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Old 09-06-2012   #41
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He was...until he bought [the best] d-coord, a GREAT CB, and a [good] Safety.

To act as if he was always a big spender is so lame.

When the hell have we EVER been up against the cap prior to this year? Never. 9 years of being well under the cap, in year 10 we might be over or right at it...so unmm yeah, he has never spent like this before.


Fixed that one for you


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Old 09-06-2012   #42
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Default Re: Report: Texans over salary cap by 700k

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
I see this as the league reducing player movement and controlling costs.
The new CBA cap is a way for the have nots and small market teams to force the other teams to "balance the league". For a limited time teams like Buffalo will be able to sign FAs such as Mario Williams but eventually even those teams will be restricted in spending. Parity, is it a beautiful thing?

I expect an end to back loading contracts for the most part and maybe a beginning to writing contracts much differently. I would think a vet's contract should reflect his projected better years with the higher salary. Using a player like Schaub for example, his skills should (not necessarily will) deteriorate as he gets older. IMO, his first year of any new deal should be highest and either level or reduce each year. At first, this probably will encourage most FAs to seek the golden goose elsewhere. I think this is to allow NFL owners to get a more manageable cost with rosters.
MSR.

This is exactly what I was talking about. The way this cap is going to work is effectively going to minimize Free Agency.
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Old 09-06-2012   #43
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Default Re: Report: Texans over salary cap by 700k

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Originally Posted by utahmark View Post
Not spending big money on free agents when this team had no chance of doing anything would of only made it impossible to go out and get a couple of guys last year(when it actually made a difference). Being smart with your money and building through the draft is not the same as being cheap. Our players who came from other teams have mentioned the difference of playing for cheap owners and how Bob is not cheap.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...exans-are-not/

Now when we need to start spending a little money to compliment our draft we have seen that he will. I think we can put that fantasy to rest.
The question is about spending money, not about how or when to spend the money.

I don't even know how we can define what cheap is, tbh.

It would be better to ask ourselves questions such as "why did it take so long to hire a FULLY competent d-coord?" The short answer is that Wade was not available, but that neglects that there were other d-coord fish in the sea.

And then this is where people mock and say "OK, big shot...so who would YOU have liked to see as d-coord back when Smith and then Bush were d-coord???? huh????" To which I say, "That's not my job. That's Bob McNair's job, and his GM's job, and for whatever set of reasons they had at the time...most likely an issue with letting Kubiak pick his d-coords...Bob and Rick and Gary screwed up, twice, and hit pay dirt the 3rd time with Phillips as d-coord. Hooray!"

But let's just act like we inevitably needed to suck ass in order to get HERE where we are today. That's the ticket, isn't it? To act like some of you are better and smarter because you juuuuust knew that Bob would turn things around. LOL.

While I don't sit here and say the man is a complete hack, like some do, I will definitely say that he has finally learned that not everything Gary Kubiak decides is what needs to happen. Thank God we have a competent d-coord who knows what to do, and is allowed to be d-coord like he wants to.

Gene Chizik is a defensive mastermind, and HE was available at the time Kubiak became HC. I know, I know..."But Gene Chizik was going to be the Iowa State head coach! He never would have accepted a lowly d-coord job in the NFL!" Bull****. If you get the chance to make a jump to the big leagues, you do it. Because then you become a HC after proving your d-coord skills in the NFL.

Face it, Bob McNair let Gary have the store all to himself and Gary couldn't handle all the details. I don't care how it actually went down, but thank the good Lord Wade Phillips got here. And whomever got him here deserves a big Thank You from all Texans fans. I don't think that someone was Gary Kubiak, IMO, but oh well. I'm just glad Gary is not choosing d-coords anymore. Period.
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Old 09-06-2012   #44
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Default Re: Report: Texans over salary cap by 700k

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
The question is about spending money, not about how or when to spend the money.

I don't even know how we can define what cheap is, tbh.

It would be better to ask ourselves questions such as "why did it take so long to hire a FULLY competent d-coord?" The short answer is that Wade was not available, but that neglects that there were other d-coord fish in the sea.

