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Old 02-05-2014   #2001
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Default Re: Texans MUST TAKE Manziel.

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Originally Posted by BullNation4Life View Post
looks like he might be leaning towards Bortles then?

If that be the case, dangle that #1 pick in front of Cleveland, drop back a few slots and pick up some extra picks...

worst case scenario, Texans have their pick of Bortles, Bridgewater or Clowney at #4 spot...
I think Bortles and if not he can move back, take D and then get a guy like Mettenberger from LSU or the Logan Thomas kid from Va Tech. They fit his style. I guess you then start Keenum after cutting Schaub. Not sure that goes into the "win now" philosophy but it makes sense.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2002
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Default Re: Texans MUST TAKE Manziel.

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Originally Posted by sandman View Post
Johnny Freaking Football lost to every ranked SEC team he played this year. He didn't beat a single SEC team that had a winning conference record. They finished 7th in the conference. He had to do a major come-from-behind to beat Duke in a bowl game. D-U-K-E.

Who cares about stats if he can't win the games that matter?

He sure does look purdy though beating up on SHSU and UTEP...
Look at where A&M's defense ranks in the most important category. Hint: they aren't on page 1. Team Scoring Defense

You're a fool if you think "Johnny Freaking Football" was the reason they lost to every ranked SEC team. If you did more than look at the final score of the Duke game, you'd also have seen how atrocious his defense was in that game, and it took some serious leadership abilities to bring his team back.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2003
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Default Re: Texans MUST TAKE Manziel.

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Originally Posted by OzzO View Post
seconded
and it does not
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Old 02-05-2014   #2004
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Default Re: Texans MUST TAKE Manziel.

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Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
You cannot pass up on that play making potential. People underrate him because of his off field problems (fake controversy drummed up by mindless media like espn) but he is russell wilson 2.0

The white Michael Vick.

The talent is there. The production is there against elite college football competition. You cannot pass up on that kind of upside/potential.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2005
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Default Re: Texans MUST TAKE Manziel.

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Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
how you figure?

michael vick was spectacular in college making similar spectacular plays. He did the same thing in the NFL until he lost his way.

You cant be possibly saying that Manziel will run a criminal underground dog fighting operation can you?
Michael Vick is still a pretty good QB. The dog fighting thing took him out of the NFL for a while, but he's never stopped being a viable NFL QB... There were injury concerns & injury pretty much screwed him last year
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Old 02-05-2014   #2006
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Default Re: Texans MUST TAKE Manziel.

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Originally Posted by Goatcheese View Post
Players I would take before Manziel

Bridgewater
Clowney
J.Mathews
Mack
G. Robinson
Barr
Bortles
Watkins
Carr
Mosley
Dennard
Lee
Lewman

and maybe M. Evans and Kouandjio

Then, maybe if I'm feeling gutsy, I draft the local kid to sell some tickets.
I don't understand the Carr love. All he's got is size & arm. Other than that, he's a project. Doesn't make sense he's a first round prospect but guys like Murray & Boyd are 3rd rounders at best. Mettenberger's got a knee issue. If that clears up by draft time, as far as being able to play in 2014, it would make more sense to me that he'd be taken before Carr.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2007
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Default Re: Texans MUST TAKE Manziel.

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Originally Posted by BullNation4Life View Post
annnnd Texas A&M's 85th ranked defense had nooooothing to do with those loses?

You hang 40+ on a team and lose, that isn't on the QB. You give up 5 TDs in the first 5 possessions to
D-U-K-E, has nothing to do with the QB....

Can't hang the problems of a horrible A&M defense on Manziel's shoulders when Manziel has no control of that matter. That falls on Sumlin...

nice try, thanks for playing...
Throws two INT in each game against Alabama and Auburn, with QBR's below 80.0 in both games, and it's Sumlin's fault? I will give you these because the defense did give up a lot of points.

Scoring only 10 points against LSU, going 16-41 with 2 INT and a QBR below 15.0 was Sumlin's fault?

Only 1 TD throw against Mizzou with a QBR below 50.0 was Sumlin's fault?

BTW, the Aggie defense gave up two of it lowest point totals against SEC teams in these games against LSU and Mizzou when Johnny played so spectacularly.

Poor JFF. He would be the greatest ever if not for Sumlin...
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Old 02-05-2014   #2008
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Default Re: Texans MUST TAKE Manziel.

