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Old 08-31-2012   #121
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

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Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan View Post
I may have overlooked it, but i don't think anyone has addresed the other possibility; Yates. At least from his limited pre-season work, it did not look like he made true progeression to being a no doubt about back-up in training to be a starter. He looked like a late round draft pick that has some potential.
Good point, and I don't think we're overlooking it.

Yates still needs quite a bit of improvement.
I was hoping that he would show a little better this PS.

We're not out of the woods yet in this department.
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Old 08-31-2012   #122
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Originally Posted by speedfreek View Post
Dude, he's thrown 16 passes. What credentials do you have to say he isn't NFL good?

I understand the hate for Case-lovers, but not the hate for Case..

TJ
The same credentials you have to say he is good. I just don't see it. Never had. Yes he was a great college QB but that means NOTHING now.
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Old 08-31-2012   #123
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

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The same credentials you have to say he is good. I just don't see it. Never had. Yes he was a great college QB but that means NOTHING now.
I agree that he hasn't shown "good", but he still plays "mistake-free" football.

Overthrown balls (if you want to call them that) were where only the receivers can get to it.

He didn't turn the ball over.
(The same cannot be said for Yates during his rookie PS).

The incompletion he threw to Posey was a miscommuncation between them two.
Keenum was pressured and he threw the ball to the empty space wherethe receiver would have catch.
I don't blame Posey for trying to adjust when he saw the QB pressured.

They need a lot more time to develop an understanding between themselves so that they can be on the same page.

And remember that Yates had 4 years in a copy-cat WCO to the Texans at UNC. He's quite familiar with the system, and so is Beck.

Keenum has been learning a different system.

Look at what they do with RG III in Washington.
They brought him along slowly because (in college) he wasn't in the WCO either.
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Old 08-31-2012   #124
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

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I agree that he hasn't shown "good", but he still plays "mistake-free" football.

Overthrown balls (if you want to call them that) were where only the receivers can get to it.

He didn't turn the ball over.
(The same cannot be said for Yates during his rookie PS).

The incompletion he threw to Posey was a miscommuncation between them two.
Keenum was pressured and he threw the ball to the empty space wherethe receiver would have catch.
I don't blame Posey for trying to adjust when he saw the QB pressured.

They need a lot more time to develop an understanding between themselves so that they can be on the same page.

And remember that Yates had 4 years in a copy-cat WCO to the Texans at UNC. He's quite familiar with the system, and so is Beck.

Keenum has been learning a different system.

Look at what they do with RG III in Washington.
They brought him along slowly because (in college) he wasn't in the WCO either.
I don't hate the guy; hope no one is reading that. All I'm saying is that right now, he's not a good fight for us and there are other guys that are.

He has played mistake free football, that is true. A lot of people wanna say he is a gunslinger but flat out you can't be a game manager and a gunslinger.

Idk...I just think once cuts are made we will have better options for that Practice Squad QB. I just don't see Case being that answer.
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Old 08-31-2012   #125
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

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Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan View Post
I may have overlooked it, but i don't think anyone has addresed the other possibility; Yates. At least from his limited pre-season work, it did not look like he made true progeression to being a no doubt about back-up in training to be a starter. He looked like a late round draft pick that has some potential.
Yates looked a lot better when he was surrounded by the 1st team o-line and Arian Foster. Not yet the guy who can carry a team.
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Old 08-31-2012   #126
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

He threw SIXTEEN PASSES.

Beck's been in the nfl for years and was in the same system last year. Keenum had the playbook for 2 months.

Beck and Keenum had almost identical stats in the game except Posey ran his slant in for a TD and Norris dropped his.

It's absurd for you to state that Keenum isn't and NFL QB after the limited time and action he's had.

_absurd_



I don't know if he will be good or not, but no way in hell I say he's bad. The guy had drives that were 16 passes in college (and became the most successfull passer in NCAA history by his final year). He got 16 in 3 games with Gary..

But that's fine, he'll get his chances. When he was a freshman his coach couldn't decide between him and a guy who ended up not starting as a JuCo QB when he transferred..

TJ

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The same credentials you have to say he is good. I just don't see it. Never had. Yes he was a great college QB but that means NOTHING now.
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Old 08-31-2012   #127
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

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Originally Posted by speedfreek View Post
He threw SIXTEEN PASSES.

