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Old 03-30-2014   #3121
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I don't want any of the QB's at 1-1.

With that said taking Manziel would be taking a huge chance, something the Texans org is not known for.
Ed Reed wasn't a gamble? Ahman Green wasn't a gamble? Jacoby Jones wasn't a risk?

They take risks. They just take the wrong ones.
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Old 03-30-2014   #3122
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by markn View Post
Yep, haven't seen a prospect with as much "it" value since Tim teebow
That really isn't a fair comparison because it was pretty much a consensus across the board that Tebow was not going to be able to make it in the nfl as a qb. There was just way too much to change about his "mechanics". Manziels questions are only because of his size and his off the field antics. He has the tools to play qb in the nfl.
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Old 03-30-2014   #3123
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by bckey View Post
That really isn't a fair comparison because it was pretty much a consensus across the board that Tebow was not going to be able to make it in the nfl as a qb. There was just way too much to change about his "mechanics". Manziels questions are only because of his size and his off the field antics. He has the tools to play qb in the nfl.
My questions are about his football IQ, ability to make reads and adjustments at the line of scrimage.

The buzz is all about his instincts and his improv, what matters in the NFL is the ability to beat your opponent at chess at the LOS and in that 2 seconds after the snap.
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Old 03-30-2014   #3124
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by bckey View Post
That really isn't a fair comparison because it was pretty much a consensus across the board that Tebow was not going to be able to make it in the nfl as a qb. There was just way too much to change about his "mechanics". Manziels questions are only because of his size and his off the field antics. He has the tools to play qb in the nfl.
Well... no. There are more questions than just his size and his off-the-field stuff.

There are also questions about:

1) His ability to read defenses
2) His tendency to leave the framework of the offense before he needs to
3) His skittishness in the pocket and feel for the rush
4) His durability
5) Whether he'll be able to do in the pros what he did in college
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Old 03-30-2014   #3125
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Originally Posted by bckey View Post
That really isn't a fair comparison because it was pretty much a consensus across the board that Tebow was not going to be able to make it in the nfl as a qb. There was just way too much to change about his "mechanics". Manziels questions are only because of his size and his off the field antics. He has the tools to play qb in the nfl.
I wasn't comparing, I was teasing. You aggies are as sensitive as those horns are over vy!

In my honest view, the intangible strengths you cite for JM are probably all true, but they're the things that make a good pro QB great. To even be a good QB at NFL level you need a whole lot more, and no one knows if JM, TB or BB have those things (TB is closest imvho) . There's no clear can't miss qb in this draft, and all the tebow-esque willing-your-team-to-win-ingness in the world isn't going to close the gap if you don't have the basic pro-athletic ability.
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Old 03-30-2014   #3126
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
My questions are about his football IQ, ability to make reads and adjustments at the line of scrimage.

The buzz is all about his instincts and his improv, what matters in the NFL is the ability to beat your opponent at chess at the LOS and in that 2 seconds after the snap.
Bingo. This is my concern. Might've dazzled in college, but his hightlight reels make me nervous. Too many times throwing across his body and into traffic to get bailed out by a WR like Evans.

He's at his best improvising and scrambling for yardage. Questions are: when teams like LSU took away running lanes can he operate in the pocket effectively? When he does scramble can he hold up physically to hits? Can he operate under center?
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Old 03-30-2014   #3127
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Well... no. There are more questions than just his size and his off-the-field stuff.

There are also questions about:

1) His ability to read defenses
2) His tendency to leave the framework of the offense before he needs to
3) His skittishness in the pocket and feel for the rush
4) His durability
5) Whether he'll be able to do in the pros what he did in college
Pretty accurate summary.

His foot work may have improved last year, but he still had significant mechanical foot work problems last year. He continued to show many throws off of his back foot. He routinely swung his back leg up and around like a baseball pitcher in order to put more force into throws (something that negatively affects accuracy)......keeping his body wide open......a perfect setup to get killed the D in the NFL. With a significant rush (or perceived rush, he tended to fall to his side as he released the ball......which means he had his weight on his back foot and didn't re-set his feet before making the throw......a perfect setup to get killed by the D in the NFL.

Being projected "NFL-ready" going from college to the NFL is far different from being "NFL-ready" when you finally play in the NFL. Even being "NFL-ready" coming out of college is not a label that can be attached with any confidence at this point to Manziel.
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Old 03-30-2014   #3128
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Default Re: Manziel

Scout: Mike Evans made Johnny Manziel, not other way around
From NFL.com
By Dan Parr
Published: March 30, 2014 at 12:48 p.m.
Updated: March 30, 2014 at 01:28 p.m

Last edited by CloakNNNdagger; 03-30-2014 at 08:05 PM. Reason: Fixed LINK!
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Old 03-30-2014   #3129
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Ed Reed wasn't a gamble? Ahman Green wasn't a gamble? Jacoby Jones wasn't a risk?

They take risks. They just take the wrong ones.