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Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
Look at where A&M's defense ranks in the most important category. Hint: they aren't on page 1. Team Scoring Defense

You're a fool if you think "Johnny Freaking Football" was the reason they lost to every ranked SEC team. If you did more than look at the final score of the Duke game, you'd also have seen how atrocious his defense was in that game, and it took some serious leadership abilities to bring his team back.
Go ahead and check his stat line and QBR in those end of season back to back losses to LSU and Mizzou and get back with me on how that was all on the defense...
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Old 02-05-2014   #2009
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Default Re: Manziel

My Bevo-dar is going off...

You're throwing out meaningless stats. Other than the LSU game Manziel performed well in all of them. Watch tape instead of just saying "well this happened or that happened." I was there for every single game Manziel played in. I'll tell you that he wasn't the reason we lost.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2010
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Default Re: Manziel

anybody catch first take this morning?

Stephen A Smith absolutely crushed bill o brien for saying he questions manziel's work ethic.

He absolutely ethered o brien's baseless accusations.

Skip said that Nick Saban said he has never in all of his years coaching football come across a competitor like Manziel.

I dont understand why we cant just judge manziel on what he does on the football field.

Sounds to me like obrien made that take without any evidence whatsoever and just wanted to pollute the air. Stephen A said it best, if you dont like johnny football as a player, just say that. Dont make baseless accusations like he doesnt believe in his work ethic just to slander the guy.

Im telling you right now, passing up on that kind of talent and potential will haunt the texans.

It will be randy moss 2.0 all over again.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2011
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
anybody catch first take this morning?

Stephen A Smith absolutely crushed bill o brien for saying he questions manziel's work ethic.

He absolutely ethered o brien's baseless accusations.

Skip said that Nick Saban said he has never in all of his years coaching football come across a competitor like Manziel.

I dont understand why we cant just judge manziel on what he does on the football field.

Sounds to me like obrien made that take without any evidence whatsoever and just wanted to pollute the air. Stephen A said it best, if you dont like johnny football as a player, just say that. Dont make baseless accusations like he doesnt believe in his work ethic just to slander the guy.

Im telling you right now, passing up on that kind of talent and potential will haunt the texans.

It will be randy moss 2.0 all over again.
Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless are complete Ass clowns and should never be used to back up your argument. ESPN's first take is literally the laughing stock of all sports talk shows.

Part of me feels as if Im speaking with Manziel's father which if I am...Im sorry sir...no disrespect. Your son is a fine athlete but you should have spanked his ass a few more times when he was younger.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2012
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by 2slik4u View Post
Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless are complete Ass clowns and should never be used to back up your argument. ESPN's first take is literally the laughing stock of all sports talk shows.

Part of me feels as if Im speaking with Manziel's father which if I am...Im sorry sir...no disrespect. Your son is a fine athlete but you should have spanked his ass a few more times when he was younger.

everybody loves to denigrate and clown on skip and stephen a yet they have the most popular sports debate show in the morning and everybody knows them. LOL at the laughing stock of all sports talk shows. Talk about overstating. Everybody always tries to trivialize that show yet they are on the biggest sports network and they have a huge fanbase.

but you say they are a laughing stock of all sports talk shows? LOL please.

Everybody watches them and so do you.

And i dont get the whole he's a bad dude, no work ethic slag on Manziel.

Did he rape anybody? Did he murder? Did he rob someone? Did he assault someone? Did he say something racial or derogatory?

What did Manizel really do to get that reputation? Or are we just exaggerating and blowing things out of proportion some harmless hard partying that Manziel did?

Check his film. Check his competition. Check what the other experts are saying. Lets see what he does in the combine and compare all of that vs the other QBs.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2013
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
It will be randy moss 2.0 all over again.
Love how you avoid the much more analogous and obvious comparison - it will be Vince Young 2.0 all over again.

But since you go with Randy Moss for some inexplicable reason, how many SB rings does Randy have?

Now how many rings for teams that passed on him (which doesn't include the Texans since they didn't exist)? - that would be 10.

So what's your point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
everybody loves to denigrate and clown on skip and stephen a yet they have the most popular sports debate show in the morning and everybody knows them.
That's because imbeciles need entertainment too.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2014
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Default Re: Manziel

I don't like Johnny Manziel as a player.

He has some fixable issues but a lot of my issues with him cannot or probably just will not be fixed.

