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Old 03-27-2014   #2961
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Number19 View Post
The music is a negative, because of the audience (owners, GM's & coaches); the pads are a positive because you play in pads.
If a GM takes into consideration the type of music a prospect plays at his pro day to not take him, they need to stop being a GM...


If he can play and make the throws and reads, take him. If he can't pass on him and hope he doesn't burn you in the long run..
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Old 03-27-2014   #2962
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by TheMatrix31 View Post
So Cliffs Notes is that he looked good but the same concerns remain and we basically learned nothing?
Two things I didn't know beforehand...

-- Bill Polian said Manziel has the best arm “by a significant margin” of the three quarterbacks often mentioned as Top 5 possibilities, the others being Teddy Bridgewater of Louisville and Blake Bortles of Central Florida.

-- the circus is bigger than we knew before today.
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Old 03-27-2014   #2963
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Default Re: Manziel

It would certainly be interesting if Manziel was drafted by the Texans. It would make the team interesting for sure and I think he's the kind of guy players will rally around. This team desperately needs an infusion of excitement and Manziel would provide that. It would be nice if the Texans gambled instead of taking the conservative route. With that said, today's workout was obviously designed to make him look great, but to his credit he went out and did it.
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Old 03-27-2014   #2964
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by BullNation4Life View Post
If a GM takes into consideration the type of music a prospect plays at his pro day to not take him, they need to stop being a GM...


If he can play and make the throws and reads, take him. If he can't pass on him and hope he doesn't burn you in the long run..
Agreed. Knocking a player for listening to rap is a joke. You listen to whatever gets you in the zone whether it be rap or opera music.
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Old 03-27-2014   #2965
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Two things I didn't know beforehand...

-- Bill Polian said Manziel has the best arm “by a significant margin” of the three quarterbacks often mentioned as Top 5 possibilities, the others being Teddy Bridgewater of Louisville and Blake Bortles of Central Florida.

-- the circus is bigger than we knew before today.
That GIF on that deep ball is impressive. That throw however makes up a tiny fraction of what a QB is required to do. Money is made in the short yardage throws, which I believe stats say isn't Manziel's strength.

OB seems to be far more concerned with the top two inches not the 60 yard bomb.

Not sure OB likes it when the circus comes to town. If he does, I get the feeling he likes the guy shoveling elephant crap not the headliners.

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Originally Posted by Nawzer View Post
It would make the team interesting for sure and I think he's the kind of guy players will rally around.
I'm not sold on this.

Yes I am in the fictional Teddy camp but I am open to Manziel, just wanted to comment on these issues.
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Old 03-27-2014   #2966
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by AngryNateFTW View Post
Agreed. Knocking a player for listening to rap is a joke. You listen to whatever gets you in the zone whether it be rap or opera music.
mark Sanchez said he'd listen to Barry manilow before big games to keep him calm. To me drake is probably the worst musician but I think I'd rather have the guy that's gets hyped instead one that listens to copa cabana before game time.
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Old 03-28-2014   #2967
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Number19 View Post
The music is a negative, because of the audience (owners, GM's & coaches); the pads are a positive because you play in pads.
not so fast, the passion, entertainment, connection with teammates becomes infectious even with grumpy old men without rhythm
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Old 03-28-2014   #2968
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Default Re: Manziel

If the reports I've heard are correct, even Manziel's "people" realized they had made a mistake. They started off with the R rated version of the music and somewhere about the third or forth song, plugged in a "clean" Canadian version.

This is not about knocking someone's personal preference for music.

Some have likened this pro day to a job interview. Do you go into an interview wearing a suit or your street clothes? This music was part of the "circus" atmosphere. The emphasis should not be on the fans, the public, the media or the general audience. Coaches, GM's and owners, who are deciding whether this guy is the one to pay millions of dollars, are no nonsense people who are there for just one reason, and it's not to be entertained.

If you are a Manziel fan and would like to see him in a Texans uniform, do you think this music had a net positive, or a net negative, impression on Bob McNair, Rick Williams and Bill O'Brien?

Last edited by Number19; 03-28-2014 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 03-28-2014   #2969
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Number19 View Post
If the reports I've heard are correct, even Manziel's "people" realized they had made a mistake. They started off with the R rated version of the music and somewhere about the third or forth song, plugged in a "clean" Canadian version.

This is not about knocking someone's personal preference for music.

