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Old 09-19-2012   #1
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Default Numbers indicate little difference between replacement and regular refs

Thought this was interesting. Shows how much perception plays into things. And the fact that the worst game was arguably the most watched.

Quote:
The perception seems to be flags are flying indiscriminately. And yet:

• The average number of penalties per game is down from 15.2 to 14.7.

• On player-safety calls, such as roughing the passer; unnecessary roughness, including hitting defenseless players; and, face-mask or horse-collar violations, the calls are nearly even: 75 this year, 74 last.

• Instant replay reviews are way up, an increase of 16. But the percentage of reversals is way down: 23 this year out of 62 as opposed to 21 of 46 in 2011.

• Defensive pass interference and illegal contact penalties are up, but only from 48 to 51, surprising because of the hubbub raised on the airwaves about the lack of such calls.

Offensive players believe the replacements are concentrating on pass interference penalties against them, not against defensive backs. The numbers: six such calls this season to nine through two weeks last year.

...

Average time of game is about six minutes longer in 2012 than in 2011, and with only one overtime game in the opening two weeks -- same as last year -- extra periods can't be blamed. More likely, the time it takes to properly administrate penalties throughout the game is the cause.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/84...ular-refs-same

I think the most interesting thing is that only 20% of replays have been overturned. Which tells me they are getting it right a lot more than the regular refs did...
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Old 09-19-2012   #2
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Default Re: Numbers indicate little difference between replacement and regular refs

The big difference to me has been with administering the game. They're often not sure what the correct procedural call is, misplace the ball often, enforce the wrong yardage on penalties, and generally take forever to make a decision. That's my beef with it. The biggest blown call, I guess, has been the phantom OPA call on Jacoby Jones that cost the Ravens the game last week, but those happen with the regulars as well. The replacements show a lack of confidence in their decisions, and that makes emotionally charged coaches and players respect them less.
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Old 09-19-2012   #3
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Default Re: Numbers indicate little difference between replacement and regular refs

I haven't thought they have been doing a bad job at all other than being slow. The regulars are losing their leverage week by week.
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Old 09-19-2012   #4
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Default Re: Numbers indicate little difference between replacement and regular refs

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Originally Posted by paycheck71 View Post
The big difference to me has been with administering the game. They're often not sure what the correct procedural call is, misplace the ball often, enforce the wrong yardage on penalties, and generally take forever to make a decision. That's my beef with it. The biggest blown call, I guess, has been the phantom OPA call on Jacoby Jones that cost the Ravens the game last week, but those happen with the regulars as well. The replacements show a lack of confidence in their decisions, and that makes emotionally charged coaches and players respect them less.
Yeah, they talk about this a little in the article. You're right on the money with this:

Quote:
Game control and simple professionalism by the officials have become key issues this week after complaints from a number of players.

Average time of game is about six minutes longer in 2012 than in 2011, and with only one overtime game in the opening two weeks -- same as last year -- extra periods can't be blamed. More likely, the time it takes to properly administrate penalties throughout the game is the cause.

The league has a supervisor in the press box and an alternate official on the sideline to help in that area. But it's been a struggle.
All of that comes with time though. If they get the administration and control aspects down, the regular refs will be left with no leverage at all. Every single week the replacements become more and more accustomed to the job
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Old 09-19-2012   #5
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Default Re: Numbers indicate little difference between replacement and regular refs

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Originally Posted by paycheck71 View Post
The big difference to me has been with administering the game. They're often not sure what the correct procedural call is, misplace the ball often, enforce the wrong yardage on penalties, and generally take forever to make a decision. That's my beef with it. The biggest blown call, I guess, has been the phantom OPA call on Jacoby Jones that cost the Ravens the game last week, but those happen with the regulars as well. The replacements show a lack of confidence in their decisions, and that makes emotionally charged coaches and players respect them less.

The more time they get on the field the more the game management issues fade and the closer they actually come to performing like the regulars.

As to player and coach respect, the nfl should warn the teams/coaches and then tell the refs to start popping them with penalties and the problem will solve itself
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Old 09-20-2012   #6
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Default Re: Numbers indicate little difference between replacement and regular refs

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Originally Posted by 2012Champs View Post
The more time they get on the field the more the game management issues fade and the closer they actually come to performing like the regulars.

As to player and coach respect, the nfl should warn the teams/coaches and then tell the refs to start popping them with penalties and the problem will solve itself
Yep. I said the same thing in a different thread. Had I been officiating the Denver game this past Monday, John Fox would have been watching the game from the locker room. The player and coaches are clearly taking advantage of the situation.