Beck's been in the nfl for years and was in the same system last year. Keenum had the playbook for 2 months.

Beck and Keenum had almost identical stats in the game except Posey ran his slant in for a TD and Norris dropped his.

It's absurd for you to state that Keenum isn't and NFL QB after the limited time and action he's had.

_absurd_



I don't know if he will be good or not, but no way in hell I say he's bad. The guy had drives that were 16 passes in college (and became the most successfull passer in NCAA history by his final year). He got 16 in 3 games with Gary..

But that's fine, he'll get his chances. When he was a freshman his coach couldn't decide between him and a guy who ended up not starting as a JuCo QB when he transferred..

TJ
What did all those college passes get him? NOT DRAFTED

What did those 16 Preseason games passes get him? CUT

We can agree to disagree but at this point it's you saying that all 32 teams are wrong. It doesn't matter what you or I think; the experts have already pegged him.

BTW - Gary has seen way more than 16 passes. To hear you spin it Gary would close his eyes when Case dropped back to throw in practice (PRACTICE). Gary being the QB "expert". Come on man...

Seattle brought Flynn in as decent priced FA. A guy that had the playbook for 2 months beat him out for the STARTING position. Why does Keenum and all his NCAA passing records get a break for not being able to beat out the THIRD string guy? You're 2 month theory holds no water. Sorry.
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Old 08-31-2012   #128
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

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I don't hate the guy; hope no one is reading that. All I'm saying is that right now, he's not a good fight for us and there are other guys that are.

He has played mistake free football, that is true. A lot of people wanna say he is a gunslinger but flat out you can't be a game manager and a gunslinger.

Idk...I just think once cuts are made we will have better options for that Practice Squad QB. I just don't see Case being that answer.
Of course, I don't think you or anybody is hating on the guy.

There are legitimate concerns with his size, and not being as athletic as Newton, Luck, RG III, or Wilson.

The one thing I disagree on is the competition level he had in college.
On the surface, it is true that the competition he faced was not on the same level as most QBs drafted.

But I have said many times that his O-line wasn't all that great.
Keenum had to work against those pressure a lot.

He used to have some of the gunslinger mentality because he needed to make some plays. That was why he was able to bring the Cougars back to an almost upset against Alabama in 07.

The good QBs eventually learn not to force things (including many good QBs in the NFL recently).

And that's what he did.
That's what RG III did last year in the collegiate scenario.
That's what Wilson did as well.

For Keenum to have any degree of success in the NFL, he needs to remain very smart, and very poise/calm.
He doesn't have quite the athleticism to help his game otherwise.
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Old 08-31-2012   #129
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

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Of course, I don't think you or anybody is hating on the guy.

There are legitimate concerns with his size, and not being as athletic as Newton, Luck, RG III, or Wilson.

The one thing I disagree on is the competition level he had in college.
On the surface, it is true that the competition he faced was not on the same level as most QBs drafted.

But I have said many times that his O-line wasn't all that great.
Keenum had to work against those pressure a lot.

He used to have some of the gunslinger mentality because he needed to make some plays. That was why he was able to bring the Cougars back to an almost upset against Alabama in 07.

The good QBs eventually learn not to force things (including many good QBs in the NFL recently).

And that's what he did.
That's what RG III did last year in the collegiate scenario.
That's what Wilson did as well.

For Keenum to have any degree of success in the NFL, he needs to remain very smart, and very poise/calm.
He doesn't have quite the athleticism to help his game otherwise.
And that is the most level headed comment I have read about Keenum. That logic I can get behind and support.
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Old 08-31-2012   #130
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

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And that is the most level headed comment I have read about Keenum. That logic I can get behind and support.
For that, I thank you very much.

See, it's possible to have different opinions about a player (etc.) and still have a conversation.

I would rather not going into monologues, because that is not what a forum is all about.

Let's keep it going.
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Old 09-01-2012   #131
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't kubiak only carry two QB's into the Jags road game last year?

I realize that's a different situation and he only had a week to make that decision, but I'm just asking a question...
Although not active for the game, Kellen Clemens was on the 53 man roster for the Jaguars game. He took the spot that opened up when Schaub went on IR.
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Old 09-01-2012   #132
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

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Although not active for the game, Kellen Clemens was on the 53 man roster for the Jaguars game. He took the spot that opened up when Schaub went on IR.
Huh? What? Kellen Clemens?

