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Old 08-29-2012   #1
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Default REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

LINK HERE. Also, Norris and Posey (according to Posey) will play Thursday night and be under serious scrutiny for roster spots on the 53.

Quote:
Gary Kubiak said Tuesday that only John Beck and rookie Case Keenum will see action at quarterback in the Texans’ final preseason game against Minnesota on Thursday night as he tries to decide whom to keep as the third QB behind Matt Schaub and T. J. Yates.

Beck will start and play the first half. Keenum will play the third and fourth quarters. The Texans have to cut their roster to 53 players on Friday.

Because Keenum is a rookie, the former University of Houston star could be released then re-signed to the team’s practice squad next week. But he’d have to clear waivers first.

Quotes on Norris/Posey:

Quote:
Rookie receiver DeVier Posey and veteran fullback Moran Norris will see significant playing time against the Vikings.
Posey has been slowed by a sore calf muscle.

As for Norris, who’s trying to stick with the Texans for a second time after spending three seasons with the franchise from 2002 through 2005, coach Gary Kubiak said: “It’s a big game for him because we’re trying to make a decision.
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Old 08-29-2012   #2
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

I think we're definitely going with 3 QBs on the 53. I think the 3rd spot belongs to Beck right now because of his experience. It's up to Keenum to play his way onto the 53 at this point. I think he can do it, but he's got to have a huge game to do it.

I don't think Posey's spot is really in jeopardy.

Norris, otoh, has to have a big game. He doesn't have to put up big numbers but he's got to be a force in the running game. He's got to make the right reads and get some good blocks. He needs to show up in the passing game: in his blitz pickups but also getting to the right spot as an outlet receiver (even if he doesn't get targeted.)

I think this is a big game for Brock and Supernaw and I think Brock has the advantage at this point. I think Kubes would like for one of these guys to make the squad but they've got to play their way on.

I think this is a big game for Holiday. He can't have any fumbles or muffs. If he does, then K-Mart, Keo, and Manning will be our returners in the regular season.

Fangupo needs a huge game. Otherwise, I think we're going Cody and Mitchell as our NTs with Crick kicking inside on occasion.

Shelley Smith needs to show up strong or he's out.

Those are the guys I'll be watching in this game because those are the guys I think have something on the line.
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Old 08-29-2012   #3
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

I'll be watching Keenum and Posey who should be good if he stays healthy and plays hard.
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Old 08-29-2012   #4
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

I have a question about trying to stash some guys on the practice squad. If we release Keenum he has to clear waivers and then we can sign him to the PS. However, if another team wants to sign him, it would have to be on their 53 man roster, correct? In that event, would the Texans have the ability to have "first rights" to keep Keenum but it'd have to be on the 53?

I think most would agree that Keenum is in more of our long term plans than Beck. However is Beck is marginally better than Case right now I see the positives in keeping Keenum on the PS. But if another team calls him to make their squad, then maybe Kubiak can say "I can't lose this kid, let's take the risk and keep him on the 53, release Beck altogether"

Not sure if a coach would think like that though or if that's possible. Thoughts?
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Old 08-29-2012   #5
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

Not too worried about someone picking up Case. He's an unproved QB with potential, but there are quite a few of those players. Most teams have already been through a couple of these players this pre season, so my guess is that IF you're keeping someone on their PS, it's the player who knows the playbook and the player they can throw in a game if all hell breaks loose.
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Old 08-29-2012   #6
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

The big question that I'm wondering is this:

If they cut Keenum in an effort to put him on the practice squad, and some other team takes him. Does Keenum have the right to deny and stay with the Texans (if, for example he thinks Kubiak is a better QB mentor) or is it like the draft where he can only play for the team that offered?

Cause I think Case sticks around here if offered a practice squad position --- if it is an option.

Houston has been good to him..

TJ
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Old 08-29-2012   #7
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
I have a question about trying to stash some guys on the practice squad. If we release Keenum he has to clear waivers and then we can sign him to the PS. However, if another team wants to sign him, it would have to be on their 53 man roster, correct? In that event, would the Texans have the ability to have "first rights" to keep Keenum but it'd have to be on the 53?

I think most would agree that Keenum is in more of our long term plans than Beck. However is Beck is marginally better than Case right now I see the positives in keeping Keenum on the PS. But if another team calls him to make their squad, then maybe Kubiak can say "I can't lose this kid, let's take the risk and keep him on the 53, release Beck altogether"

Not sure if a coach would think like that though or if that's possible. Thoughts?
I'd never really thought about it.