Some have likened this pro day to a job interview. Do you go into an interview wearing a suit or your street cloths? This music was part of the "circus" atmosphere. The emphasis should not be on the fans, the public or the general audience. Coaches, GM's and owners, who are deciding whether this guy is the one to pay millions of dollars, are no nonsense people who are there for just that one reason.
This whole thing is all about the fans , without the fans there are no billion dollar franchises , billion dollar stadiums , multi-billion dollars in revenue , no millions to pay players with.
Its all about the fans! All the time!

Quote:
If you are a Manziel fan and would like to see him in a Texans uniform, do think this music had a net positive, or a net negative, impression on Bob McNair, Rick Williams and Bill O'Brien?

They aren't picking him to be a DJ , they are picking him to sling footballs around the stadium. I cant stand rap but I don't care what the hell he played. Hell , he may not have picked it ?!

Complaining about the choice of music is absolutely comical , nitpicking.

They let rapists , murderers & wife beaters play in this league .... if they have star talent , and people want to knock a guy for some music ?!

Some like the guy , others don't. He's damn near as polarizing as .... Obama.
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Old 03-28-2014   #2970
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Number19 View Post
If you are a Manziel fan and would like to see him in a Texans uniform, do you think this music had a net positive, or a net negative, impression on Bob McNair, Rick Williams and Bill O'Brien?
I think it's net positive.

I didn't expect to see Johnny on the turntables, so I'm not going to knock him for whatever version they put on.

I also didn't expect to see the production A&M planned for this. I'd be curious to know if these people were getting paid for running sound & all the other things that went into the production of the event, or if they did it because they love Johnny. If it's the latter... can't really get a better endorsement than that.
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Old 03-28-2014   #2971
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by TheMatrix31 View Post
So Cliffs Notes is that he looked good but the same concerns remain and we basically learned nothing?
Actual Cliff Notes..

- Those who liked him before the Pro Day, LOVE HIM.
- Those who were on the fence about him before the Pro Day, like him.
- Those who didn't like him before the Pro Day are throwing out more reasons/excuses to why he can't make it in the NFL.
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Old 03-28-2014   #2972
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by AngryNateFTW View Post
Actual Cliff Notes..

- Those who liked him before the Pro Day, LOVE HIM.
- Those who were on the fence about him before the Pro Day, like him.
- Those who didn't like him before the Pro Day are throwing out more reasons/excuses to why he can't make it in the NFL.
Spot on.
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Old 03-28-2014   #2973
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by TheMatrix31 View Post
So Cliffs Notes is that he looked good but the same concerns remain and we basically learned nothing?
To be honest , I think we learned quite a bit.


You consider the gimmicky offense he ran at A&M and the ability he showed today with his footwork from under center. (He already had the best footwork of the group)

With the improvement of the above , in such a short amount of time , he's showed that he's very coachable and dedicated to his craft. He showed he's capable of doing things that he wasn't asked to do @ A&M.

He has a better arm than either Bortles or Bridgewater , he makes plays that they just cant ... add all of that together , I think he separated himself from the others significantly.
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Old 03-28-2014   #2974
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryNateFTW View Post
Actual Cliff Notes..

- Those who liked him before the Pro Day, LOVE HIM.
- Those who were on the fence about him before the Pro Day, like him.
- Those who didn't like him before the Pro Day are throwing out more reasons/excuses to why he can't make it in the NFL.
I think some people have been overly critical of him before the proday - and I believe there are several questions about him that a pro day can`t answer.

The first is injuries. His style of play tends to get you injured, as you could see with RG3. NFL guys are bigger and faster, he will get some big hits and he doesn`t have the body to absorb too many of them.

The second is his patience in going through reads. In college he often improvised when his first option wasn`t open. In the NFL it is great if you have the ability to improvise, but you only should do it, when you need to. And again, this could lead to some big hits.

The third is the question of how he can do the "normal" things in games, so the 5-15 yards passes. He tends to go for the big play too often - and those risks can backfire. In the NFL, take what the defense gives you, and those are usually those underneath throws.

That being said I would be thrilled if we take him. He would add some major excitement to our team and he definetly has the IT-factor. He plays his best when the brightest lights are on, he can do that nobody else does and he has the arm to do all the plays. But I would also be scared as hell because of the questions I just wrote. Biggest boom or bust pick - but I like going for the boom.
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Old 03-28-2014   #2975
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by LikeMike View Post
I think some people have been overly critical of him before the proday - and I believe there are several questions about him that a pro day can`t answer.

