And so, the more information you can obtain on a player about who he is -- not only as a football player, but as a man, so that you can project what you are adding to your organization -- the better. That's the part of the process that we're dealing with with all of these prospects."
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap20...rovide-context
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Old 03-31-2014   #3213
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Default Re: Manziel

Surprised I haven't seen this yet in this thread. Looks like Zimmer has the same concerns that I have.

Mike Zimmer on Manziel: There are some flags that come up
Posted by Josh Alper on March 31, 2014, 3:11 PM EDT



Quote:
In Sunday morning’s one-liners, there was a link to Vikings coach Mike Zimmer talking about his feeling that Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel’s pro day workout last week was a “sideshow.”

Zimmer shared some more of his thoughts about Manziel during an appearance on 104.9 The Horn in Austin, Texas on Monday. Manziel met with the Vikings on Friday for a workout and a dinner and Zimmer said that he tried to get some information to clear up some “question marks” he had about whether Manziel was going to do what it takes to be a great player or if he wanted to be “the celebrity man guy.”

“We asked him all kinds of questions. … There are some flags that come up. All of the things that happened out in Los Angeles, the commercials and all that stuff; the position of quarterback in the NFL is such an important position and the reason these guys need to be a totally football-minded guy is the pressure of the position and being the face of an NFL team and doing everything right,” Zimmer said, via the Minneapolis Star Tribune. “That’s the thing you want to know about him — will he be into work early every single day? Will be the last to leave? Will he be the guy that is working the hardest to get better?”

Zimmer cited Peyton Manning and Drew Brees when talking about the kind of focus — “eats, breaths, and sleeps football” — on the game that he wants to see from a quarterback and that the team has to figure out if Manziel will put in the same kind of time. There’s been a variety of opinions offered on that front since Manziel decided to enter the draft, but we don’t expect any teams to share their full opinion until Manziel’s name is called in May.
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Old 03-31-2014   #3214
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
The penis measuring around here is sometimes unbearable.


Ummmm...

I think your in the wrong thread.

Actually you might be on the wrong forum.
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Old 03-31-2014   #3215
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
Surprised I haven't seen this yet in this thread. Looks like Zimmer has the same concerns that I have.

Mike Zimmer on Manziel: There are some flags that come up
Posted by Josh Alper on March 31, 2014, 3:11 PM EDT
Not surprising really. You look at this draft & he's the only one with "real" star potential, yeah I'd be concerned. But if he's the only one with "star potential".....


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Old 03-31-2014   #3216
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Not surprising really. You look at this draft & he's the only one with "real" star potential, yeah I'd be concerned. But if he's the only one with "star potential".....


I'm surprised that Zimmer is taking his opinion public considering all the smokescreening that goes on before every draft....I might even be inclined to think this might be a smokescreen but Zimmer just doesn't strike me as that kinda guy.
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Old 03-31-2014   #3217
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
I do not think Pro Days are as influential as the media circus makes them out to be.

Every single talent evaluator talks about film. What matters is what players can do in games, not how great they can work out without opposition.

What a great Pro Day - and it's alleged "pressure with lights on" - tells me is that a specific player will be good at shooting television commercials.

I would lose respect for any franchise that values Pro Day and/or combine performances over actual game film.

Different type of player, but same media and fan driven overhype as that UT kid everyone wanted in 2006.
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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
When you look at the film , all the kid does is make plays .... against the very best competition the NCAA has to offer.


That other guy everyone wanted in 2006 .... was his own worst enemy.


You are right , film > pro day. But you have to understand that pro day is a pressure packed situation as its basically an interview for their future - Bridgewater flunked that test , Bortles made a C- and Manziel passed with flying colors.
I liked the analogy someone else made (can't remember if it was in this thread or not): look at the pro day like a job interview. The most important attribute is past success. Don't get so wrapped up in combines & pro days that you ignore the game tape. But at the same time, don't completely disregard the job interview. Does it have as much weight as past performance? Of course not! But if the guy totally lays an egg in the job interview, then perhaps he isn't the guy you want as part of your organization.

Look at the tape, and Manziel blows you away. Look at the job interview (pro day), and Manziel blows you away. Only decisions I am ok with are Manziel at 1 or a trade down. The same questions with Manziel (mostly based on him being a project player) are the same questions surrounding Clowney. Bortles nor Bridgewater should even be in the discussion. It really comes down to Manziel or Clowney and at that point, I believe you'd have to be a fool to take Clowney.
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Old 03-31-2014   #3218
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Default Re: Manziel

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The penis measuring around here is sometimes unbearable.
Now you're just being ridiculous...... My penis is much bigger than everyone here.
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Old 03-31-2014   #3219
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
The penis measuring around here is sometimes unbearable.
Yeah , this thread went from football discussion to ... I skipped 4 pages.
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Old 03-31-2014   #3220
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
Now you're just being ridiculous...... My penis is much bigger than everyone here.
Pics or it didn't happen.
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