The entire franchise STARTED with taking a risk----Tony Boselli. That guy doesn't know what the **** he's talking about.
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Old 03-30-2014   #3130
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Default Re: Manziel

I don't understand the whole high risk/high reward statement about Manziel. If all the QBs reach their potential, what is it about Manziel that would be more rewarding? Is it his elusiveness that sets him apart with a higher reward than a Bridgewater or a Bortles? I ask honestly because this keeps coming up and it's confusing me.
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Old 03-30-2014   #3131
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Scout: Mike Evans made Johnny Manziel, not other way around
From NFL.com
By Dan Parr
Published: March 30, 2014 at 12:48 p.m.
Updated: March 30, 2014 at 01:28 p.m
Link doesn't work but saying either one of them "made" another is wrong. They made each other better, plain and simple...thats how it works in football. With two great players like Johnny and Evans, neither one of them would have been as great without the other, but neither one would have failed either.

For anyone that actually watched Texas A&M play, you know that Evans was not constantly bailing Manziel out like most of his detractors try and suggest. In fact in the second half of last year, Evans was often nowhere to be found and really struggled when DBs played physical with him. He was often getting very upset and complaining when he didn't get PI calls his way.

Manziel's two best games passing last year (statistically) were games where Evans was held under 100 yards.

So this theory is complete and utter bull**** and very weak journalism.
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Old 03-30-2014   #3132
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by TheMatrix31 View Post
The entire franchise STARTED with taking a risk----Tony Boselli. That guy doesn't know what the **** he's talking about.
I thought about Boselli as soon as I hit Submit.
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Old 03-30-2014   #3133
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMatrix31 View Post
The entire franchise STARTED with taking a risk----Tony Boselli. That guy doesn't know what the **** he's talking about.
You have to understand that taking Boselli was a package deal for the Jaq's to leave other players exposed , specifically Gary Walker and Seth Payne.

The two teams had an agreement in place that the Texans absorbed Boselli's $6.8m in salary and the Jaq's left those other players available.
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Old 03-30-2014   #3134
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
You have to understand that taking Boselli was a package deal for the Jaq's to leave other players exposed , specifically Gary Walker and Seth Payne.

The two teams had an agreement in place that the Texans absorbed Boselli's $6.8m in salary and the Jaq's left those other players available.
LINK?

If true that is fascinating.

I'd never heard that before.
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Old 03-30-2014   #3135
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
LINK?

If true that is fascinating.

I'd never heard that before.
I don't have a link to it , but its pretty much common knowledge.
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Old 03-30-2014   #3136
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
I don't have a link to it , but its pretty much common knowledge.
Weird, never heard that angle before.

Why is their any Boselli Bitterness if he was the tax to pay for getting Walker and Payne?
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Old 03-30-2014   #3137
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
Weird, never heard that angle before.

Why is their any Boselli Bitterness if he was the tax to pay for getting Walker and Payne?
not everyone knows it was a package deal. Jag and Texans both knew he may never play a down because of his shoulder, Texans wanted Payne and Walker for Caper's defense.

If Boselli played, great but if not, they at least got 2 good defensive players.
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Old 03-30-2014   #3138
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by matts290 View Post
Link doesn't work but saying either one of them "made" another is wrong. They made each other better, plain and simple...thats how it works in football. With two great players like Johnny and Evans, neither one of them would have been as great without the other, but neither one would have failed either.

So this theory is complete and utter bull**** and very weak journalism.
I agree. That statement could be argued through out the history of football...


rice made Montana great...
Rice made Young great...
Irvin made Aikman great...
etc made etc great...

great players make each other great...
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Old 03-30-2014   #3139
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
Weird, never heard that angle before.

Why is their any Boselli Bitterness if he was the tax to pay for getting Walker and Payne?
Quote:
The Jaguars and expansion Houston Texans have more important matters to deal with today than their twice-annual matchups in the NFL's new AFC South Division.

Simply put: The Jaguars have a $27.7 million salary-cap problem, while the Texans are in need of quality players.

On tap

What: NFL expansion draft.

TV: 3 p.m., ESPN.

The plan: Houston is expected to select between 12 and 18 of the 155 available players in the draft. They'll use 38 percent of the $71.7 million salary cap and spend the rest on the college draft in April and free agency.

What's unusual about this scenario is that both soon-to-be division counterparts are ready and willing to help out the other in this afternoon's expansion draft at the George R. Brown Convention Center.

Rivalry? What rivalry?

"Our focus right now is more on trying to acquire good football players than worrying about how it's going to impact our opponents," said Texans coach Dom Capers, a former Jaguars defensive coordinator.

Fortunately for the Jaguars' cap situation, three of those roughly 12-18 players the Texans select today will likely be from Jacksonville. Jaguars offensive tackle Tony Boselli and defensive tackles Gary Walker and Seth Payne were flown to Houston yesterday to appear at the draft, all with the assurance they will be chosen by the Texans.
Link

The Jags could have pulled back Walker or Payne after the Boselli pick was made. The rumored deal, and how it worked out, is they did not but they would have pulled either DT if the other was selected before Boselli.

All of that is not to say the Texans did not expect Boselli to play. They did. But it made the risk more acceptable.

As to why the resentment - the whole thing was a parade of crap. Boselli didn't work out. The Carr turned out to be a Travant. The NFL didn't allow the Texans to have an alternative plan of Willie Roaf due to health risks and he went on to 5 straight pro bowls without missing a game iirc.
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Old 03-30-2014   #3140
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
LINK?

If true that is fascinating.

I'd never heard that before.
It was something that was discussed as a possibility at the time... and has been discussed off and on since then.
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