Outside O-Line Perspective

[Davis37]

Originally Posted by TexansTrueFan

the line will be fine, yall all worry to much. Carr will not get sacked over 40 plus times this season. Thats a gurantee.

Ill hold to to that gurantee. If they do give up more than 40 sacks im gonna hunt you down!

[U4ikrob]

Originally Posted by TexansTrueFan

the line will be fine, yall all worry to much. Carr will not get sacked over 40 plus times this season. Thats a gurantee.

I'm glad you and some others have so much confidence in this line as everyone else I talk to does not along with almost every commentator and teams in the league. Stats dont lie - 49 sacks last year is an eye-sore and to say everything is hunky dorey - we dont need to draft - we dont need to trade - we just need to give them time to gel more. IMO this is just a smoke and mirrors company line they are trying to pass-off on us fans and Mr. Mcnair because the truth is the FO and coaches are scared of what will happen. Scared for their jobs because IMO - They know they have blown it and are now in full-blown CYA mode in reagrds to the O-line problem they have - thus they are NOW trying to bring in more FA players and address the line - after the fact - after 3 years of poor play, after 3 drafts of players have passed by, after 3 off-seasons and FA time has passed - They now address the issue. - This just blows my mind they get to keep their jobs.

Trust me I understand the 5 year plan and my thinking is its -

To little - too late

I could say a lot more and re-iterate past points, but until the regular season gets here - I'm just specualting like everyone else and I hope it dont turn out like I am speculating or it's going to be a long, long year

[Mr Shush]

You know, three years is quite a short time to expect anyone to put together a team with strong players in all areas. Would you rather look like the Browns, with strength no-where. Our (largest) remaining deficiency is the O-line: fair enough, Casserly and the rest are trying to sort it out. Would you be any happier if we had a good young O-line and a God-awful secondary? 7-9 in a very tough division is good going for a three year team.

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by U4ikrob

I'm glad you and some others have so much confidence in this line as everyone else I talk to does not along with almost every commentator and teams in the league.

You talked to almost every commentator and team in the league? And you didn't summarize it for us and post it here?

Look, I understand you're concerned with what has (and/or hasn't) been done with the OL this off season but I have serious doubts that you have heard "almost every commentator" out there speak their mind on the Houston Texans OL and it's problems. Teams around the league are concentrating on their own problem areas. Nobody's holding press conferences to talk about someone elses offensive line. I call speculation and made up evidence here.

Originally Posted by U4ikrob

Stats dont lie - 49 sacks last year is an eye-sore and to say everything is hunky dorey - we dont need to draft - we dont need to trade - we just need to give them time to gel more. IMO this is just a smoke and mirrors company line they are trying to pass-off on us fans and Mr. Mcnair because the truth is the FO and coaches are scared of what will happen.

Stats do lie. Stats lie all the time. Stats are some of the most misleading things you can point to if you look at them all by themselves. Example: In 2002 David Carr was planted 76 times. Obviously his offensive line gave up 76 sacks right? None of those sacks could have been as a result of DC running out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage could they? None of them could have been a result of DC holding on to the ball too long could they?

When your team gives up 76 sacks there's more to it than merely a problem on the OL. You put a veteran QB back there all year instead of a rookie and that first year line would have given up high 40's to low 50's. They wouldn't have been any better but their QB would have known how to deal with the pressure. Stats are one aspect of this. You can start with stats but in your argument here you completely ignore every other factor that causes the result you see on the field. EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY FACTOR aside from the sacks. You ignore the addition of Todd Wade who was in his first year here. You ignore the fact that Chester Pitts was playing LG for the first time in his life. You ignore the fact that Seth Wand was starting at LT for the first time ever (Here, at this level). You ignore injuries and the effect of an ineffectual running game over the first half of the season.

You're looking at part of a picture and drawing the wrong conclusion from it.

Originally Posted by U4ikrob

Scared for their jobs because IMO - They know they have blown it and are now in full-blown CYA mode in reagrds to the O-line problem they have - thus they are NOW trying to bring in more FA players and address the line - after the fact - after 3 years of poor play, after 3 drafts of players have passed by, after 3 off-seasons and FA time has passed - They now address the issue. - This just blows my mind they get to keep their jobs.

Trust me I understand the 5 year plan and my thinking is its -

To little - too late

I could say a lot more and re-iterate past points, but until the regular season gets here - I'm just specualting like everyone else and I hope it dont turn out like I am speculating or it's going to be a long, long year

I've seen almost no sign of anyone being scared for their job or having shifted into "full blown CYA mode". I see the Texans coaches and GM going about their methodical business of making this team better.