The first is injuries. His style of play tends to get you injured, as you could see with RG3. NFL guys are bigger and faster, he will get some big hits and he doesn`t have the body to absorb too many of them.

The second is his patience in going through reads. In college he often improvised when his first option wasn`t open. In the NFL it is great if you have the ability to improvise, but you only should do it, when you need to. And again, this could lead to some big hits.

The third is the question of how he can do the "normal" things in games, so the 5-15 yards passes. He tends to go for the big play too often - and those risks can backfire. In the NFL, take what the defense gives you, and those are usually those underneath throws.

That being said I would be thrilled if we take him. He would add some major excitement to our team and he definetly has the IT-factor. He plays his best when the brightest lights are on, he can do that nobody else does and he has the arm to do all the plays. But I would also be scared as hell because of the questions I just wrote. Biggest boom or bust pick - but I like going for the boom.
All legitimate concerns, indeed.
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Old 03-28-2014   #2976
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by LikeMike View Post
I think some people have been overly critical of him before the proday - and I believe there are several questions about him that a pro day can`t answer.

The first is injuries. His style of play tends to get you injured, as you could see with RG3. NFL guys are bigger and faster, he will get some big hits and he doesn`t have the body to absorb too many of them.
He spoke about this at the espn or was it NFL network interview at the conclusion of the pro day , saying he has to avoid hits , don't be so prideful , take what you can get and get down.


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The second is his patience in going through reads. In college he often improvised when his first option wasn`t open. In the NFL it is great if you have the ability to improvise, but you only should do it, when you need to. And again, this could lead to some big hits.
You have to wonder what he was asked to do as far as reads are concerned. We really don't know and likely have no way of finding out what's fact or fiction. That will come out in the interview process , teams will grill him on reads , progressions , protections & all the other little details. I's love to be a fly on the wall in those interviews.
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Old 03-28-2014   #2977
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by LikeMike View Post

The second is his patience in going through reads. In college he often improvised when his first option wasn`t open. In the NFL it is great if you have the ability to improvise, but you only should do it, when you need to. And again, this could lead to some big hits.
The absolute other end of that spectrum is a guy like Aaron Brooks. He had the athleticism to give him options & work outside the pocket. He had a prett good head, and was fairly accurate outside the pocket, on the move. He had play-makers at WR (Mighty Joe Horn), TE (Billy Miller), & RB (Ricky Williams) but he was dead set on being "known" as a pocket passer.

Other guys, like McNabb & Roethlisberger put winning before "what kind of quarterback will I be" & won enough games that they could develop into that deadly from the pocket QB.

Whether it's Bortles, Bridgewater, or Manziel, they're all going to have to learn when to stick it out & when to make something happen. Some guys do it too much, some guys not enough... The Great ones find the right balance.

At worst, I think Manziel's floor is Tony Romo... ish.
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Old 03-28-2014   #2978
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Default Re: Manziel

I really don't have a horse in the QB race (want Clowney), but his height plus what looks to be a 3/4 throwing motion would concern the heck out of me. I re-watched the PD last night and whenever the camera behind him was on it seemed like his throwing motion rarely got to the height of the top of his helmet. Especially on the shorter routes. The blocking dummies came close to blocking a couple and they don't compare to the Watt's of the NFL.

I think any team that drafts him will need to create more passing lanes than for a normal QB.

All that said, I think he has a spunky type confidence and I can dig that. I never knee-jerk with draft picks, so I wouldn't be upset at picking Johnny or Bortles. But to me, anyone who relies on having a throwing glove raises a huge flag for me,
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Old 03-28-2014   #2979
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
This whole thing is all about the fans ...Its all about the fans! All the time!
This past week Bill O'Brien said something to the effect of: If I listen to the fans, I'll be out of a job.

Quote:
...Complaining about the choice of music is absolutely comical , nitpicking...
Questioning the Manziel Circus is not "nitpicking" and the music was part of the circus. Is this something O'Brien is willing to go along with? The sit-down personal interviews will be/are very relevant to the Texans decision making.

I'm neither a Manziel supporter, or a "hater". Since early on I've advocated for a defensive draft. But with each step of the evaluation process, I've moved more into Manziel's corner. If the Texans were to take a QB with 1-1, I would want it to be this kid.
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Old 03-28-2014   #2980
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
At worst, I think Manziel's floor is Tony Romo... ish.
That's a pretty big statement. Romo is a top 10 QB in the league.

IMO, Manziel's ceiling is top 5 QB. But his floor is out of the league in 4 years.
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