The confidence and game control thing falls back on the NFL. They should have been training those guys up back during the summer.
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Old 09-20-2012   #7
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Default Re: Numbers indicate little difference between replacement and regular refs

The thing I disliked about the regular refs is you could see a flag a mile away, almost before the foul you could feel coming...lol. Doesn't happen (yet) with the newbies.

Also I see no favorites being played, too bad for the NFL darlings *cough* manning *cough*
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Old 09-20-2012   #8
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Default Re: Numbers indicate little difference between replacement and regular refs

I havent had a problem with penalty calls. Both the regulars and replacements miss or make terrible calls. The problem has been the pacing of the game, ball spotting and misinterpertation of the rules. I forget the exact stats but games are running longer than the average under the regulars. This is due to the ref conferences.
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Old 09-20-2012   #9
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Default Re: Numbers indicate little difference between replacement and regular refs

I think my issues aren't in 'volume' of flags...its the late flags when the home team's fans get loud or the late flag when a home WR asks for one....the bad ball spots and all the friggin' holding going on that isn't called. Also, the players are starting to cheat more or at least trying to see how much they can get away with. I've seen more pick plays than I care for as well.
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Old 09-20-2012   #10
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Default Re: Numbers indicate little difference between replacement and regular refs

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
I think my issues aren't in 'volume' of flags...its the late flags when the home team's fans get loud or the late flag when a home WR asks for one....the bad ball spots and all the friggin' holding going on that isn't called. Also, the players are starting to cheat more or at least trying to see how much they can get away with. I've seen more pick plays than I care for as well.
Denver almost came back and won because of a huge pick in the 4th quarter. I think it was on the last TD they scored. The DB got layed out onto his back by a pick. I believe it was right in front of the ref. Havent been able to find a clip of it though.
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Old 09-20-2012   #11
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Default Re: Numbers indicate little difference between replacement and regular refs

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
I think my issues aren't in 'volume' of flags...its the late flags when the home team's fans get loud or the late flag when a home WR asks for one....the bad ball spots and all the friggin' holding going on that isn't called. Also, the players are starting to cheat more or at least trying to see how much they can get away with. I've seen more pick plays than I care for as well.
Yep, the part that's killing me is all the mugging of WRs going on. I have seen stuff like this since the 70s. If you have small receivers, you're going to have issues.
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Old 09-20-2012   #12
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Default Re: Numbers indicate little difference between replacement and regular refs

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I haven't thought they have been doing a bad job at all other than being slow. The regulars are losing their leverage week by week.
My thoughts exactly. They're learning as they go, NOT their fault the reg refs went on strike. If it takes them a little more time to make sure of a call, then so be it. Maybe they're just trying harder to GET it RIGHT, which is something the reg refs could care less about sometimes.

If anyone truly believes the reg refs don't have fav teams, and don't play FF, they are dreamin!! JMO!!
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Old 09-20-2012   #13
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Default Re: Numbers indicate little difference between replacement and regular refs

One of the things i hate about the NBA these days is how players, coaches and to a small extent fans influence how the refs call a game with their constant whining and boo-hoo.

Seeing these replacement refs these 1st couple of games gave me that disgusted feeling like i'm watching an NBA game.....& i don't like it 1 bit b/c i LOVE NFL football. I've seen more late flags thrown in 2 weeks than i've seen in like 3 years of watching the NFL.

They're completely overmatched with all the testosterone flowing out there & you can see it....i don't care what the #'s say.
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Old 09-21-2012   #14
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Default Re: Numbers indicate little difference between replacement and regular refs

You know what, screw it. I love having football season back. These guys that are going out there each week and taking a ton of **** from players, coaches and fans for a temporary job.

For fans that are concerned that 'XYZ' penalty is being called more, I can find a million posts on this board berating the 'regular' refs during past seasons. The majority of calls are opinion matters, and will be argued either way by two partisan groups anyway. A truly superior team overcomes a few poor penalty decisions from an official.

Thank you replacement refs - I hope a few of you turn your stint into a permanent role in the league. I'm so much happier debating a referees call, than discussing CBA details.
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Old 09-21-2012   #15
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Default Re: Numbers indicate little difference between replacement and regular refs

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
I've seen more late flags thrown in 2 weeks than i've seen in like 3 years of watching the NFL.

....i don't care what the #'s say.
You can say you don't care what the numbers say, but it doesn't make you right. The average number of flags per game is down. Thats a fact. Its not a manipulation. Its a straight up, countable fact. Its all your perception, and its likely influenced by what you were expecting.