Once we waive him, we basically lose the rights to him. I was under the impression that if we sign him to our practice squad, if someone then signs him to their 53, we don't get a chance to counter-offer (to the best of my knowledge). But I wonder if the agent could contact the Texans and say, "Hey, these guys are about to sign us. Do you want to get in first?"
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Old 08-29-2012   #8
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

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Originally Posted by speedfreek View Post
The big question that I'm wondering is this:

If they cut Keenum in an effort to put him on the practice squad, and some other team takes him. Does Keenum have the right to deny and stay with the Texans (if, for example he thinks Kubiak is a better QB mentor) or is it like the draft where he can only play for the team that offered?

Cause I think Case sticks around here if offered a practice squad position --- if it is an option.

Houston has been good to him..

TJ
Waivers do work like the draft, in that a claim by a team means they have the rights to that player. The player could whine and moan about not wanting to go to X city or X team, etc, but that team still owns his contract and they can do whatever they want with it.

Once the player (any player, team doesn't matter) clears waivers, they are free to sign with any team they want either as part of their 53 man squad or practice squad (assuming they have eligibility). All p-squad players make $5,700 a week, so there is no way to outbid another team for a p-squad player, except by giving him a 53 man roster spot.
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Old 08-29-2012   #9
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
I have a question about trying to stash some guys on the practice squad. If we release Keenum he has to clear waivers and then we can sign him to the PS. However, if another team wants to sign him, it would have to be on their 53 man roster, correct? In that event, would the Texans have the ability to have "first rights" to keep Keenum but it'd have to be on the 53?

I think most would agree that Keenum is in more of our long term plans than Beck. However is Beck is marginally better than Case right now I see the positives in keeping Keenum on the PS. But if another team calls him to make their squad, then maybe Kubiak can say "I can't lose this kid, let's take the risk and keep him on the 53, release Beck altogether"

Not sure if a coach would think like that though or if that's possible. Thoughts?
If your asking if a team can recall waivers on a player similar to baseball, no they can't. They might be able to actually put in a claim on a player they've just waived (not certain), but not only would they be at the mercy of all the NFL teams ahead of them in the waiver claim order, they would be the stupidest team in the history of the NFL.
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Old 08-29-2012   #10
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

If that's correct, then there's no way you let Case get to the PS. He will be picked up. He declined other offers to sign with the Texans as a FA. And, as has been mentioned before, Case still has unproven potential. Beck is who he is..

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Old 08-29-2012   #11
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

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Originally Posted by speedfreek View Post
If that's correct, then there's no way you let Case get to the PS. He will be picked up. He declined other offers to sign with the Texans as a FA. And, as has been mentioned before, Case still has unproven potential. Beck is who he is..

TJ
He declined offers to be on a 90 man training camp roster. Claiming him off of waivers means you put him on the 53 man active roster.

As far as that unproven potential, it is as unproven going into tonight's game as it was in April when all 32 teams chose to pass on him numerous times - just as they will again if he's put on waivers.
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Old 08-29-2012   #12
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

Agreed. I don't think any team will want un undrafted rookie that couldn't be with them all training camp to be part of their 53 man roster. He can't really help them the first year without knowing the play book and the receivers so that gamble is just way too big. If the Texans want to stash him on the PS they almost certainly will be able to.

But it doesn't matter who will be our 3 QB... Those guys never actually play when it counts, do they
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Old 08-29-2012   #13
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

Does anyone think Beck will be picked up if he's cut?
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Old 08-29-2012   #14
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

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Does anyone think Beck will be picked up if he's cut?
I don't.
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Old 08-29-2012   #15
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

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I don't.
I don't either. So to me, if a QB goes down, you have to go out and sign someone anyway. If you think Keenum fits into your long term development plans, or at least want another year to coach him up, you keep him and cut Beck. Beck or someone like him will be available if you lose a QB, and you'll still have Keenum.

Keenum needs to show something though. I wish they'd play him in the first half and play Beck in the second half. That indicates to me they're leaning Beck.
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Old 08-29-2012   #16
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
I don't either. So to me, if a QB goes down, you have to go out and sign someone anyway. If you think Keenum fits into your long term development plans, or at least want another year to coach him up, you keep him and cut Beck. Beck or someone like him will be available if you lose a QB, and you'll still have Keenum.

Keenum needs to show something though. I wish they'd play him in the first half and play Beck in the second half. That indicates to me they're leaning Beck.
I don't think it's out of the question that they keep Case - Beck is my guess as to who I think it will be (prior to the final preseason game), but I certainly don't see it as an absolute. I do see Case making it through waivers unclaimed (if waived of course) as absolute, and that's all I said.

