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Old 02-20-2014   #2381
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
For whatever reason people want to believe I've got an ulterior motive. But I say what I mean. I'm not going to take "the best QB" at 1 overall if he's not 6'3" minimum. I've been pretty clear on this.

& as long as I believe 4 or more of the QBs I want will be on the board at 2.1, I'm not going to take a QB at all in the first. Chances are there are better options.

At least three prototypical LTs, two prototypical #1 WRs, a freak of a DE, two bonafide All-Pro ILBs.... but I'm going to take a 5'10" QB who's game won't translate to the NFL? or a guy with the leadership wherewithal of Matt Schaub?

I don't think so.

Just because Russell Wilson had a 70% chance of being successful in the NFL & made good of it, doesn't mean we should take a 70% propect over a 90% prospect.
You say you won't take a QB #1 who is not at least 6'3", then go on to say you won't take a short QB who's game won't translate to the NFL.

Why would ANYONE take a QB of ANY SIZE whos game won't translate to the NFL?
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Old 02-20-2014   #2382
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Blake View Post
You say you won't take a QB #1 who is not at least 6'3", then go on to say you won't take a short QB who's game won't translate to the NFL.

Why would ANYONE take a QB of ANY SIZE whos game won't translate to the NFL?
It's a gamble, no matter who we pick or don't pick. There are thousands of factors that will come into the equation after the draft & it's just too hard to predict (Tom Brady, Tony Romo, Kurt Warner, Ryan Leaf, David Carr, Akili Smith).

All we can do is stack the deck in our favor as much as we can with what we know before the draft. Height, weight, arm strength, level of competition, all of it.

I will draft a Logan Thomas, even though his game may not translate to the NFL, because he's got all the tools. Maybe I can teach him to perform at a high level. Of course, I'd have to get him at what I believe to be good value, compared to the other talent available. I'd draft Manziel under the right circumstances. But #1 overall is not the right circumstance. I like him at 15~16, If we trade down to the 10th or 11th pick (along with the appropriate compensation) I'd take him there. That's not to say I think he's a 10th round selection so I might as well take him with the #1 overall..... no.

He's a reach I'm willing to take at 10~11 if I didn't feel as good about the other 4 or 5 QBs I like which are likely to still be on the board.
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Old 02-20-2014   #2383
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Default Re: Manziel

Big difference between May not translate and won't translate. Why do you keep adjusting your stance?
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Old 02-20-2014   #2384
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Default Re: Manziel

I am starting to think Manziel is the ultimate boom or bust, most teams wont touch him that high, but it only takes one.
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Old 02-20-2014   #2385
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake View Post
Big difference between May not translate and won't translate. Why do you keep adjusting your stance?
It was hyperbole... used for that particular argument. Not my stance.
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Old 02-20-2014   #2386
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
All we can do is stack the deck in our favor as much as we can with what we know before the draft. Height, weight, arm strength, level of competition, all of it.
And herein lies your fatal flaw, you constantly spew out these 3 or 4 "qualifications" as to what you think makes a college QB a good prospect, but where you fail is actually analyzing their specific skill set and concluding just how good of a player they are.

You see Bridgewater as shorter than McCarron and think thats a win for McCarron.

You see Manziel as playing on a talented team but not winning 2 national championships like McCarron and think thats a win for AJ.

You see Bortles and the weak conference he played in and think that is a win for McCarron because he played stiffer competition.

What you don't see (and by your own admission you don't watch CFB) is how talented and skilled these guys are as quarterbacks. If you did see this, you would conclude the same things that 100s of professional scouts have...and that is that McCarron is a inferior player to Bortles, Manziel, and Bridgwater.
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Old 02-20-2014   #2387
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Default Re: Manziel

Johnny Manziel getting some tutoring from Kevin O'Donnell an Ex-Bill O'Brien QB.

Does this mean anything?
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Old 02-20-2014   #2388
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryNateFTW View Post
Johnny Manziel getting some tutoring from Kevin O'Donnell an Ex-Bill O'Brien QB.

Does this mean anything?
It means that he is preparing to try and impress O'Brien by working with someone who knows him well. Don't think it means anything more than that... like somehow O'Donnell will influence O'Brien to take Manziel because they have past ties (and Irish names) IE the same theory with Bortles and O'Leary
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Old 02-20-2014   #2389
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by matts290 View Post

What you don't see (and by your own admission you don't watch CFB) is how talented and skilled these guys are as quarterbacks. If you did see this, you would conclude the same things that 100s of professional scouts have...and that is that McCarron is a inferior player to Bortles, Manziel, and Bridgwater.
I do not think McCarron is superior to anyone in this draft. At the same time, I don't think Bortles is superior to anyone in this draft. I don't argue that Bridgewater & Manziel are the two best QBs in this draft.

The only thing I argue is the separation between them.

Say, how did those 100s of professionals rate Wilson, Foles, & Cousins compared to Weeden & Osweiler?
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Old 02-20-2014   #2390
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryNateFTW View Post
Johnny Manziel getting some tutoring from Kevin O'Donnell an Ex-Bill O'Brien QB.

Does this mean anything?
It means Johnny is a very smart guy.
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Old 02-20-2014   #2391
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryNateFTW View Post
Johnny Manziel getting some tutoring from Kevin O'Donnell an Ex-Bill O'Brien QB.

Does this mean anything?
It means he is making smart decisions or getting smart advising in his preparation for the draft.
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Old 02-20-2014   #2392
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
It means he is making smart decisions or getting smart advising in his preparation for the draft.
Ding ding ding!!!
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Old 02-21-2014   #2393
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Default Re: Manziel

Johnny Manziel 5'11 3/4, 207 lbs, 9 7/8" hand
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Old 02-21-2014   #2394
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Default Re: Manziel

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Johnny Manziel 5'11 3/4 207
Should have spent one more night on the rack.
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Old 02-21-2014   #2395
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Johnny Manziel 5'11 3/4 207
In before the hate wave. Get ready for page after page of he's to small. I told ya so. Having said that, The measurements have to put Bridgewater in the lead.
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Old 02-21-2014   #2396
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Default Re: Manziel

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Johnny Manziel 5'11 3/4, 207 lbs, 9 7/8" hand
Haha, oh my...

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Old 02-21-2014   #2397
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Default Re: Manziel

So basically. He's 6 feet tall
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Old 02-21-2014   #2398
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So basically. He's 6 feet tall
Almost.

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Old 02-21-2014   #2399
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
So basically. He's 6 feet tall
Now we get 30 pages of discussion on why 5'11 3/4" is so much worse than a TRUE 6'er.
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Old 02-21-2014   #2400
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Default Re: Manziel

Eh, no significant difference in his measureables from what he was reported to be in college.

That to me suggests his work with Whitfield has been more chalkboard than anything.

& if that's the case, it falls in line with what Cosell and a few others have said about him.
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