I guarantee you that if the NFL had not told anyone that there were replacement refs, 90+% of fans would have had no idea. But because they did know, they are paying more attention to the refs and the flags and its seeming like its some huge difference.
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Old 09-21-2012   #16
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Default Re: Numbers indicate little difference between replacement and regular refs

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
You can say you don't care what the numbers say, but it doesn't make you right. The average number of flags per game is down. Thats a fact. Its not a manipulation. Its a straight up, countable fact. Its all your perception, and its likely influenced by what you were expecting.

I guarantee you that if the NFL had not told anyone that there were replacement refs, 90+% of fans would have had no idea. But because they did know, they are paying more attention to the refs and the flags and its seeming like its some huge difference.
why does the fact that the number of flags per game being down equate to them doing a good job? If you are getting away with holding or setting an illegal pick that may be a good thing, but not for the guy who's being held of fighting off an illegal pick.
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Old 09-21-2012   #17
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Default Re: Numbers indicate little difference between replacement and regular refs

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why does the fact that the number of flags per game being down equate to them doing a good job? If you are getting away with holding or setting an illegal pick that may be a good thing, but not for the guy who's being held of fighting off an illegal pick.


His statement didnt say they were doing a good job. He was responding to someone who said "I dont care what the numbers say Ive seen more flags" if there are actually less flags then you havent seen more. Id also agree with his point but maybe not the 90% number that many people are looking at this harder because they know its not the normal guys, thats simply human nature imo
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Old 09-21-2012   #18
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Default Re: Numbers indicate little difference between replacement and regular refs

The flags don't bother me so much, it's the game management.

What about when the Seahawks got a 4th timeout in week 1? These new refs are really lucky that the Cardinals ended up winning that game, because that would have sparked outrage.

Also, games seem to be getting out of control. That Atlanta-Denver game was complete chaos. When fighting starts to happen they need to be more proactive breaking that stuff up. As fun as that is to watch, I would rather see the pigskin getting tossed around.
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Old 09-21-2012   #19
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Default Re: Numbers indicate little difference between replacement and regular refs

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The flags don't bother me so much, it's the game management.

What about when the Seahawks got a 4th timeout in week 1? These new refs are really lucky that the Cardinals ended up winning that game, because that would have sparked outrage.

Also, games seem to be getting out of control. That Atlanta-Denver game was complete chaos. When fighting starts to happen they need to be more proactive breaking that stuff up. As fun as that is to watch, I would rather see the pigskin getting tossed around.


The league should empower and encourage the refs to take more control. Throwing some heavy penalties and possible tossing players if the penalties dont work will solve the issue. After that they could start impossing fines to teams as well.
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Old 09-21-2012   #20
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Default Re: Numbers indicate little difference between replacement and regular refs

Stuff like this is what I'm talking about. For the record, before the season started I had a long telephone discussion with infantry about pick plays (as well as other infractions) and how the non-calls were going to be bigger than the blown calls long run...

Quote:
While the NFL muzzles coaches and players from complaining about the joke of replacement officials, the truth must come out:

Atlanta cheated Monday to beat Denver in a prime example of how the sport's integrity and the league standings are being compromised by substandard officiating.

With the game's outcome in the balance, Atlanta gained a first down, squelched a furious rally by the Broncos and iced a 27-21 victory with a pass play where the Falcons were obviously guilty of offensive pass interference that went unpunished by inexperienced NFL refs. Commissioner Roger Goodell should cringe with embarrassment if he inspects the third-down play by Atlanta with 2 minutes, 35 seconds remaining and the Falcons on their own 25-yard line.

Atlanta receiver Roddy White committed offensive pass interference against Denver cornerback Champ Bailey on a classic, illegal pick play that resulted in a six-yard catch by Julio Jones, the beneficiary of the Falcons' disregard for the rules in a situation where replacement officials would naturally be hesitant to make a crucial call certain to be unpopular with the home crowd.

Needing five yards to keep the drive alive and avoid punting to give Denver quarterback Peyton Manning a chance at late-game heroics, the Falcons set two illegal picks to free Jones on an underneath route.
With Bailey at the line of scrimmage in press coverage, he gets shoved down the field by White. Before the snap, the Atlanta tight end points at

Broncos safety Mike Adams, lining up a target to clear out even more space for a short, easy throw from quarterback Matt Ryan to Jones.
Read more: Did Falcons get away with illegal play to extinguish rally by Broncos? - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/lunchspeci...#ixzz27853nVDq
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