I don't recall Clemens being on the Texans. Ever. Wasn't he with the Rams last year?
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Old 09-01-2012   #133
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

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Huh? What? Kellen Clemens?

I don't recall Clemens being on the Texans. Ever. Wasn't he with the Rams last year?
Right after Schaub went to IR.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/72...kellen-clemens
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Old 09-01-2012   #134
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

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beck > case
forsett > grimes
posey will not be cut imo, even if he doesn't have a good game.
Norris should make the team. Don't think i've seen him since the panthers game tho.
3/4
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Old 09-01-2012   #135
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

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We must have cut him almost immediately because by the end of the year, our backups were Delhomme and Garcia. Pro Football Reference doesn't show him as having been with us. I don't even remember signing him. Of course, my brain cells come and go with the tides, so that doesn't mean much.
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Old 09-01-2012   #136
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

no, he actually dressed for a game or two over delhomme and garcia.
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Old 09-01-2012   #137
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

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We must have cut him almost immediately because by the end of the year, our backups were Delhomme and Garcia. Pro Football Reference doesn't show him as having been with us. I don't even remember signing him. Of course, my brain cells come and go with the tides, so that doesn't mean much.
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...3&postcount=55
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Old 09-01-2012   #138
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

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no, he actually dressed for a game or two over delhomme and garcia.
He didn't dress for either of the two games he was on the roster(@ Jacksonville and Atlanta), and Garcia was signed after Clemens was released (The day after, not coincidentally).
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Old 09-01-2012   #139
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

Let me explain exactly where your logic is as faulty as a blown fuse in regards to Gary's 2 month evaluation of Case's talent (or the other 31 teams for that matter..)

Allow me to insert one name into your argument for you to chew on..

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What did all those college runs get him? NOT DRAFTED

What did those 16 Preseason games passes get him? CUT

We can agree to disagree but at this point it's you saying that all 32 teams are wrong. It doesn't matter what you or I think; the experts have already pegged him.

BTW - Gary has seen way more than 16 runs. To hear you spin it Gary would close his eyes when Arian took a handoff in practice (PRACTICE). Gary being the "expert". Come on man...
Quote:
Seattle brought Flynn in as decent priced FA. A guy that had the playbook for 2 months beat him out for the STARTING position. Why does Keenum and all his NCAA passing records get a break for not being able to beat out the THIRD string guy? You're 2 month theory holds no water. Sorry.
And Flynn will be sitting on the bench watching Wilson at some point in the regular season. Because Pete gave Russel a ton of opportunities to show what he could do. And just FYI, Wilson is shorter than Keenum and both Russel and Case threw the ball with the exact same velocity at the combine...

That's why you need to tap the brakes on saying because Gary cut him he's never going to be an NFL QB..

TJ
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Old 09-01-2012   #140
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfreek View Post
Let me explain exactly where your logic is as faulty as a blown fuse in regards to Gary's 2 month evaluation of Case's talent (or the other 31 teams for that matter..)

Allow me to insert one name into your argument for you to chew on..





And Flynn will be sitting on the bench watching Wilson at some point in the regular season. Because Pete gave Russel a ton of opportunities to show what he could do. And just FYI, Wilson is shorter than Keenum and both Russel and Case threw the ball with the exact same velocity at the combine...

That's why you need to tap the brakes on saying because Gary cut him he's never going to be an NFL QB..

TJ
So were you out at all the practices evaluating all the opportunities Case had there - going back to OTA's and Mini-Camp?

Wilson was a 3rd round pick competing with Flynn for the starting position and had roughly the same number of pass attempts in the preseason. Keenum was a UDFA competing with Beck for the #3 QB and had exactly the same number of pass attempts in the preseason.

John Beck had the exact same number of pass attempts as Case, and he looked better (regardless of what you think, he looked better). You made the comment that if Norris had caught Case's pass, and Posey hadn't run for a TD, their stats would be the same. Why don't you say the same thing about the pass from Beck that Norris dropped? Why don't you mention Beck's catchable passes to Martin (for a pretty decent gain) and Jean (for a TD) that weren't caught?

Case may have a bright future in this league - I genuinely hope he does, and I think it's not ridiculous to believe it, but to take the approach to his offseason/preseason that you have simply shows someone who is completely incapable of evaluating QB play, someone completely unaware of his own bias, or both.
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