I don't like his size. I don't think height is as important as most people do but it is still an issue. He is too reliant on his legs. He got better at this in his second year but his legs are still his primary weapon instead of his arm. He relies far too much on improvisation and doesn't stay on schedule. He won't be able to out-athlete everybody at the next level and will need to learn how to stay within the concept of the designed play instead of turning three out of every five plays into backyard football.

He throws off of his back foot far too often. He consistently makes dangerous throws into coverage or down the middle of the field because he knows his WRs are bigger and stronger than the defenders, something he may not have in the NFL.

He plays in a glorified high school offense with basically zero mental responsibility from the QB. All the calls, protections, and adjustments are called from the sideline. Nothing about his offense cleanly translates to the NFL, and nothing in his offense has prepared him for the NFL. You will be starting from scratch. I do believe that he has the mental capacity to learn a NFL system, but it is still an issue.

I think that his style of play will need to be adapted to the NFL, thus you may not be getting the same prospect he was in college. I believe his current style of play will lead to a few good/great years at best but not long term success. I'm not comfortable with spending the #1 overall pick on a guy who's style of play does not lend itself to long term success. You could alter his style of play. But I'm not comfortable spending the #1 pick on a prospect that you have to fundamentally alter.

For me, Manziel's absolute best case scenario is Jeff Garcia. With all the things standing in the way of him becoming that, I'm not comfortable taking him #1 overall.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2015
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
everybody loves to denigrate and clown on skip and stephen a yet they have the most popular sports debate show in the morning and everybody knows them. LOL at the laughing stock of all sports talk shows. Talk about overstating. Everybody always tries to trivialize that show yet they are on the biggest sports network and they have a huge fanbase.

but you say they are a laughing stock of all sports talk shows? LOL please.

Everybody watches them and so do you.

And i dont get the whole he's a bad dude, no work ethic slag on Manziel.

Did he rape anybody? Did he murder? Did he rob someone? Did he assault someone? Did he say something racial or derogatory?

What did Manizel really do to get that reputation? Or are we just exaggerating and blowing things out of proportion some harmless hard partying that Manziel did?

Check his film. Check his competition. Check what the other experts are saying. Lets see what he does in the combine and compare all of that vs the other QBs.
I'd buy they are the laughing stock of the sports world, sure. It's the worst sport show I can think of ever. Well, a tie for 1st with PTI and ATH. Haven't seen any of those show in well over a year.

If I'm trying to take a point, I'll pass on using Bayless or Smith, thank you.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2016
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Love how you avoid the much more analogous and obvious comparison - it will be Vince Young 2.0 all over again.

But since you go with Randy Moss for some inexplicable reason, how many SB rings does Randy have?

Now how many rings for teams that passed on him (which doesn't include the Texans since they didn't exist)? - that would be 10.

So what's your point?

That's because imbeciles need entertainment too.
Having superbowl rings is beside the point. The point is you dont pass up on that kind of talent because of some harmless bad publicity.

the point is Randy Moss was passed on because of his off field problems which were a lot worse than Manziel yet Moss had a great career and if you redid the draft with everything you now know, Moss would have been drafted much sooner.

Winning the superbowl is beside the point. You cant win a superbowl on your own. Too many other variables. What you take away is that Moss was a great nfl player who will be going to the hall of fame because he had a great career.

The vince young comparison i dont get. Is Manziel gonna try to commit suicide like young? Why is it that when you compare you look for the worst comparison? As if Manziel cant get the benefit of the doubt. People always hope for the worst possible scenario and use that as their ceiling instead of giving the player the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2017
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Showtime100 View Post
I'd buy they are the laughing stock of the sports world, sure. It's the worst sport show I can think of ever. Well, a tie for 1st with PTI and ATH. Haven't seen any of those show in well over a year.

If I'm trying to take a point, I'll pass on using Bayless or Smith, thank you.
are you people serious?

Around the Horn, PTI, first take are all great entertaining shows that millions of sports fans watch.

Name me a better sports alternative on television.

lol at laughing stock. These dudes get paid and are on the biggest sports network in america and they have millions of fans and viewers yet you people bash them as if there are some other sports shows on tv doing better than them.

Name me some sports show on television that are bigger and better than those shows.

lol i cant wait for your answers.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2018
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
I don't like Johnny Manziel as a player.

He has some fixable issues but a lot of my issues with him cannot or probably just will not be fixed.

