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Old 02-23-2014   #2441
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
it has. dallas has a great fanbase. a great stadium. a great franchise. they have superbowls. who was the owner when they won the superbowls?
A - Dallas won SBs and was a dominate team for decades before Jerry Jones. Remember the whole America's team thing?

B - The SBs won while he was owner were before he started meddling.
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Old 02-23-2014   #2442
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Default Re: Manziel

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B - The SBs won while he was owner were before he started meddling.
This. He started meddling because he wasn't getting credit for the titles. Jimmy Johnson was. So he fired Jimmy Johnson.
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Old 02-23-2014   #2443
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Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
I hope bob mcnair pulls rank on obrien and personally orders the selection of manziel. This franchise needs to be saved from cocky know it all GMs and head coaches.
Whatever they do, I guarantee none of us will see it coming.

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Old 02-23-2014   #2444
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
I hope bob mcnair pulls rank on obrien and personally orders the selection of manziel. This franchise needs to be saved from cocky know it all GMs and head coaches.
Yeah, because you never want the guys you hire to make football decisions actually make football decisions.
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Old 02-23-2014   #2445
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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Guys like Al Davis and Jerry Jones were great for their respective franchises at the beginning. But then the game moved passed them and they had too much ego to bring in people smarter than they were to come in and make decisions.
It's funny how we think we know better than Jerry, or Al. But we've never been able to accomplish anything comparable on any scale.

In other words... there are owners out there that we don't think about as often as Jj or Davis... they've done what we think Jj & Al should have done. .. & don't have sht to show for it.


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Old 02-23-2014   #2446
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Default Re: Manziel

When people that aren't following a team but knows more about the owner than the team itself....something is wrong with that franchise. The are getting publicity for not the right reasons.
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Old 02-23-2014   #2447
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
again, im not asking mcnair to become as involved as jerry. i want him to be like les alexander and bob kraft. i certainly dont want him to be totally detached from football decisions as he was when kubiak was around here.
You want McNair to make the decision you would make. If the GM and coach wanted Manziel, but the owner wanted Bridgewater or Bortles, you would scream that the owner should stop sticking his nose in football decisions.
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Old 02-23-2014   #2448
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Default Re: Manziel

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i certainly dont want him to be totally detached from football decisions as he was when kubiak was around here.
How do you know that's the case?
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Old 02-23-2014   #2449
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
from what ive heard on radio, tv, from what ive read from the internet, and from what ive seen.

Kubiak never fired anybody despite his personnel stinking it up. He pushed around rick smith and drafted who he wanted to drafted. He hired who he wanted to hire despite the fact that they were unqualified for the position just look at the frank bush and his linebacker buddy dennison hiring.

Kubiak had complete authority since he was such a nice guy and part of the good old boy network.

I thought this was common knowledge.
The thing about the Houston FO is that it's been a black box. They've been very good about not letting anyone know what's going on behind closed doors. So everyone has just been speculating on what happens or what happened. That's what you've been reading and that's what you've been hearing: speculation.

When it comes to drafting, we know that coaches have had a lot of input but that it's at least collaborative during the actual selection process and that Smith was in charge of coordinating trades. All of the other stuff is speculation: Brown was Gibbs' pick, Watt was Wade's pick, blah blah blah.

McNair has said repeatedly, even before Kubiak arrived, that he doesn't want to fire people during the season except in extreme circumstances. So Kubiak not firing Richard Smith or Frank Bush during the season isn't necessarily a sign that he was in complete control of everything ESPECIALLY since he probably would have fired Richard Smith and put Frank Bush in there earlier if Kubiak had his druthers. Instead, they just shifted some of Smith's responsibilities to Frank Bush and then fired Smith in the offseason.

But. We know that McNair is in the room when the personnel decisions are made. We know he's there at the Draft. If he was totally detached, he wouldn't be there at all. Now. Should he have input on which players are going to be taken? No, not really. That should be up to the GM and the coaching staff.
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Old 02-23-2014   #2450
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Should he have input on which players are going to be taken? No, not really. That should be up to the GM and the coaching staff.
Not the players that are taken, but I think he does have veto power on whom not to take. But, that would be on character issues, non-football related. And I think Smith (and now O'Brien) have a good grasp on what McNair wants in that regard.
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Old 02-23-2014   #2451
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Old 02-23-2014   #2452
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Default Re: Manziel

I just watched Manziel's 40 and it surprised me how tiny he looks. I don't know if he can handle the grind of an NFL season year in and year out. I'm not pro or anti-Manziel (I frankly don't watch enough college football) but his size and more importantly his build is a concern.
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Old 02-23-2014   #2453
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
from what ive heard on radio, tv, from what ive read from the internet, and from what ive seen.

Kubiak never fired anybody despite his personnel stinking it up. He pushed around rick smith and drafted who he wanted to drafted. He hired who he wanted to hire despite the fact that they were unqualified for the position just look at the frank bush and his linebacker buddy dennison hiring.

Kubiak had complete authority since he was such a nice guy and part of the good old boy network.

