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Old 06-01-2005   #101
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Originally Posted by TexansTrueFan
if they had really wanted pace they coulda made an offer he woulda taken, its not like at the time we were in any kinda cap trouble. It was an opportunity to get a good guy they took it and lost, i wouldnt pass on any kinda all star player either, no matter who i had at the postioion already.
Yeah, when you bring up going after Pace, you're talking about going after a possible future hall of famer, you don't get a chance to go after someone like that every season. That would be like saying that we we're looking to replace Dominic Davis if we tried to sign Tomlinson had he become a franchise player.
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Old 06-01-2005   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansTrueFan
if they had really wanted pace they coulda made an offer he woulda taken, its not like at the time we were in any kinda cap trouble. It was an opportunity to get a good guy they took it and lost, i wouldnt pass on any kinda all star player either, no matter who i had at the postioion already.
Actually, the Rams could have matched any offer the Texans made. Also, by signing Pace to an offer sheet the Texans would have been committing two first round draft picks and ton of money. Not very much was in the Texans corner. While not in the Beltran/Astros mold, Pace used the Texans a bit to get a long-term contract from the Rams.
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Old 06-02-2005   #103
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The fact is Boselli never affected us. Casserly and Capers knew very well that he might never play. We had a deal worked out with Jacksonville that if we took Boselli then we could also take Walker and Payne.
wow man, you gotta open your eyes a bit.
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Old 06-02-2005   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan
While not in the Beltran/Astros mold, Pace used the Texans a bit to get a long-term contract from the Rams.
Drew Rosenhaus = Scott Boras

But in that case it was Carl Poston (Pace's agent) playing the bad guy.
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Old 06-02-2005   #105
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According to Houston channel 2 news at ten last night, Shelton and agent are now in Cleveland and we are miles apart on on the money they want. Stay tuned.
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Old 06-02-2005   #106
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latest found...

Quote:
Browns | To Join Shelton Race - from www.KFFL.com
Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:21:21 -0700

Brad Biggs, of the Chicago Sun-Times, reports the Cleveland Browns have entered the mix of teams that are interested in signing free agent OT L.J. Shelton (Cardinals). With veteran OT Ross Verba threatening to sit out the season, Shelton potentially could step into a starting position.
and yet...
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Browns | Boulware Visiting Today - from www.KFFL.com
Thu, 2 Jun 2005 05:35:12 -0700

Updating a previous report, the Plain Dealer reports free agent LB Peter Boulware (Ravens) is expected take a physical examination and visit with Cleveland Browns coaches Thursday, June 2. If the Browns like what they see medically and athletically from Boulware, they better act fast because he is scheduled to go to Seattle next. The Seattle Seahawks are seen by some as the favorites to land Boulware, partially because his younger brother, Michael, is the team's starting strong safety. "I was told the opportunity for him and Michael to play together was going to be a factor [in his decision]," Baltimore Ravens general manager Ozzie Newsome said Wednesday, June 1. "They've never been able to play together."
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Old 06-02-2005   #107
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Can the Browns afford to sign both? If not, which do they pick if both available?
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Old 06-02-2005   #108
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They need more help on the defensive side of the ball. Last year they gave up the most rushing touchdowns in the leauge.
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Old 06-02-2005   #109
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edo783: Can the Browns afford to sign both? If not, which do they pick if both available?

I believe the Browns are switching to the 3-4 defense. If that's the case I'd think that they'd be more agressive with the signing of Boulware. The Browns are bad all over the place though and definentally could use the help at OT... so who really knows?????
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Old 06-02-2005   #110
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I would rather us not overpay for a guy. If he was not worth what they wanted, the good riddance. Our staff is going to have to work harder to get the job done with what we have.
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Old 06-02-2005   #111
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May be we can trade the Browns Shelton for Verba. A little tongue in cheek, but who knows the way this year has gone.
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Old 06-03-2005   #112
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The guys on 610 are thinking Boulware ends up a Brown and Shelton ends up a Chief. Concerning Shelton, most likely the Texans just offered a one year deal (with next year's draft coming up with good prospects apparently) and the Shelton camp is looking for a multi-year deal or some major $$ for one year.