And then this is where people mock and say "OK, big shot...so who would YOU have liked to see as d-coord back when Smith and then Bush were d-coord???? huh????" To which I say, "That's not my job. That's Bob McNair's job, and his GM's job, and for whatever set of reasons they had at the time...most likely an issue with letting Kubiak pick his d-coords...Bob and Rick and Gary screwed up, twice, and hit pay dirt the 3rd time with Phillips as d-coord. Hooray!"

But let's just act like we inevitably needed to suck ass in order to get HERE where we are today. That's the ticket, isn't it? To act like some of you are better and smarter because you juuuuust knew that Bob would turn things around. LOL.

While I don't sit here and say the man is a complete hack, like some do, I will definitely say that he has finally learned that not everything Gary Kubiak decides is what needs to happen. Thank God we have a competent d-coord who knows what to do, and is allowed to be d-coord like he wants to.

Gene Chizik is a defensive mastermind, and HE was available at the time Kubiak became HC. I know, I know..."But Gene Chizik was going to be the Iowa State head coach! He never would have accepted a lowly d-coord job in the NFL!" Bull****. If you get the chance to make a jump to the big leagues, you do it. Because then you become a HC after proving your d-coord skills in the NFL.

Face it, Bob McNair let Gary have the store all to himself and Gary couldn't handle all the details. I don't care how it actually went down, but thank the good Lord Wade Phillips got here. And whomever got him here deserves a big Thank You from all Texans fans. I don't think that someone was Gary Kubiak, IMO, but oh well. I'm just glad Gary is not choosing d-coords anymore. Period.
You seem to be basing your "McNair is cheap" argument around the selection of D-coordinators. I would probably try again because that doesn't make much sense.
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Old 09-06-2012   #45
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Default Re: Report: Texans over salary cap by 700k

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
You seem to be basing your "McNair is cheap" argument around the selection of D-coordinators. I would probably try again because that doesn't make much sense.
i dont really see where he is saying McNair is cheap, seems to me he is saying that originally all of the D.C were Kubiaks guys, and those experiments never worked. Thats what i'm getting from it.
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Old 09-06-2012   #46
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Default Re: Report: Texans over salary cap by 700k

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
i dont really see where he is saying McNair is cheap, seems to me he is saying that originally all of the D.C were Kubiaks guys, and those experiments never worked. Thats what i'm getting from it.
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Originally Posted by GP View Post
He was...until he bought a GREAT d-coord, a GREAT CB, and a GREAT Safety.

To act as if he was always a big spender is so lame.

When the hell have we EVER been up against the cap prior to this year? Never. 9 years of being well under the cap, in year 10 we might be over or right at it...so unmm yeah, he has never spent like this before.
Seems like a lot of words for a generally hands-off owner who has no problems paying players to stay here and come here as well as pay coaches and GM's that he likes.

I can name 10 owners off the top of my head that would drive me absolutely crazy with how ridiculous they are in public way more than Bob McNair has done:

1. Jerry Jones
2. Dan Snyder
3. Bidwells
4. Glazers
5. Bud Adams
6. Paul Brown
7. Tom Benson
8. Jim Irsay
9. Stephen Ross
10. William C. Ford

And there's a hell of a lot of perpetually bad team owners that aren't on that list. Seems like a lot of bluster over nothing really.
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Old 09-06-2012   #47
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Default Re: Report: Texans over salary cap by 700k

Antonio Smith
Wade Smith
Anthony Weaver
Ahman Green


All examples of our team spending money on FAs at the top of their FA class. The only difference between those guys & Manning/Joseph is that we got Manning/Joseph in an area of need when we had few "wholes" on the team.
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Old 09-06-2012   #48
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Default Re: Report: Texans over salary cap by 700k

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
seems like a lot of words for a generally hands-off owner who has no problems paying players to stay here and come here as well as pay coaches and gm's that he likes.