I thought this was common knowledge.
I don't know about common knowledge, but I actually share fairly similar speculation.

I think McNair looks towards the Rooney's as far as a model for a consistent blueprint for running a franchise, which means keeping an even level on things. For the most part I applaud this. However, I think McNair overly trusted Kubiak and I think he let Kubiak make the lion's share of decisions on personnel.

Let me state upfront: I don't think Gary Kubiak is a bad guy or necessarily a bad coach. I think the most consistent problem under Gary was identifying and developing talent. He seemed to gravitate to players much like himself as a player, not the most physically gifted but tried to make up for it in their approach to the game. He also liked to try to take long shot on some guys in fairly high spots; Molden as well as Okoye.

My other problem is that Gary did not seem to want people around he did not feel comfortable with or went out of his circle of what he knew. This lead to some really poor decisions on the staff in general. I think you can get away with this when you have a stronger GM who calls the shots in personnel and says: "I know what you're looking for in players, while I am not going to make the calls exclusively, at the end of the day this is what you've got to work with."

I am still not 100% sure that Rick Smith was allowed the ability to work anywhere near independent of Gary's decisions except maybe the last two years when it seemed the draft process (at least in my view) steered away from Gary making the calls. I am guessing this is why he likely still has a job.

I am relieved if nothing else some of the most questionable parts of the personnel side have been replaced, I still think there could be a few more specially if Rick Smith is shown the door next year if this team doesn't perform well.
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Old 02-23-2014   #2454
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
Manziel with an official 4.68, 4th best at QB this year.

Not bad for a QB, but still kinda funny considering how many people thought he was blazing a sub-4.5
As I predicted yesterday........huge feet on a smaller frame equals better traction (elusiveness) but slower straight away speed. Manziel in the NFL is unlikely to have the time to be very elusive.
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Old 02-23-2014   #2455
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Regarding LB:

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Old 02-23-2014   #2456
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
As I predicted yesterday........huge feet on a smaller frame equals better traction (elusiveness) but slower straight away speed. Manziel in the NFL is unlikely to have the time to be very elusive.
The LSU games and defense tend to agree with you.
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Old 02-23-2014   #2457
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Default Re: Manziel

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The LSU games and defense tend to agree with you.
Injured thumb and shoulder. Same thing with Mizzou the next week. There were a lot of things wrong with those games and shoddy playcalling, Johnny's injuries, and a few other factors resulted in his shoddy play.
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Old 02-23-2014   #2458
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Default Re: Manziel

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Injured thumb and shoulder. Same thing with Mizzou the next week. There were a lot of things wrong with those games and shoddy playcalling, Johnny's injuries, and a few other factors resulted in his shoddy play.
Alabama may have the best defense in college football, and Manziel did scorch them, but Florida and LSU are the closest thing to what Manziel will see in the NFL. Four athletic linemen who get pressure and four DBs who can all stick in man coverage. Against those teams Manziel did this:

2012 Florida: 23/30 173 yards
2012 LSU: 29/56 276 yards 3 INTs
2013 LSU: 16/41 224 yards 1 TD 2 INTs

He has issues with teams that can get pressure from the interior without abandoning their lanes. He can't read the defense well enough to get the ball out that fast and he ends up forcing things. And while he has a high accuracy percentage, it's because he is usually throwing to open guys. If you contain him in the pocket and play decent man coverage he can't throw his guys open consistently.

Alabama does not have athletic DL. Those guys ties up blocks for the LBs. Teams with athletic DL (Florida, LSU, Missouri) gave Manziel fits because he couldn't improvise and run around all day waiting for someone to get wide open like he did with everyone else.

In the NFL all the DL are athletic. All you have to do is get pressure with four and keep him from breaking the pocket, spy with one, and drop six into coverage and he can't beat you consistently.
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Old 02-23-2014   #2459
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by htownfan32 View Post
Injured thumb and shoulder. Same thing with Mizzou the next week. There were a lot of things wrong with those games and shoddy playcalling, Johnny's injuries, and a few other factors resulted in his shoddy play.
ehh...im not buying it. He hurt himself early in the ole miss game. But b/c they won people said it was gutsy...and he's a gamer....and this and that all of which were positives in JFF's favor. You cant now go back and blame injuries for poor performances against the 2-3 teams he lost to....Besides, this is the 2nd straight year LSU locked him up....amd those games are closer to what its gonna be like on the next level for him...moreso than any other games that he played.

If he is to be successful on the next level, he'll have to learn how to better deal with what LSU and Mizzou did to him.
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Old 02-23-2014   #2460
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Default Re: Manziel

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Injured thumb and shoulder. Same thing with Mizzou the next week. There were a lot of things wrong with those games and shoddy playcalling, Johnny's injuries, and a few other factors resulted in his shoddy play.
I love Johnny as much as anyone and one of the best college players I have ever seen but the reality is Johnny couldn't get to the outside vs LSU and his thumb and shoulder had little to do with that. I wanted him to succeed against LSU and MIZZOU but the they were very effective in taking away his feet and legs.
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