Watch the line when the season starts. Improvement does come from time together where the OL is concerned. It's not smoke and mirrors and it's not a lie they're passing off. If that's the case then it's a lie that's been told since the dawn of modern football. Every major overhaul of an offensive line costs something in terms of efficiency. The Texans have made major changes to their line every season since they took the field. Last year was no different.

Enhance your calm man, it's going to be ok. Actually it's going to better than ok. It's going to be pretty damned good. I'm keeping copies of all these threads just so I can go back at the end of the year and hunt down all the chicken littles to ask them how they feel. This is going to be fun.

[Ibar_Harry]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

Enhance your calm man, it's going to be ok. Actually it's going to better than ok. It's going to be pretty damned good. I'm keeping copies of all these threads just so I can go back at the end of the year and hunt down all the chicken littles to ask them how they feel. This is going to be fun.

Remember Hervoyel it works both ways. May be we'll be able to come back and say I told you so. It's really funny though, because in actuallity I hope you guys are right about the improvement in the O-line. However, I don't think that will be the case unless there are some personnel changes in the O-line. I think most of us would say that McKinney is a big problem. A lot of the discussion centers around Wand - Pitts certainly wants that position though - but probably Wand is not as responsible as McKinney is for many of the problems. Its funny how another poster was commenting about how much better the 2nd year O-line's performance was and yet when I bring that up I'm castegated. Year 3 was something else and the O-line scheme change and everything else resulted in a not so good year. There's an old expression don't fix it, it ain't broken. I'm refering to year 2. It will be interesting to look back to year 3 and say was that the start of something good or the demise of something good. I think the verdict is out on this one.

[U4ikrob]

Until the regular season gets here - I'm just speculating like everyone else

Hervoyel - Nope havent talked personally to every personel dept or commentator in the league - Certainly a summary on my part.

But I can quote more than a handful of sources and references and commentators and newspaper articles all pointing to it if need be. A list of over 10 sources off the top of my head. McClain and justice just did a radio show on the whole thing last week too. Not to mention, ESPN, HPF, Foxsports,CBSPortsline, Chronicle, SI, etc etc - the big issues to address before the draft for the Texans???? - O-line #1 on all of them. Go by most of the sports report sources around the league. The first thing when they talk about the Texans and improvement/draft etc - The O-line is the first topic usually listed. Sometime more than once.

Here are a few sources for those interested

http://www.chron.com/content/chronic...ome/index.html
http://blogs.chron.com/lopezblog/
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8522519
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...del&type=story
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory...texans/3139827
http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2024392

And actually I looked at all of the things you earmarked about our O-line last year. I am trying to look at the big picture [ie-3 -4 years of developing time] and the lack of results with it thus far.

Stats: - yep they do lie on occasion - but 76 sacks in year one, 29+ in year two [i think] and 49 in year 3 dont all = rookie mistakes either. They equal somethign else which is my point. More than anything I think they equal lack of talent.

Your points on - First year positions for Pitts and Wand. But both were in therr 3rd year with the team, Wade in his 5th or 6th I believe. My point is these guys are pro-players, not amatuers, not rookies. They are paid to perform and honestly I expect better results for my money. I saw lack of effort, lack of planning and lack of talent. I pay for tickets and TV like everyone else and want a good pro-product on the field. What I have heard thus far is a lot of excuses on why thigns are not like this or that on the team and little responsability being shouldered by anyone except DC.

Scared of losing jobs - I am willing to make a friendly wager if you will. I am willing to bet you a Coca-Cola that if Carr keeps getting sacked this up-coming year like last year - That by mid-season Somebody in the coaching dept will be losing a job or Carr will be injured severely and somebody will lose a job. Not to mention Mr. Mcnair coming downstairs and basically telling Charlie & co - they will do something to fix the O-line. Results will happen one way or another.

My point is not just a month ago on the front page of the Texans site there is a post about lettign thigns gel and everything being fine - then almost a week or so later they are signing Riley, bringing in other guys for depth, moving wand around and talk of how it didnt work out.

Bottom line for anyone reading my comments - I am a fan #1 of the Houston Texans. I am just finding it hard to get excited about some of the choices I keep seeing over and over again by our front office and coaches. Lack of effort by the team or a player is easy to see, But lack of effort by coaches and planning - you dont see that until it's usually too late. The saying goes "People are paid for results - not excuses" is a pretty universal statement for most jobs. IMO keep hearing more excuses from the FO and seeing less results on the field.

[ojthecat]

Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry

Year 3 was something else and the O-line scheme change and everything else resulted in a not so good year.

Year 3 was our best year todate. We have improved every year. How can you say this type of stuff?