... and yes, this is just their point of view, not necessarily "official".
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Old 06-03-2005   #113
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-- Shelton Impresses Browns --
Fri Jun 3, 2005 --from FFMastermind.com

The Beacon Journal reports Browns GM Phil Savage said during his presentation that former Arizona OT L.J. Shelton visited on Wednesday and was ``fairly impressive.''
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Old 06-03-2005   #114
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Here is an interesting thing I came across:

Lets compare the Left Tackle stats of LT Shelton vs. Seth Wand and 2003 Left Tackle Chester Pitts.

LJ Shelton Stats

Despite his poor 2002 showing with 9.25 sacks allowed, his overall season average is 5 sacks per season. His false start penalties are at a minimum.

Seth Wand Stats

Although only 1 false start penalty, everything else gets washed out as he was credited with an alarming 12.5 sacks allowed!

Chester Pitts Stats

Chester Pitts in 2003 as starting Left Tackle gave up only 5.75 sacks allowed, but had 8 false start penalties.


Now, compare all three to the "elite" Orlando Pace:
Orlando Pace Stats

Pace in his eight year career (although he started off poor) has an average of 5.47 sacks allowed per season. Last year's false start penalties of 9 is somewhat alarming.

Last edited by TEXANS84; 06-03-2005 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 06-03-2005   #115
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Looking at those stats that TEXANS84 posted it also looks like Pitts has a holding problem when he plays tackle 5 in 2002 and 7 in 2003. While he had 3 last year and Wand had 2.
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Old 06-03-2005   #116
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Wow...how did I overlook Pitts 2002 Left Tackle stats of 15 sacks allowed!

Now Wand looks like an all-pro.
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Old 06-03-2005   #117
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Man, Wand's stats are quite impressive, IMO... 12.5 sacks is certainly a big number but only 1 false start and 2 holding penalties is AMAZING! If there is agreement that he has physical ability to play the position then I think with the kind of concentration and discipline that those stats illustrate, he's going to be a very good LT!

Furthermore, those stats support the argument that myself, Vinny, Lucky, and others have made in his defense. Wand wasn't often severely overmatched. Many of the sacks were a result, at least partially, of the interior line breaking down. I say that because holds happen when you've been beaten. False starts happen when you're overmatched and know it. Since neither happened with Wand it is evidence that he was rarely dominated.
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Old 06-03-2005   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXANS84
Wow...how did I overlook Pitts 2002 Left Tackle stats of 15 sacks allowed!

Now Wand looks like an all-pro.
That's the thing for all the let's give up on Wand after one season people--Pitts went from 15.5 sacks in 2002 to 5.75 in 2003 (but in the process trading away almost twice as many penalties). It is not unreasonable to expect or hope for similar improvement from Wand (who really has had no penalty problem so far) to something around 5-8 sacks this year. That is a liveable range of sacks from the LT position given up by all but the elite LT's in the league, especially considering his run blocking is already above average and should improve as well. The average number of sacks given up by the LT's of the playoff teams last year was 5 with a low of 0 by Walter Jones and a high of 11 by Bryant Mckinnie.
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Old 06-03-2005   #119
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Agreed. Wand isn't that bad and deserves the chance to prove himself this year, before being replaced or moved to guard.
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Old 06-03-2005   #120
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I think the holding penalties were pretty huge this year also. It wiped out a few TDs (Davis in NY) and it wiped out some potential scoring drives.

i don't think the signing of Shelton changes the way anyone views the talent level or potential Wand has. However what it does is give us more options and gives us a much quicker fix for this year and it allows Wand to mature into his position, and it creates competition. Basically what I am saying is that it gives us real good depth.
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