Now with that in mind, the reason my guess is that they keep Beck is because I believe Beck will be able to help them more in the 2012 season if the need arises. I also think it's very clear that Case has more Long-term upside than Beck. To me, Case is why the practice squad exists - keep the guy that can help you more this season, and develop the guy who might be able to help you more next season, and more seasons after that.

In my mind, Beck on the roster and Case on the PS is the NFL equivalent of having your cake and eating it too.
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Old 08-29-2012   #17
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

I probably should have added that if one of them is gonna get picked up, I think it's more likely to be Beck.

Beck's been in the league for 6 years, and the Texans are his 4th team. While on the surface, that sounds horrible, what it means to me is that there's lots of coaches out there who have watched him practice, and gotten to know him to some degree. As much as the NFL coaching fraternity seems to value familiarity, I think that gives Beck the advantage when it comes to who's more likely to get picked up between him and Case.
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Old 08-29-2012   #18
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

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Keenum needs to show something though. I wish they'd play him in the first half and play Beck in the second half. That indicates to me they're leaning Beck.
I thought that same thing, but here's good news for those rooting for Case:

Case, by virtue of playing in the second half, SHOULD have an easier go of things out there...at that point in the game, Case is playing almost exclusively against 3rd stringers. Downside: He's probably playing WITH 3rd stringers, and those guys are going to be sloppy toward the end of the game because they are who they are: Sloppy, unproven 3rd/4th stringers.

In other news, I think Shelley Smith is a goner no matter what. I think Kubiak will look at the body of work and just cut the guy on Friday.

Norris has to make key blocks and show consistency of full effort and good identification of which block to make...or I could see Kubiak cutting Norris and just running Casey as the FB and saying to hell with trying to have a full-time, bonafide fullback out there. I think Kubiak is a bit disappointed with the FB situation, he has to be, IMO. Lost Leach, Vickers was a major bust, and now Norris is sort of snoozing his way through camp.

Posey, I think, is on the bubble. He looks a bit sleepy out there, too. He and Case need to connect and put on a show. But with the OL they'll have to work with, I don't think it bodes well for both Case and Posey. IMO.

Grimes outta' get major play in this game. I think this is where he outshines Forsett and passes him on that last lap to the finish line.

Holliday will get cut if he has a bad game. I can feel it in my bones, he's not a lock for the 53...and that's because he's bumbled a few times in the previous game. Kubiak needs stability there, and Holliday has to have error-free returns. Ball security has to be the key focus of Holliday now, rather than trying to hit home runs. He showed he can hit a home run. He has to show he can field and MAINTAIN possession on the small to medium returns. Correct? Otherwise, I'm with PN when he says Kubiak will not hesitate to cut the guy.

I don't think any of the TEs make the 53. Brock nor Supernaw. It's going to be OD, Graham, and Casey. Unless there is just some huge breakout performance by Brock or Supernaw.

Mysteries to watch and solve:

1. QB3: Beck or Case???

2. RB3: Grimes or Forsett?

3. Posey?

4. TE: Brock, Supernaw, or neither of them?

5. Norris?

6. Holliday's return game

7. Will the punter and kicker perform consistently enough to make Kubiak comfortable with them both...or does he cut and re-sign like he did to the two punters Maynard and Hartmann last preseason after 4th game? Graham's job, and the punter's job too, are not safe yet.
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Old 08-29-2012   #19
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

I'll have to say that Graham is pretty set with Bullock not an option to return. Our punter, with his performance (also as holder) here thus far and his overall long-term pretty darn consistent NFL stats is unlikely to blow his spot, even if his foot falls off this game.........as long as it can be re-attached before the 1st regular season game.

Also, especially is Beck looks like he is playing for the other team this week, I would not be shocked at all that we get a last minute Kubiak decision to keep Keenum, even knowing the potential risks involved.
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Old 08-29-2012   #20
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Default Re: REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
I'll have to say that Graham is pretty set with Bullock not an option to return. Our punter, with his performance (also as holder) here thus far and his overall ong-term pretty darn consistent NFL stats is unlikely to blow his spot, even if his foot falls off this game.........as long as it can be re-attached before the 1st regular season game.

Also, especially is Beck looks like he is playing for the other team this week, I would not be shocked at all that we get a last minute Kubiak decision to keep Keenum, even knowing the potential risks involved.
Oops, I did forget that Bullock is I.R.'d so scratch it off my list. Thanks for reminding me. Been a long, long day today.
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