Connor Barwin?

[Rey]

Originally Posted by welsh texan

Didn't they have to swap positions a few games in because it wasn't working? Everyone always says how we didn't miss a beat when Mario went down, I actually thought there was a period of adjustment where they weren't quite getting there for a few games before Watt, Barwin and Reed went sick down the stretch and into the playoffs.

Barwin went to wolb the first game after the injury if i recall correctly.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by GP

I'd play three safeties.

Manning is hoss enough to make it work, too.

Wade could set up some scary **** if he put three safeties out there and had one of those three always creeping up to the LOS (middle, edge, wherever).

We lost our best ILB, so my thinking is "Why fight against it? Adapt."

And Danieal Manning is an old school Safety, the kind of guy who can drift down and play the run or play coverage. He's capable of doing so much more than he has been.

I can't wait to see how Wade adapts to this. He's at his best when he has to solve problems and get creative. Manning, IMO, could really be a shot in the arm here if he's unleashed.

We already play three safeties a bunch.

We put personnel on the field based on what the offense puts out there.

Are you saying we should play three safeties as a base package? Even if the offense has personnel on the field that would make us susceptible against the run?

No safety on this team is going to survive taking on guards and tackles on a regular basis.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Rey

We already play three safeties a bunch.

We put personnel on the field based on what the offense puts out there.

Are you saying we should play three safeties as a base package? Even if the offense has personnel on the field that would make us susceptible against the run?

No safety on this team is going to survive taking on guards and tackles on a regular basis.

You know, I haven't really thought about that, but you're right. Dobbins replacing Cushing isn't as bad as it sounds, he won't be on the field as much as you'd think, since Bradie will probably stay in dime packages... so that's another option to the moving Reed inside.

But, we could play more dime packages, dropping Keo down as that "smallish" LB every now & then But bringing Quin down in his "normal" situations with Nolan playing deep.

[welsh texan]

posted this in another thread just now but guess it belongs in here;

Got to say this has surprised me about Barwin, when drafted the talk was that he was a tweener prospect who would be a pass rushing specialist in the 4-3, his rookie season he put up good numbers in terms of sacks playing spot duty.

Also, his second season I remember lots of quotes (and no....I'm not going to trawl through and find them) from Kubiak about how big a loss he was to our D, because although not pegged to start, he had a key role in our plans to create pressure. We definitely missed his production and struggled to generate pressure that year.

Perhaps Wade has coached something different into him over the offseason, having realised he can get all the pressure he needs on that side from Watt, IDK.

Just something doesn't add up to me, dude's put up really good pass rushing numbers from various positions over his pro career, is in his contract year, and is playing for a coach who is great at getting pressure from that specific position.

All this makes me extremely wary of putting the guy down, I reckon if you were to sit down with Wade Phillips and ask him how Barwin is playing this season, I think he'd be happy that he's doing exactly whats being asked of him. Now that really is pure conjecture, but I just struggle to beleive that, all factors considered, this guy has chosen now to suddenly throw a Zac Diles on us.

[welsh texan]

On the worry that playing an extra safety in run situations might get them hurt...Troy Nolan is a guy who we have on this team as a short term band-aid due to the Demps injury, he knows the system but at the same time he's a guy who's getting cut as soon as we have the guys we prefer back.

Let him/some street FA take the pounding and what have we really lost?

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by welsh texan

On the worry that playing an extra safety in run situations might get them hurt...Troy Nolan is a guy who we have on this team as a short term band-aid due to the Demps injury, he knows the system but at the same time he's a guy who's getting cut as soon as we have the guys we prefer back.

Let him/some street FA take the pounding and what have we really lost?

I like Keo taking that beating better.

Wade had to have kept him for a reason.

[kiwitexansfan]

Not so concerned about a safety getting wear and tear as I would be there inability to be effective taking on big lineman.

Look what New England has done on the ground against teams playing too many DBs, and they are not even a particularly good run team.

[Rey]

When I say they aren't going to survive, I mean they aren't going to be effective either.

You going to have a safety taking on linemen and fb's multiple times a game?

That's a recipe for disaster.

I don't understand the logic of putting a safety next to bradie James when an offense brings out their base personnel.

Maybe if we had a big safety then you could slip him in there every now and then, but if I see Troy Nolan or shilo f'n keo lined up at ilb when I have a TE and fb on the field I'm screaming out an audible and I'm running an iso right in their face. I'd then hurry to the line and do the same thing.