I can name 10 owners off the top of my head that would drive me absolutely crazy with how ridiculous they are in public way more than bob mcnair has done:

1. Jerry jones
2. Dan snyder
3. Bidwells
4. Glazers
5. Bud adams
6. Paul brown
7. Tom benson
8. Jim irsay
9. Stephen ross
10. William c. Ford

and there's a hell of a lot of perpetually bad team owners that aren't on that list. seems like a lot of bluster over nothing really.
Amen!
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Old 09-07-2012   #49
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Default Re: Report: Texans over salary cap by 700k

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
He was...until he bought a GREAT d-coord, a GREAT CB, and a GREAT Safety.

To act as if he was always a big spender is so lame.

When the hell have we EVER been up against the cap prior to this year? Never. 9 years of being well under the cap, in year 10 we might be over or right at it...so unmm yeah, he has never spent like this before.
And you have proof of this?
Link(s) please..... links that show what the salary cap was during those 9 seasons and how close we were to being up against it.
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Old 09-07-2012   #50
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Default Re: Report: Texans over salary cap by 700k

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
You seem to be basing your "McNair is cheap" argument around the selection of D-coordinators. I would probably try again because that doesn't make much sense.
Yeah, because Richard Smith and Frank Bush were really, REALLY prestigious d-coordinators who commanded a ****-load of money, right b0ng?

Oh wait, that would be someone of WADE PHILLIPS' level of expertise who commands a lot of money. I can see how that doesn't make sense to you.
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Old 09-07-2012   #51
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Default Re: Report: Texans over salary cap by 700k

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And you have proof of this?
Link(s) please..... links that show what the salary cap was during those 9 seasons and how close we were to being up against it.
Oh come off it. Yeah, let me go to www.TexansCapSpaceEveryYear.com to show you.

You know damn well we never spent the allotment of cap space, and it wasn't as if we only had $500K of space or something, either. It was in the millions. Furthermore, there's no accurate handle on what our cap space was every year, and even guys like DutchRudder--guys who spend insane amounts of time trying to get a handle of cap space--don't get it right. The proof is that McNair (a) hired a bonafide d-coord and paid him crazy money like no other d-coord has ever been paid here before, and (b) the free agency acquisitions of Manning and Joseph, and (c) having to let go Brisiel, Winston, Ryans, Dreessen, and Allen. Especially letter C because we just had no cap space for like the first time ever.

But you know that, you just pull the "Oh yeah? Show me!" card. Weak sauce, and you know it.

What other season were we letting so many good players go because of cap problems????????????? Exactly.
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Old 09-07-2012   #52
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Default Re: Report: Texans over salary cap by 700k

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Oh come off it. Yeah, let me go to www.TexansCapSpaceEveryYear.com to show you.

You know damn well we never spent the allotment of cap space, and it wasn't as if we only had $500K of space or something, either. It was in the millions. Furthermore, there's no accurate handle on what our cap space was every year, and even guys like DutchRudder--guys who spend insane amounts of time trying to get a handle of cap space--don't get it right. The proof is that McNair (a) hired a bonafide d-coord and paid him crazy money like no other d-coord has ever been paid here before, and (b) the free agency acquisitions of Manning and Joseph, and (c) having to let go Brisiel, Winston, Ryans, Dreessen, and Allen. Especially letter C because we just had no cap space for like the first time ever.

But you know that, you just pull the "Oh yeah? Show me!" card. Weak sauce, and you know it.

What other season were we letting so many good players go because of cap problems????????????? Exactly.
Just because everyone yelled it at the top of their lungs in the past doesn't make it factual.

I'm an engineer. I'm ALWAYS going to ask for the data (or try and find it myself). Anything else is just opinion or worse, marketing-type arm-waving.

oh and when i clicked that link I got this...
Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage

...there must be a typo in there someplace.
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Old 09-07-2012   #53
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Default Re: Report: Texans over salary cap by 700k

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Yeah, because Richard Smith and Frank Bush were really, REALLY prestigious d-coordinators who commanded a ****-load of money, right b0ng?

Oh wait, that would be someone of WADE PHILLIPS' level of expertise who commands a lot of money. I can see how that doesn't make sense to you.
Coaches don't count against the cap.