I don't like his size. I don't think height is as important as most people do but it is still an issue. He is too reliant on his legs. He got better at this in his second year but his legs are still his primary weapon instead of his arm. He relies far too much on improvisation and doesn't stay on schedule. He won't be able to out-athlete everybody at the next level and will need to learn how to stay within the concept of the designed play instead of turning three out of every five plays into backyard football.

He throws off of his back foot far too often. He consistently makes dangerous throws into coverage or down the middle of the field because he knows his WRs are bigger and stronger than the defenders, something he may not have in the NFL.

He plays in a glorified high school offense with basically zero mental responsibility from the QB. All the calls, protections, and adjustments are called from the sideline. Nothing about his offense cleanly translates to the NFL, and nothing in his offense has prepared him for the NFL. You will be starting from scratch. I do believe that he has the mental capacity to learn a NFL system, but it is still an issue.

I think that his style of play will need to be adapted to the NFL, thus you may not be getting the same prospect he was in college. I believe his current style of play will lead to a few good/great years at best but not long term success. I'm not comfortable with spending the #1 overall pick on a guy who's style of play does not lend itself to long term success. You could alter his style of play. But I'm not comfortable spending the #1 pick on a prospect that you have to fundamentally alter.

For me, Manziel's absolute best case scenario is Jeff Garcia. With all the things standing in the way of him becoming that, I'm not comfortable taking him #1 overall.


He doesnt have to adapt to the nfl. The nfl is the one adapting.

His style of quarterbacking just won the superbowl.

Russell Wilson, Colin Capernick, Cam Newton, RG3, Manziel is cut from the same cloth.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2019
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by 2slik4u View Post
Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless are complete Ass clowns and should never be used to back up your argument. ESPN's first take is literally the laughing stock of all sports talk shows...
This.

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
I don't like Johnny Manziel as a player.

He has some fixable issues but a lot of my issues with him cannot or probably just will not be fixed.

I don't like his size. I don't think height is as important as most people do but it is still an issue. He is too reliant on his legs. He got better at this in his second year but his legs are still his primary weapon instead of his arm. He relies far too much on improvisation and doesn't stay on schedule. He won't be able to out-athlete everybody at the next level and will need to learn how to stay within the concept of the designed play instead of turning three out of every five plays into backyard football.

He throws off of his back foot far too often. He consistently makes dangerous throws into coverage or down the middle of the field because he knows his WRs are bigger and stronger than the defenders, something he may not have in the NFL.

He plays in a glorified high school offense with basically zero mental responsibility from the QB. All the calls, protections, and adjustments are called from the sideline. Nothing about his offense cleanly translates to the NFL, and nothing in his offense has prepared him for the NFL. You will be starting from scratch. I do believe that he has the mental capacity to learn a NFL system, but it is still an issue.

I think that his style of play will need to be adapted to the NFL, thus you may not be getting the same prospect he was in college. I believe his current style of play will lead to a few good/great years at best but not long term success. I'm not comfortable with spending the #1 overall pick on a guy who's style of play does not lend itself to long term success. You could alter his style of play. But I'm not comfortable spending the #1 pick on a prospect that you have to fundamentally alter.

For me, Manziel's absolute best case scenario is Jeff Garcia. With all the things standing in the way of him becoming that, I'm not comfortable taking him #1 overall.
And this. I'd like to know what percentage of his pass plays were executed as called? I see too much of Johnny Improvisation instead of Johnny Football Mind. And he scrambles out of the back of the pocket which is as low percentage as it gets in the NFL.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2020
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
Having superbowl rings is beside the point. The point is you dont pass up on that kind of talent because of some harmless bad publicity.

the point is Randy Moss was passed on because of his off field problems which were a lot worse than Manziel yet Moss had a great career and if you redid the draft with everything you now know, Moss would have been drafted much sooner.
Demonstrably BS since Moss went through 5 teams who wouldn't put up with his crap despite his on-field talent.

Quote:
The vince young comparison i dont get. Is Manziel gonna try to commit suicide like young? Why is it that when you compare you look for the worst comparison? As if Manziel cant get the benefit of the doubt. People always hope for the worst possible scenario and use that as their ceiling instead of giving the player the benefit of the doubt.
Well gee, I know it is subtle:

Texans 1.1
Texas QB from simple system with resume bolstered by a great deal of running.
Top DE in competition for 1.1 with great athleticism and a questionable motor.
Neither has shown any suicide predilection pre-draft

Clearly a cancer like Moss is a better comparison.
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