[Texecutioner]

I think people need to get off of Barwin's ass. The guy is a baller. Sure he doesn't have a ton of sack numbers right now, but it's not like he is useless out there. He has made some pretty good plays that have been overlooked. Give Barwin some patience. I love having that guy on this team. I think that Barwin will have a huge game any day now.

[b0ng]

Right now he's not performing as he had last year but it's not Halloween yet so I'm not going to completely jump the guy. I do wonder how Mercilus is progressing since we see so little of him. My guess is not as quickly as we had hoped he would.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Rey

Barwin went to wolb the first game after the injury if i recall correctly.

Welsh remembered corectly, Barwin remained at SOLB for a couple of games before moving to WOLB. I checked the game tapes. But you can also look at the game books. In week 6 and week 7, Barwin still had the SOLB designation.

However, remember that we don't line up our OLBs at the same position the whole game. When we talk about Mario being the WOLB, it means he lined up there a majority of the time, but there were times he lined up at SOLB as well.

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by b0ng

Right now he's not performing as he had last year but it's not Halloween yet so I'm not going to completely jump the guy. I do wonder how Mercilus is progressing since we see so little of him. My guess is not as quickly as we had hoped he would.

This is true Bong, but our defense is still top notch. I just think that Barwin is sort of losing his chance at plays because other players are getting there faster in a lot of cases.

I think Mercilous is the guy to worry about a lot more for now. At least Barwin has proven that he can make big plays consistently before. Mercilous can't even play well enough yet to get himself on the field. What in the hell is that guy doing in practice where the staff won't put him out there much? I'm very concerned about this 1st round pick. Right now it's not looking like a good pick at all, but it's still VERY EARLY, so I'll hold out hope.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Rey

When I say they aren't going to survive, I mean they aren't going to be effective either.

You going to have a safety taking on linemen and fb's multiple times a game?

That's a recipe for disaster.

I don't understand the logic of putting a safety next to bradie James when an offense brings out their base personnel.

Maybe if we had a big safety then you could slip him in there every now and then, but if I see Troy Nolan or shilo f'n keo lined up at ilb when I have a TE and fb on the field I'm screaming out an audible and I'm running an iso right in their face. I'd then hurry to the line and do the same thing.

^^^ Agree completely. We will never see that happen!

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

This is true Bong, but our defense is still top notch. I just think that Barwin is sort of losing his chance at plays because other players are getting there faster in a lot of cases.

I think Mercilous is the guy to worry about a lot more for now. At least Barwin has proven that he can make big plays consistently before. Mercilous can't even play well enough yet to get himself on the field. What in the hell is that guy doing in practice where the staff won't put him out there much? I'm very concerned about this 1st round pick. Right now it's not looking like a good pick at all, but it's still VERY EARLY, so I'll hold out hope.

I wouldn't worry about either guys, yet.

Barwin didn't see much of the field early in his rookie year.
Neither did Brooks... and then the injury to Mario happened.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

This is true Bong, but our defense is still top notch. I just think that Barwin is sort of losing his chance at plays because other players are getting there faster in a lot of cases.

We blitzed Quin against Denver, then McCain against the Jets. I know other defensive coordinators do it all the time, but when our front 7 is getting pressure on the QB, Wade has elected not to do things like that. It's rare for a DB to get a sack on this team.

In fact, it's rare to send an ILB. When Barwin, Watt, Antonio, & Mario were averaging 3 or 4 sacks a game, our ILB were not rushing the passer, they focused on our run defense, which was better when the down linemen were penetrating.

& it's not just a lot of cases, it's every case. Week 5 with no sacks means every case, which is just unfathomable. Same with Antonio, 1.5 sacks & we're like top 5 in sacks, it's every case. A little more "acceptable" from Antonio playing the 3 tech, not so much from Barwin, playing the position "designed" to rack up sacks.

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

I think Mercilous is the guy to worry about a lot more for now. At least Barwin has proven that he can make big plays consistently before. Mercilous can't even play well enough yet to get himself on the field. What in the hell is that guy doing in practice where the staff won't put him out there much? I'm very concerned about this 1st round pick. Right now it's not looking like a good pick at all, but it's still VERY EARLY, so I'll hold out hope.

We're going to have to define "consistently." we wouldn't be having this conversation if Barwin was consistently making plays. But I am curious & starting to get worried. Wade won't consider getting Merci on the field more (which is what we would accomplish by moving Reed inside), Brandon Harris can't spell Jonathan Joseph (who is having issues),