For years, the Texans had one of the largest -- if not highest paid -- coaching staffs in the league. I'm not sure if we still do or not. However, if money was at issue, I'd imagine we could have done without a lot of those assistant coaches.
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Old 09-07-2012   #54
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Default Re: Report: Texans over salary cap by 700k

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Oh come off it. Yeah, let me go to www.TexansCapSpaceEveryYear.com to show you.

You know damn well we never spent the allotment of cap space, and it wasn't as if we only had $500K of space or something, either. It was in the millions.
Total BS. Keith Weiland and AJ kept track of the cap for years and we were never running around with millions to spend. 1-2 means nothing in the NFL.
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Old 09-07-2012   #55
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Default Re: Report: Texans over salary cap by 700k

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Oh come off it. Yeah, let me go to www.TexansCapSpaceEveryYear.com to show you.

You know damn well we never spent the allotment of cap space, and it wasn't as if we only had $500K of space or something, either. It was in the millions. Furthermore, there's no accurate handle on what our cap space was every year, and even guys like DutchRudder--guys who spend insane amounts of time trying to get a handle of cap space--don't get it right. The proof is that McNair (a) hired a bonafide d-coord and paid him crazy money like no other d-coord has ever been paid here before, and (b) the free agency acquisitions of Manning and Joseph, and (c) having to let go Brisiel, Winston, Ryans, Dreessen, and Allen. Especially letter C because we just had no cap space for like the first time ever.

But you know that, you just pull the "Oh yeah? Show me!" card. Weak sauce, and you know it.

What other season were we letting so many good players go because of cap problems????????????? Exactly.
You kinda contradict youself.
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Old 09-07-2012   #56
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Default Re: Report: Texans over salary cap by 700k

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Total BS. Keith Weiland and AJ kept track of the cap for years and we were never running around with millions to spend. 1-2 means nothing in the NFL.
Leave him with his


Someone has to be that guy , may as well be GP .... he does it well.


No hard feelin's GP ....
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Old 09-07-2012   #57
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What other season were we letting so many good players go because of cap problems????????????? Exactly.
Well, I can't remember a season where we had that many good players hit the open market.

As you become better as s team, the players you lose will be better.
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Old 09-08-2012   #58
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Default Re: Report: Texans over salary cap by 700k

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Yeah, because Richard Smith and Frank Bush were really, REALLY prestigious d-coordinators who commanded a ****-load of money, right b0ng?

Oh wait, that would be someone of WADE PHILLIPS' level of expertise who commands a lot of money. I can see how that doesn't make sense to you.
Seriously doubt McNair had input on what DC was chosen and how much to pay them. If I remember right, in terms of coaches anyway, we hired Alex Gibbs as an asst coach, when we already had an OL coach, along with some other assistant coaches and had one of the more expensive staffs around.

Even then, all your crying about who the DC was (and his salary, like that even matters) should be directed at Kubiak and Smith. I've said many times that McNairs spending habits resemble the GM at the time, not his own personal agendas for players and coaches like that jackass up 45N.
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Old 09-08-2012   #59
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Default Re: Report: Texans over salary cap by 700k

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Well, I can't remember a season where we had that many good players :period:
Nuff said.....

I agree with your whole post, but for this conversation, that's all that needs to be said.




Unless you're GP of course.
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Old 09-08-2012   #60
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Default Re: Report: Texans over salary cap by 700k

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The teams with the least cap space are the 49ers with $880,000 and the Texans with $882,000. (The Texans could have had $1 million more, but they inexplicably opted not to carry over their excess space from 2011.)
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I have yet to see any reasonable explanation for this 2011 unused $1.08 million cap space not being carried over to this year..............other than the conclusion I reached back in June in another cap thread..............that the Texans forgot about and failed to file the request properly before the deadline. The additional $1.08 million could have without doubt found good use this year.

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Under Article 13, Section 6(b)(v) of the CBA, each team may carry over any remaining cap room from one year to the next by submitting written notice, signed by the owner of the team, to the league office no later than 14 days before the start of the next league year. The written notice must indicate the maximum amount of cap room that the team wishes to shift from one cap year to the next.
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